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Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Karen Hocking
 

Glad to hear your horse is improving Heidi! I hope that continues :)

Cheers
Karen


Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Karen Hocking
 

Thanks Lavinia for the information. We are slowly drawing the gunk out and he goes from totally lame to being able to put pressure on that hoof again. Will continue to soak and poultice until he is 'back to normal'. The vet did warn us there could be multiple pockets - and knowing my guy, there will be lol

We are getting rain here again but the new yard is holding up better than the old one - water runs off a lot better and it is completely dry in his shelter. Fingers crossed things are on the up now!

Cheers
Karen - Dubbo NSW Australia


Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Good news, Heidi. Hope he continues to improve.

Thanks for the update

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Heidi Wright
 

Thank you Lavinia for all those great suggestions.  The plastic wrap is a great idea that I had forgotten about.  Yesterday the heat became more concentrated around the coronary band and not very warm on the hoof, so that is an improvement, and he is 99% sound now.  

Thanks!  Heidi


Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

The idea is to keep the poultice from drying out so you want to seal in away from the drying effects of the air. Ditto with the hoof itself, as keeping it softer helps provide an easier path for the abscess to travel out. With thin soles, you need to balance the need for softening with the need not to compromise the sole any more than it already is.

Plastic wrap will keep everything from drying out and it's readily available and inexpensive. You can cover the coronary band with cotton soaked in epsom salt solution, then plastic wrap over the top of that to keep everything moist. A diaper over the top of everything will insulate, pad and absorb anything that drains out. Then stick it in a boot if you have on that fits - or just use vet wrap and duct tape.

To soak, you can  use a soaking boot: pull the boot on, pour the solution in, cinch/duct tape it closed around the pastern and let the horse wander around or put him in a stall with hay to distract him. I've used the Clean Trax boots to soak - they are a tall boot that goes up over the knee, with a nylon cinch strap at the top. Put the boot(s) on empty, then add the soaking solution. Then I attach a lead line to the strap, run it over the withers and attach it to the other side of the boot strap. This keeps the boot from sliding down without you having to watch it constantly, plus it allows the horse to move around a bit instead of having to stand still in one spot.

I wouldn't recommend casting an abscessing foot as that makes it harder to access it for treatment. Plus, an abscess is going to follow the path of least resistance and what that path is depends on where the thing is located inside the foot. Gentle movement, which will mechanically create expansion and contraction inside the foot will help get it moving. Jiaogulan, which helps increase circulation, can also help encourage abscesses to come to a head.

Don't know that there are any statistics on abscesses resolving without draining out. Some may drain out around the frog and not get noticed at all.

NSAID use will slow maturation of an abscess so should only be considered if the horse is so sore it won't eat/drink well.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Heidi Wright
 

Karen, Lavinia,

I am dealing with a similar issue - an abscess that burst out the coronary band and won't resolve.  Still has heat around the coronary band on the lateral side and that heat extends half way down the hoof wall from the coronary band.  He is fairly sound - only shows minor lameness on it but knowing it is still hot I know its still brewing.  

Lavinia, what is your prefered way to wrap a hoof after poulticing?  I have been wrapping thin guaze wrap with vet wrap over it, and then booting him for turn out.  His soles are thin so I always turn out in boots.  Is there a better way?

Also, with a coronary band abscess, have you ever used casting  the lower hoof to "push" the abscess up and out?  

You mentioned that sometimes they just resolve without bursting.  Is that rare?  That would be great if that happened.

Karen, good luck with your horse - it may be a good thing it came out the heel where gravity can help you vs the coronary band like I am dealing with.  Plus my horse HATES to be soaked and makes it very difficult to stand for 20-30 minutes.

Heidi


Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Karen,

Abscesses can be miserable. Sometimes they drain completely the first time, sometimes not. The abscess can be a single pocket or more than one separate pocket, which may drain at different times or may get reabsorbed without ever exiting out. Oral antibiotics won't help as they can't penetrate into the walled off cavity that the abscess is contained in. Unless the horse won't eat/drink, resist the temptation to use any NSAIDs as they will slow down maturation of the abscess and actually prolong its resolution.

Soak the affected foot in epsom salt dissolved in hot water, twice daily, then wrap the entire hoof to keep the moisture sealed in. You can slather a poultice like Numotizine on the sole/frog and around the coronary band to help draw while the foot is wrapped. No need to confine the horse to a stall as gentle exercise like walking/turnout is fine and will help stimulate circulation, which will further encourage the abscess to drain.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Karen Hocking
 

Hi all

My horse had an abscess burst through his heel about a fortnight ago - vet came out the day before because he couldn't walk, antibiotics, poultice and bandaged. It burst through his heel bulb that night and the bandage/poultice was kept on for a few days to try and drain as much as possible. The bandage came off about 8 days ago, I cleaned with epsom salt solution, and sprayed with antiseptic. (He has thrush from the recent rains and half the frog has come off in that foot as well). He had been going fine until lunch time today - he was a little hard to clean his feet out yesterday after I took him for a short walk (just with halter and lead, I didn't ride him and we only went about 1km) and didn't want to put all his weight on that foot. At lunch time today, he was lame again on that foot  - I'm guessing another abscess or the previous one hasn't drained completely? I haven't really dealt with abscesses before - what should I be doing to help him?

- Karen
April 2020, Dubbo NSW Australia


Re: Shakira: Hoof Pics and XRays

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Larissa,

Thank-you for taking this one on. This girl is lucky to have been placed in your care.

No way to know whether she is IR or not unless there has been blood work pulled on her. Being an Arab does make it more likely. It is something that would be a good thing to definitively rule in/out going forward so that it doesn't inadvertently become a problem moving forward.

Certainly a huge improvement in her trim since that first photo - which was just sickening. Still have a ways to go, which obviously isn't being helped by her (understandable) reluctance to have her feet handled. Getting her diet tightly mineral balanced would have major benefits for her as it would make sure she has all the necessary building blocks to grow better quality horn. In the files on the main group is a list of people who do mineral balancing:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/HAY%20BALANCING.pdf

Getting the mechanics tightened up is also going to be a factor. You're still dealing with long toes, underrun heels, likely thin soles. The front feet HPAs looked to be in relatively good alignment. Hind HPAs are broken back, which means you need to get more height in the back half of the feet relative to the front half.

It would be a good idea to get a new set of radiographs at this point, as the last ones were done in Feb 2020. It appears as if many of the rad views have been reversed, so it would be helpful if they are presented and labeled correctly (this is a problem from when the rads were taken).

It sounds as if trims are only being done at 6+ week intervals, which is really too long an interval to get (and keep) a physiologically correct trim in place.With the pathologies that are still present, a 3-4 week schedule would make more sense: less correction is needed; less stress on Shakira as the sessions are shorter; maintain better connections as they aren't allowed to be damaged by imbalanced overgrowth.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Shakira: Hoof Pics and XRays

 

Forget about soaking boots. She is Not ready for that.  Get a few tubs of ToMorrow.  Easy to use.  It has a tip applicator.  Try to clean first, go to another hoof.  Do the Round the world. Then on the second go around, put the applicator in the crack and give a small squeeze.  ToMorrow really works!  If you can do this daily for a week, you will see a healthier frog.

Waterhole rituals are just games you can play with her.  Take a chair and Sit in her paddock/pasture.  wait for her to come to you.  If she touches you, then you can touch her back.  Scratch, use a groom brush but you must stay in the chair.

Another is approach her, get close and offer the back of your had to her nose.  Wait for her to touch you.  Then find a scratch spot.  Get her happy then walk away.  You can do this over a few days or in one day. After you walk 10-15 feet away turn and look at her.  Ask her to come to you.  If she moves a few feet, you can take a few feet to her.  The idea is to get her to see you as a safe/happy place to be.

There are many more. Look up Water hole rituals


Re: Shakira: Hoof Pics and XRays

larissa.supnik@...
 

Hi Diann,

Yes, she lives on property with my gelding and sees me 3x a day for meals + any trips I make outside to visit her or the other horse.  I try to clean her feet every day to get her used to having her feet handled and to keep the mud out of her frogs/give them a chance to heal and grow and try to get a halter on her, brush her, do something maybe 2-4 times a week depending on what work allows.

I didn't follow this: "First treat fro serious butt crack infection."  Is that treat the infection she's nursing in most of her frogs?  Currently I try to keep them clean and rinse them with trifectant when she'll let me.  I don't think I could get her to tolerate a soaking boot just yet.  Any other thoughts?  Some days she's very cooperative and some days she wants me to just go away and leave her to her own devices.

I haven't heard of "the water hole rituals".  What's that?

At the moment, her itchy spot is her mane/head/ears, and as long as I don't anything with me, she will sometimes ask for scratches if I'm out (eg. if I go out to check fences) and she's particularly itchy.

Thanks and take care,
Larissa


Re: Shakira: Hoof Pics and XRays

larissa.supnik@...
 

Hi Patricia,

Thanks!

I based her current diet from a friend with Arabians who does a great job managing horsey diets.  Should I post her diet over there for folks to check over?

Take care,
Larissa


Re: Shakira: Hoof Pics and XRays

 

Greetings!  Is this mare at your farm?  Do you see her everyday?  If so, i can offer ideas for getting her mind on you.  I am a pro trimmer, but others can help with the hoof issues.  First treat fro serious butt crack infection. 

The first thing you and anyone who wishes to help, need to do is get her confidant about humans.  Are you familiar with The water hole rituals?  She needs to Choose to be with you!  This will take a LOT of time! Build trust.  Find her itchy spot.  If you want more info, i will love to explain more details.


Diann Kuzma
One Hoof at a Time
Medford OR
Joined 2018


Re: Shakira: Hoof Pics and XRays

Patricia Evans
 

Sorry, forgot to add the link! 
-- 

main@ECIR.groups.io

Patricia 
North central Florida
July 7 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patricia%20and%20Dancer%20and%20Nathan
Dancer:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=66069

Nathan:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=94152


Re: Shakira: Hoof Pics and XRays

Patricia Evans
 

So sorry, sent an empty message! Blessings to you for taking on this girl! You have certainly changed her world. I'm sure the moderators will give you lots of information, but you can join the main group so you have access to all the wonderful info available. Since she is part Arabian, you would probably do her another world of good to get her on an ECIR diet. There is soooo much info available to help you help her. Good luck with your girl!!!!
--
Patricia 
North central Florida
July 7 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patricia%20and%20Dancer%20and%20Nathan
Dancer:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=66069

Nathan:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=94152


Shakira: Hoof Pics and XRays

larissa.supnik@...
 

Hi folks,

A friend recommended you for help for appropriately trim a lamanitic horse.

A big of background on my girl:

Shakira is a 14 years old, ~14.3hh, 3/4 Arabian.  She was rescued from an intense neglect situation in February by the local animal shelter where she had been physically trapped in her stall for 5+ years.  Photo of her when rescued included in the album to show what her feet looked like 3 months ago.  As far as I'm aware she hadn't been handled in those 5+ years, nor had she been trimmed.  As a result she has mechanical laminitis in at least one foot, and fairly messed up feet all around.  As far as the shelter was aware, she's not IR.  She was trimmed twice at the shelter under sedation to start to bring her feet back under control.

She's been in my care for ~3 weeks.  We had a failed attempt to trim her one week ago because I was unable to give administer the oral dose of dormosedan gel at the farrier's request.  (The farrier is currently the same farrier who had worked on her at the shelter).  However, doing additional work with her this week, I believe she can be trimmed without sedation by someone with patience.  She's improved a lot over the three weeks she's been here on foot handling, but still has a ways to go.

Here are the photos I was able to get along with the X-Rays provided to me by the shelter.  Apologies on the quality.  I got the pictures as best she would let me.  You can see her left feet are her "worst" - unfortunately that also means it's the one she wanted photographed the least.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/CthS1FK199AED4fN8

If there are any pictures it would be particularly useful to improve upon, please let me know and I'll see what she'll give me.

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Larissa


Re: Not urgent - arginine

Kim Leitch
 

Just for the sake of accuracy, d,l does not mean designed in lab, but refers to mirror image isomers (think of how your hands are mirror images of each other), d being a right handed molecule, l being left handed. D,l arginine would be a mixture of both forms. L-arginine is the useful form, so if using the mixed form, there is less active arginine. 
--
Kim 10-2014

Clover, SC

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Grits%20-%20Eeyore%20-%20Dually

Photo album Grits https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1314

Photo album Eeyore https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6586&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Dually https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9046&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Bella https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photosearch?q=kim+and+bella
 




Re: Not urgent - arginine

Trisha DePietro
 

If you are reading a label and it is listed as dL-arginine it is synthetic. I remember the dL in my head as "designed in a lab" therefore not natural....:)
--
Trisha DePietro
Aug 2018
NH
Dolly and Hope's Case Histories 
Dolly's Photos 
Hope's Photos 
Ω


Re: Hoof pics and xrays

Eraffell@...
 

Thank you. Testing was not done as fasting samples. Xrays are December 2019 but there should be more recent ones from April 2020 in the album? 


I am trying my best to remove him from grass but stabling 24/7 causes stiffness due to arthritis so I’m in a battle. I am muzzling and adding soaked hay out whilst the track is being eaten down further by other horses. 


Re: Hoof pics and xrays

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Hi Erika,

Was Robbie's blood work run on fasting samples? The first set of results had him as compensated IR. Sorry, there is no indication in his history as to what the circumstances were.

The rads and pix show toes that are somewhat too long, soles that are thinner than ideal and underrun heels. His HPA's are broken back, which is going to put continuous tension on his tendons/ligaments and all joints above the foot. Coffin bones are all ground parallel.

Are the radiographs dated 12-01 from Dec of 2019 or from Jan 2020? It looks like there was bit of a transposition of numbers when they were labeled.

If putting him on grass results in foot tenderness, it isn't recommended that he go out on grass (I know, difficult situation).

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support

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