Date   

Re: lameness

Josephine Trott
 

HI LJ
they're more likely to resist lifting the left front if the right front is painful bearing weight.  Same for a hind hoof pain - if the pain is in the right hind they will resist bearing all their weight on the right hind and won't want to lift the left hind.  If it's so severe that they barely want to put any weight on, say, their right front, then they would be extremely unbalanced if you tried to lift their right hind because then they'd be trying to carry all their weight on their left front and left hind.
If you're talking about a mild lameness that you can only see at the trot, it's best to have an expert evaluate the horse for head bob and 'hip hike' (best observed from behind the horse).  Head bob can sometimes come with a hind limb lameness - for example it could indicate a front right or a rear right lameness but head bobbing is more typical of a front limb lameness (bobs down when the sound front foot hits the ground).  The hip hike is typical of a hind limb lameness but you need to be really good at lameness evaluations to see it.
Best
Josie

DAvis CA 06/09


lameness

LJ Friedman
 

question about detecting lameness.

If a horse is off ,,for example on his right front foot, which foot in the rear would alert us to this problem. For example when the horses off on the right front you he would not want to lift a rear leg because that will put weight on the right front. Is it the RH  or the lLH,  when there is a problem in the right front as an example, 
--
LJ Friedman San Diego nov 2014

 

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/LJ%20and%20Jesse

 

 


Re: Need suggestions on Upcoming Trim and any additional diet changes on Fontane

Tracie W
 

Hello:

As a new member with a 25 yr old Miniature that has Cushings, I suspect is IR,  has foundered in the past (approx. 15 yrs ago) and has had chronic laminitis issues these last few years and recently his second bad abscess to the same areas and foot in less than a year, I would appreciate any feedback and assistance regarding trim and anything else to help him.  

I did completely change his feeding, which I know now was a major contributor to everything this little guy has gone thru and is going thru.  I had my hay analyzed recently and have been implementing  soaked beet pulp with recommended supplements and minerals.  I am starting to see some improvement now having started all of these changes in the last three weeks.

I would appreciate any assistance you can offer me to help him and improve the quality of his life.
Thanks for reading- 
Tracie Wang


Re: Hoof photos for Red. Hoof wall is "peeling"!!

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Agree that the trimming/shoeing has likely been a major contributor to the problems in these feet. The issues are fairly common in OTTB horses. Agree that more frequent trims are definitely the way to go when rehabbing.

Based on the radiographs, he is definitely high-low, with good RF bony column alignment and no excess heel height in evidence. The coffin bone has a nice palmer angle.  It's the LF that is more problematic trim-wise as it has a broken back HPA and ground-parallel coffin bone. As there are no pix of the soles, it's impossible to say anything about what may be happening there.

A Sweeney shoulder is caused by damage to the suprascapular nerve, which runs over the front part of the scapula and provides the nerve supply to two major muscles that support the shoulder joint. When the nerve is injured, these muscles are unable to function normally and will undergo atrophy, which can occur very rapidly. The condition can be chronic or acute. Due to the muscle atrophy, it causes the shoulder to partially dislocate to the outside when the horse weights the leg. The chronic form was common when horses were used extensively for pulling. Now, it is more likely to be caused by a kick form another horse or impact of the point of the shoulder with an immovable object when the horse is in motion - think tree or post. A horse with the condition is unusable until the damage heals, which can take 6-8 months on average.

Overstretching of the DDFT is most likely to lead to tearing/rupturing of the tendon itself. Differences in the muscling of the shoulders of club footed horses is largely due to the differences in way the horse weights each limb and the way each limb is used rather than from damage to the nerves.

Really need to see a full set of labeled hoof pix - with true laterals/dorsals/sole and sole plane shots -  to be able to make a more thorough assessment.

Sorry, attachments aren't supported here - need to put any photos into an album.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Hoof photos for Red. Hoof wall is "peeling"!!

Sherlene Turner
 

Hi Emma,
Don't worry too much about the poor hoof quality at this stage.  Just keep the rough edges and leverage off.  Though the feet aren't labelled, I'm assuming they are fronts.  You might have a high/low issue, but I don't think so.  It seems just like your horse has one bound foot in the form of a club hoof.  It appears to be clubby due to being bound in the shoe I expect.  Many club hooves are created by metal peripheral shoes in my experience.  There are genetic cases, but I definitely think it is worth a try to rehab this hoof.    You can see by the compression lines where the pressure is located.  The hairline also dips in the middle with pillars jammed.  Some photos of the palmar /behind view to check the heels would help if possible. I have an arabian with hooves that were very bound after being put in shoes and his heels look similar and I am trimming him the same way to cause the internal foot to move back - to unjam.  I would take pressure off the pillars and quarters alternatively at each trim and would be taking off some of the bars that are digging into the sensitive sole.  Read the pressure lines on the hoof wall and take down the corresponding areas of the hoof and give the bars room to come down as the internal foot unjams. Sometimes it will be pillars and sometimes quarters as the internal foot moves back. Don't remove any heel despite that being the very thing that farriers do with a clubby hoof.  That heel height is to protect the DDFT from being overstretched and forming a sweeny shoulder.  When you relieve the pressure on the internal foot and thus on the DDFT, that heel will wear away without any problems.  

I rehabbed a clubby footed OTTB successfully over 9 months with fortnightly trims.  This mare was fast but had been 'retired' from racing and I expect it was from the club foot pain.  The mare was currently being used for pony club activities but she could not continue to jump after the 2nd round of show-jumping due to pain in her club hoof and shoulder.  I was able to successfully rehab the club foot and the mare was then able to regularly compete in show-jumping without any issues. She competed barefoot too.  I'm not boasting here.  I'm just trying to help you help your horse.  Photo attached of the mare whose club foot I rehabbed.

I hope this helps.

Sherlene 
Klemens


On Fri, May 29, 2020 at 9:51 AM <emmapote@...> wrote:
I'd appreciate thoughts on what is happening to Red's feet. He has been barefoot now for about 2 months (was shod all around). He had severe hoof inflammation following a short trim a couple weeks after going barefoot but has made good progress. He went outside for a short while today in a small paddock with not too hard footing but stomping at flies. His feet were very broken up when he came in as though the hoof wall is peeling off the foot. He seems to be walking okay but obviously I am concerned. 

Here is the link: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=247734

Emma Pote 
Ontario Canada
2020


--
Sherlene Klemens
Bundaberg, Qld, Australia
joined 2012


Re: xrays posted. Looking for treatment recommendations

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Emma,

None of that chipping is anything to worry about, just rasp it smooth and lightly bevel the bottom edges under. As the health of his feet improves and the trim removes the excess toe length that will stop. Likely his hind feet weren't as compromised (very common) so they didn't split as much. If the weather has fluctuated from dry to wet, that could also be a factor.

Would you please combine all his photos/radiographs into one album, then add that link to your signature so that it's easy to find them when needed. Appreciate your help with this bit of housekeeping.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Hoof photos for Red. Hoof wall is "peeling"!!

emmapote@...
 

I'd appreciate thoughts on what is happening to Red's feet. He has been barefoot now for about 2 months (was shod all around). He had severe hoof inflammation following a short trim a couple weeks after going barefoot but has made good progress. He went outside for a short while today in a small paddock with not too hard footing but stomping at flies. His feet were very broken up when he came in as though the hoof wall is peeling off the foot. He seems to be walking okay but obviously I am concerned. 

Here is the link: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=247734

Emma Pote 
Ontario Canada
2020


Re: xrays posted. Looking for treatment recommendations

emmapote@...
 

Thank you so much Lavinia. That is all very helpful. I will post some hoof pics shortly from today. I would love to hear your thoughts. He went outside in a small paddock with not too hard footing. He stomps at flies and came in with his feet very very broken up. The wall appears to be peeling off the hoof. He has been out of shoes for about 2 months now and so far has had only slight chipping. I would appreciate your thoughts on what is happening with the hoof. His hind feet did not do this when he was barefoot behind last summer and stomping at flies all day long!!

Thank you again.
Emma


Re: xrays posted. Looking for treatment recommendations

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

HI Emma,

Thanks for adding the link to the rads.

From the rads, I don't believe you are/were dealing with laminitis as much as a trim that thinned his soles to the point of making him very sore. There is no widening of the horn-lamellar zone that would indicate any laminitis issue but there is a slight dishing of the walls in the lower third of the hoof capsule that is consistent with a trim that is leaaving the toes horizontally too long. This is not the same thing as lowering the overall vertical height of the foot.

Soles are too thin, toes are a farther out ahead of where they should be so need to be backed up to set the breakover in proper alignment with the bony column. There is some High-Low present, which means one foot is more upright and narrower (RF) while the other is flatter, wider, heels underrun to some degree (LF). The bony column alignment of the RF is good while the alignment of the LF has a broken back HPA.

Trim needs to preserve all sole, back the toes up, leave current heel height as is. Trim cycles should be more frequent - no more than 4-5 week intervals as any longer means he outgrows any correction that are made.

All of these issues are common and are relatively simple to fix by getting the trim correct. You don't need shoes to fix this. Recommend putting Red in boots and pads to help with protecting his thin soles from abrasion until they have had time to develop more depth.

If you would like specific mark-ups for the trim, you'll need to take a fulls et of hoof photos and add them to Red's album. Here's what's needed:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki/1472

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: xrays posted. Looking for treatment recommendations

emmapote@...
 

Emma Pote
Ontario Canada
Joined 2020


Re: xrays posted. Looking for treatment recommendations

emmapote@...
 

Sorry. Here is the link to his xrays.
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=247513


Re: xrays posted. Looking for treatment recommendations

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi emmapote,

Sorry you are going thru this with your boy.

Would you please provide the link to the photo album. Also, please sign all your posts with your name, general location and year of joining.

Thanks for your help with this.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


xrays posted. Looking for treatment recommendations

emmapote@...
 

I've posted recent xrays (May 22, 2020) from my 13 yr old OTTB gelding Red who recently had a laminitc episode following a short trim (7 weeks ago). He is on the diet and currently barefoot with padded boots. Still has a pulse in one foot. Other hooves have settled. He is walking comfortably in his boots. Vet recommended putting front shoes back on. I am hesitant as he was shod consistently up until a couple weeks before the trim that led to a laminitic episode. He was sound on Previcox but slightly off without. He is still on Previcox. His diet has been relatively low NSC for the year I have had him. Now he is on the recommended ECIR diet with low NSC hay. Vet will be back in a couple days to take blood and discuss hoof care. Recommendations are appreciated.


Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Karen Hocking
 

Heidi it's called Phlegmon Black Label Anti Abscess Ointment - put it on Animalintrex, place on the hoof and wrap with vet wrap. I'm in Australia and get it through my vet or Vetnpetdirect.

Cheers
Karen


Re: Not urgent - arginine

Kim Leitch
 


Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Heidi Wright
 

Is there a product called phlegmon??  What is it?  I am looking for alternative options for poultice.  Been using ichthamol and animalintex, but wanted to know what other options are.  My barefoot mentor suggested notusing epsom salt poultice on the coronary band solooking for other things.  My horse is sound now but he still has a hot spot around his coronary band,so I know it's still brewing in there.

Heidi


Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Karen Hocking
 

Heidi I have been soaking in epsom salts and then making an epsom salt paste with the Animalintex pad, covered with the elastic vet wrap (x2). Just got some phlegmon from the vet this afternoon - that's what worked last time. It only seems to be coming out really slowly at the moment and he is still pretty lame.

Karen


Re: When to replace hoof pads

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

If they become flat as pancakes, with no recoil left at all, they should be replaced. You want them to conform to the contours of the bottom of her foot precisely so mark which pad goes with which foot. It's also likely Cayuse will let you know when the pads are no longer serving her adequately.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


When to replace hoof pads

 

I finally found the right pads of Cayuse's  Clouds -- Easycare Mint Green soft 12 mm pads. She likes them so much she immediately acted like a jughead, bucking and jumping. How do I know when it's time to replace the pads? There's a huge lead time to find any kind of pads, so I need to buy replacements yesterday.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos 


Re: Not urgent - arginine

Sherlene Turner
 

Thanks Kim Leitch.  Your explanation was helpful to me.
Sherlene 
Klemens




On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:03 PM Kim Leitch via groups.io <hobby1horse=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
Just for the sake of accuracy, d,l does not mean designed in lab, but refers to mirror image isomers (think of how your hands are mirror images of each other), d being a right handed molecule, l being left handed. D,l arginine would be a mixture of both forms. L-arginine is the useful form, so if using the mixed form, there is less active arginine. 
--
Kim 10-2014

Clover, SC

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Grits%20-%20Eeyore%20-%20Dually

Photo album Grits https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1314

Photo album Eeyore https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6586&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Dually https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9046&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Bella https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photosearch?q=kim+and+bella
 




--
Sherlene Klemens
Bundaberg, Qld, Australia
joined 2012

561 - 580 of 11568