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Re: Rock hard hoof

LJ Friedman
 

i use a dremel for my own calloused feet. lol a little


--
LJ Friedman San Diego nov 2014

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/LJ%20and%20Jesse


Re: Need advice please re Savannah’s Jan 22 trim photos

LJ Friedman
 

what are u using for pain? alcar? prevacox? etc


--
LJ Friedman San Diego nov 2014

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/LJ%20and%20Jesse


Re: Rock hard hoof

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

I use a full size, 20v angle grinder with a 4.5in, 40 grit flap disc much of the time - which makes really quick work of things.

I've used a 10.8v cordless dremel, with the coarsest flap wheel available, or one of the sanding bands, where the full size angle grinder is just too large so can't be as precise as needed. Worn wheels/bands don't do the job.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Need advice please re Savannah’s Jan 22 trim photos

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Hi Pat,

Frustrating for both you and Savannah, I'm sure, as you've done so much to help her get better. Because Savannah is PPID/IR all discussions regarding her should remain on the main group - including hoof ones. Please post a quick note on the man group that includes a link to her photos and I can take a look for you.

Her frogs aren't wider and healthier because she isn't landing heel first, so isn't developing them. They are narrow and long because they have migrated forward with the rest of the foot. The white line is a seam between the wall laminae and the sole which you can't see looking from the front. What you are seeing is likely part of the laminar wedge material. If you can see something that looks like the white line, it's possible the sole has been pulled forward and up by the laminar wedge in the toe.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Need advice please re Savannah’s Jan 22 trim photos

Pat Gauvreau <pgauvreau@...>
 

Hoping to get advice with regards to how Savannah’s trims are going.  We must be doing something wrong. Still very underrun and never seems to be any improvement. Can’t seem to bring the heels back after all this time.  Soles are VERY thick (over an inch at the toe). Toes are kept very short but never grow down at proper angle. Seem to always grow forward instead of down.  Frogs are very narrow and not wide across heels and stretched very forward almost to tip of toe. No laminitic lines visible. White line can’t be seen from underside where it’s supposed to be. Can only see whiteline from looking straight on from front of toe.  What’s up with that? It does look tight though. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
Trimmer didn’t take pics standing on board this time so hope you can still see what I mean. If necessary I can take more pics. 
She’s been sore on and off almost all winter.  Boots and leg warmers on most of the time. Gas and loose manure have also been a problem although her “tested” hay has been from the same supplier. I increased her pergoloide to compensate for winter rise, but I think pain affects her appetite which keeps her from eating her required meds and Mad Barn minerals (which she’s never liked). 
I just received an email from a member whose horse lost this battle yesterday.  She’ll probably post the sad news to ECIR Group when she can come to grips with the agony she’s going through. It’s the long journey of hope ending. Such emptiness.  Loneliness.  Silence.  My heart aches for her.  

--
Pat and Savannah


Re: Rock hard hoof

 

What dremel and dremel head have you used?  


Re: Rock hard hoof

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Years ago, I remember my farriers complaining about hooves that were too hard to use a knife on. Soaking can definitely help if you can mange it.

Power tools, however, don't care so adding a grinder or dremel with a flap disc to your tool bag can make your life a lot easier.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Rock hard hoof

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Jessica, Deb is right, the general advice is to soak the hoof to soften it before trimming.  You'll have to experiment with how long to soak.  I feel your pain though, my boy's feet get rock hard in the summer when it's dry and my hoof knives just aren't sharp enough!

--
Kirsten Rasmussen
Kitimat, BC, Canada


Re: Thickness of the hoof capsule

Maria Duran
 

Thank you very much Lavinia.


Re: Thickness of the hoof capsule

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Wall thickness in a healthy hoof will be fairly symmetrical all the way around.

Too many horses have flared side walls, which are thinner, separated and more brittle while the toe is too long so has some degree of laminar wedge making it appear to be vastly thicker. Or if the toe is actually at the correct horizontal length, the walls still have some degree of detachment so are thinner.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Rock hard hoof

Deb Walker
 

Would a soaking boot work to soften her hoof? I've had this issue with Scotty's hooves in the past as well, and yes, wearing boots all the time seem to exasperate the situation.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R & PPID
Northwest Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Re: Sinking and coffin bone rotation

Maria Duran
 

You are amazingly generous Bobbie!

María.


Re: Sinking and coffin bone rotation

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

It always saddens me to hear this but it can be the kindest option when the needed diagnosis and management changes can't be implemented.

Thank-you for trying to help the little guy, Bobbie.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Sinking and coffin bone rotation

Bobbie Day
 

The pony that I was speaking of was PTS, I tried to talk the owner in joining to get opinions as to why this happened but I was told he was in too much pain, I certainly agree that you need to consider quality of life but if it were me I would at least be interested in knowing why it happened in the first place.
I sent a pair of boots hoping he could be made more comfortable until she could explore options. I don’t know this person or the horses history so I’m choosing not to judge but I must admit I’m a little disappointed that she didn’t join and take advantage of all the knowledge here.
Thanks Maria, Lavinia


Re: Sole hardeners

Maria Duran
 

Thanks for warning me Cindy, I know only one horse on plusfoot (IR and foundered time ago) his hooves are as hard as rock. He is moving great and has a good trim in my opinion. He is being applied the lotion once per week. I believe it is a matter of dosing and balancing humidity, not too dry nor too wet. 

I will give it a try and see what happens.

María.


Re: Sinking and coffin bone rotation

Maria Duran
 

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 07:18 PM, Lavinia Fiscaletti wrote:
 Diarrhea is an effect/result of endotoxemia, not a cause.
True, thanks for the correction.

María.


Re: Sinking and coffin bone rotation

Maria Duran
 

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 03:18 PM, Bobbie Day wrote:
Thanks Maria,
This particular horse foundered , apparently left out to pasture and has coffin bone starting to exit.
IR/Cushing’s was my first thought but was told tests were all negative. BUT upon digging further it was just a panel not ones required for proper diagnosis.
I’m just curious because I know a lot of ppl that keep their horses on pasture almost year around that have never foundered.
So something has to be the culprit, weather it be IR or something else?
Maybe he wasn´t properly diagnosed.


Re: Sinking and coffin bone rotation

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

- Endotoxemia: from whatever cause (grain overload, retained placenta, illness of some sort). Diarrhea is an effect/result of endotoxemia, not a cause.
- Opposing limb laminitis: one leg is being overloaded due to the inability of the companion leg to bear its fair share of the weight.
- Diseases: Lyme, for example, can cause nasty laminitis in-and-of-itself, with no underlying endocrinopathic issues.
- Mechanics: trim doesn't tightly support the internal structures. Whether the animal is shod or bare, the trim needs to be correct. All consistently shod horses will show some amount of sinking over time due to being completely suspended from their laminae all the time, with no compensatory help from the frog/soles/bars. If these already compromised feet then suffer an additional insult of some sort, more severe rotation/sinking will occur.
- Ingesting something toxic: selenium overload can cause hoof capsules to slough off completely.
- Starvation: affects every system. Combined with the neglect of the mechanics that usually accompanies this, the feet can fall apart in multiple ways.
- Environment: standing constantly submerged in urine/manure can eat a hoof away from the outside inward, destroying the hoof capsule.

Neglect will show up in a variety of ways. In this scenario, IR/PPID are definitely a possibility as there hasn't actually been any testing done to confirm/negate those possibilities. If the hooves weren't being trimmed, mechanical issues likely contributed. Something toxic being ingested is also a possibility, although less likely if regular blood work panels were done (CBC, Chem Profile) and results came back with no red flags. IF starvation is involved, that's another stressor.

If a horse doesn't have elevated insulin levels (isn't IR), the unpredictable sugar levels in pasture will not be an issue.
Although we are hyper-aware of this issue, there are many horses out there that have no problems with IR. There are also a lot of horses that may not have foundered significantly but are having less severe problems that just haven't been properly diagnosed.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Sinking and coffin bone rotation

Bobbie Day
 

Thanks Maria,
This particular horse foundered , apparently left out to pasture and has coffin bone starting to exit.
IR/Cushing’s was my first thought but was told tests were all negative. BUT upon digging further it was just a panel not ones required for proper diagnosis.
I’m just curious because I know a lot of ppl that keep their horses on pasture almost year around that have never foundered.
So something has to be the culprit, weather it be IR or something else?


Re: Sole hardeners

Cindy Q
 

My farrier did warn me long ago (when I asked him what he thought of it) that he found keratex was making hooves too dry and brittle and therefore prone to cracks. Probably there are some cases where it doesn't get there and there are some cases where it does. Your mileage may vary. We are in a very very humid and warm climate pretty much all year round.

--
Cindy
Singapore, Sep 2017

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