Date   

Re: DSLD Trim Please Evaluate

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Leave those areas alone.

Sole depth doesn't necessarily build evenly. Areas that need the most help can develop sole more quickly. When you shave that down, you are thinning an area that is doing exactly what you want it to do.

On a horse with thin soles, the less you touch the soles, the better.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: DSLD Trim Please Evaluate

 

Lavinia,

This is from my trimmer...My main question is when there are raised lumps in the sole sitting above the bar height, is it ok to leave that or could it cause bruising? 

Thanks so much!
--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447


Re: DSLD Trim Please Evaluate

 

Lavinia

Thank you so very much! 

We will continue to plod along with your suggestions. I will forward your response to my trimmer and let you know if she has any questions.
--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447


Re: DSLD Trim Please Evaluate

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Amber,

I know how frustrating it can be to have a horse that is a bit like peeling an onion - every time you think you've reached the center (and your tears are over), another issue rears it's ugly head. There are some tweaks you can implement to try to get his trim to support him more.

Overall, the trim is doing pretty well. Part of the hocks getting straighter is the DSLD. As his fetlocks drop, they will inevitably cause the joints above to open more to compensate. The underrun heels are also being exacerbated by the DSLD as it changes where his weight is concentrated when he lands.

Some suggestions are to bevel all the toes under more so that you creep them back a bit more with each trim. This will also help him to breakover more easily, so places less stress on his compromised ligaments/tendons. Don't remove any sole anywhere, even if it is exfoliating - it will wear itself off. Leave the bars alone except to lightly knock off any parts that are crumbling or breaking away. To encourage the heels to move back, leave the vertical height alone. Ramp the back of the buttress and start using the heel-bar junction as the buttress. Bevel the wall itself in that area out of ground contact. That removes the crushing pressure on the horn tubules, allowing them to stand more upright  See esp. figure 2 and 3 here:

http://www.hoofrehab.com/HeelHeight.html

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


DSLD Trim Please Evaluate

 

Marquise has DSLD and a whole host of other problems, many stemming from 24 years of having terrible feet. Is there anything that can be done to improve his trim?

About a year ago I changed trimmers and posted photos. For over a year my trimmer has barely touched sole and only heel enough to keep it from running under and crushing, but he just will not grow foot at all. We back the toes just as far as we feel comfortable and he is most comfortable this way. His hocks are getting straighter and straighter.

I would welcome any markups and suggestions.

Thank you in advance for any help that can be offered.
--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447


Re: Crooked hoof -now sore - trim advice please

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Thanks, Susan. Those will be fine.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Crooked hoof -now sore - trim advice please

Susan
 

I've posted a complete set of hoof pictures here: Ella's Photos. Let me know if you can work with them or if there are any that need to be redone. 
Thanks
--
Susan in BC 2020
Copper and Ella's Case Histories
Ella's Photos


Re: Crooked hoof -now sore - trim advice please

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Susan,

In order to help, I'll need a full set of current hoof photos. Please see here for what's needed:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/wiki#Photos-and-Hoof-Evaluation-Help

On the lateral and dorsal views, please be sure to set the camera far enough back so that the cannon bones are included as well. Each foot needs to be taken individually otherwise you end up with obliques rather than true dorsals.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Crooked hoof -now sore - trim advice please

Susan
 

I'd appreciate some advice on my mare's trim. She has a slightly crooked right front foot. She's been like that as long as I've had her.  I bought her at 5, she's now 9. I'm not sure if she was born that way. She has been sore on that hoof a few times since I purchased her for short periods and it was usually following a bad trim. Mostly there have been no problems. She typically has been able to walk over very rough course ground barefoot with no problems. She's never had shoes.

I've been trimming her myself since 2018. There are a few pictures of her hooves just when I started to trim her and from yesterday. For the last few weeks, she's been a bit sore in that hoof. I could tell that she wasn't reaching as far with her right leg as her left. No head bobbing, just short stepping. I can also see her jabbing her toe into the ground sometime. After the recent trim that I did on Thursday, she's been stepping tender on uneven surfaces. I can feel a pulse on that side. She was out on grass for one hour in the morning until about 10 days ago, when it seemed that both of my horses were starting to show signs of laminitis.  They have only been getting hay since then.

As you can see from the pictures, the hoof wall is very straight on the inside and flares on the outside. There tends to be some separation in the hoof wall on the inside in the warmer weather and less in the winter.  The toe of her right hoof will  grow a "ski slope" or "slipper" shape if I don't take the toe back. The shape of the sole from the bottom is asymetrical. She has very straight angles on her fronts, but she is a Lusitano and it corresponds with her steep shoulders.

Originally I was following Maureen Teirney's method, but I find that it didn't provide enough guidance for unusual hooves. More recently, I've been rasping the flare from the outside  to try to get that flare under control.

There is still a bit of hoof wall (maybe 1/4") above the sole at the quarters and the heel on the outside. Do you think taking that down would alleviate some of the soreness? I'm worried that  would put that hoof on more of an angle to the outside than what she normally wears them. She always grows more hoof wall on the outside than the inside of that hoof.  Should I take more of the flare off on the outside?

She may be IR - my vet warned me that this bred is susceptible to PPID. She's still a bit fat, but she's lost some weight since the winter. She's got a massive neck and that scares me for the future. I've posted photos of her hooves and her body in Ella's Photo Album.

Thanks  in advance for any advice,
--
Susan in BC 2020
Copper and Ella's Case Histories
Ella's Photos


Re: Footings for turn out area

 

On Sat, Jun 13, 2020 at 08:33 AM, Susan wrote:
I do notice that I sometimes have to dig small chips out of the areas where there is a bit of wall separation. Does that mean that the crusher pieces that were laid the last time are too small?
Not in my opinion. Gravel is a very effective mulch to hold down weeds. I'd rather focus on no hoof wall separation, whatever the cause.  Green things grow, for which I'm grateful except along the edges of my dry lot, where I spend hours and hours in every season trying to keep the dry lot dry, never with complete success. 

 I don't have gravel everywhere, btw. I have dirt rolling areas where I maintain a sand pile. I do pick up larger gravels in the dirt parts of my turnout, especially after I harrow. I use a fine tine manure fork. https://www.amazon.com/Fine-Tine-Pitch-Fork-Junior/dp/B004ZQ5VR2/ 
 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos 


Re: Lavinia, I would appreciate help with these hinds!!

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Will do, Joella. Just going to be a couple of days before I can get to these.

Just a note that the trim has a lot of good things going for it, just needs some tweaking rather than a major revamp - which is wonderful to see .

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Footings for turn out area

Susan
 

Thank you Case and Lavinia,

I hadn't thought about the traction. When I first laid the crusher, it wasn't as course. So maybe some of the finer stuff has washed off as there is a slope to the paddock.
I do notice that I sometimes have to dig small chips out of the areas where there is a bit of wall separation. Does that mean that the crusher pieces that were laid the last time are too small?

I guess I'll go with the crusher over most of the area and see if I can get some pea gravel for areas where they are fed.

I trim my own horses and have been learning what to do and what works for them for the last 3 years.  Since they are both a bit tender now, maybe I can get some feed back on anything that should be changed. But I'll post that when I take some current pictures.

--
Susan in BC 2020
Copper and Ella's Case History


Lavinia, I would appreciate help with these hinds!!

J Foust
 

Hello Lavinia,
 
I hope this finds you well and doing well!!
 
I would be grateful for any recommendations you could offer to tweak my trimming job of the hinds.  
 
Her left loin is always sore.  Stifles and hocks pop.  The left rear right fore seem to have the most issues. I’ve had her ovaries ultrasounded & chiro, & trigger pt, & energy work, & an ovary flush just to make sure, & fascia work, and she’s on CTB & vet exams ... & & ... and the left loin, although much better is still touchy.   She also holds the left hind out behind whenever we hault under saddle. Saddle fit has been checked and checked and checked. I’m thinking it has something to do with that wonky black foot. 🤔🤷🏻‍♀️  So if you can teach me to “un-wonk” it that would be awesome ☺️

This is the best trim job I know how to do.  
I don’t always keep her trimmed up like this as an fyi.  If I knew I was doing the most helpful job possible I would keep up with it better. 
 
White foot is right rear
Black foot is left rear 
 
My frustration with the trim is: 
1) the medial walls are tall and steep and the hairline swoops up when the foot is on the ground but when I pick it up it I don’t see what I could take off to help this. 
 
2) the pastern isn’t centered especially on the black foot. I worry about her joints. 

3) the bar is ugly? Helpful? on the lateral side but I read in one of your posts to leave it when taking off the flare so I did.  
 
4) I don’t know how often to touch up or what to touch up. 
 
5) the bottom of the foot looks really asymmetrical. Is that damaging her?
 
6) the foot tends to think about having a bull nose.  Ugh!  I think the heels could come back more but I don’t think I can back the toe back anymore and it looks like it wants to have a broken angle already. What to do! 
 
7) I can’t seem to decide if I have medio-lateral balance. I keep looking and wondering and after a time she’s over it and I take her home but I’m never sure about it. 

If you see additional issues please let me know! Any insights you have time to offer would be wonderful.  Have a wonderful evening!! 
 
Joella 

Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248502

--
Joella Foust 
Montana
2015
Bronwynn
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joella%20and%20Bronwynn/Bronwynn/Bronwynn%20Case%20History.pdf
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91706&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joella%20and%20Bronwynn/Hay%20Analysis/Lewistown%20Hay%202018.pdf
Houston
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=116873
Negrette, Oliver, Riley, Graybee, Diesel, Zsa Zsa, Bronwynn
Asleep: Hunter, Snip, Houston, Frisky, RyeLee, #5


Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Josephine Trott
 

Karen, I'm so sorry that you had to say goodbye to Haydon. May your happy memories of him sustain you during this sorrowful time.
R.I.P. Haydon

Josie
Davis CA 06/09


Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Kare, I'm so sorry for your loss. Although not easy, it sounds like you made the right and only choice for your boy given the circumstances.

Fly free, Haydon. Blue skies and green grass forever.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Footings for turn out area

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

If the horses are/might be IR/PPID, you can create an album in the Photos section of the case history sub-group yourself and upload photos there. Since you already have the case histories for them, I'd just put the photos there. The discussion would also take place on the main group as that's where all the topics are covered for IR/PPID horses.

If not IR and/or PPID, then the album would go here, which is Moderator upload only. You'd need to send the pix directly to me and I can create the album then upload for you.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Footings for turn out area

 

Susan, I added some birds eye to my pipe corrals over the existing compacted footing.  I also have crusher run in parts of my turnouts where I need to supply traction during muddy weather. Larger pieces of gravel are noticeable when the crusher run gets thin and is less than 3 inches deep. If the layer is thick enough, they cushion the larger gravels, which just sink in. Birds eye is not grippy. I worry about my horses slipping on it where it covers hard ground  anyplace they race, cut and slide. 

I agree with Lavinia about the benefits of larger pea gravel, especially in a level loafing area. It's hard to come by here but one landscape supplier has started to carry it for horse facilities. I keep it away from the racetrack portions of my turnouts and have it in a small area where I feed out of bins. It's large enough that you won't find pieces of gravel embedded an any small hoof wall separation, the central sulcus or the depths of the collateral grooves. It's less likely to fly up and land inside any hoof boots you may need for your tender-footed horses when they're playing rodeo. It's supposedly very soothing to sore feet because the horse can dig in and adjust her feet to exactly where she feels most comfortable. And it may be less abrasive on those hooves that wear easily. Not sure on that latter, as my horses have very different horn quality from one another, and it's hard to know with different footings in different places.

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos 


Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Joy V
 

I'm terribly sorry Karen.  It's a heartbreaking thing to do, but the kindest choice.  There isn't really anything I can say to make it any better.  Thank you for being such a loving and good steward to your beloved boy.  

--
Joy and Willie  
(aka FLS Boxcar Willie)

Nevada County, CA - 2019


Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

gypsylassie
 

Oh Karen, I'm so sorry for your loss.   You did everything you could for Haydon and then made the hardest decision we have to make.  I'm glad it was peaceful for him, but I know  how much it hurts.  The more we love them, the harder it is, and he sounds like a wonderful horse and friend.   
Crying tears of sympathy for you,
Laura Knie
Chappie & Beau over the bridge
2011 N IL


Re: Hoof abscess - burst and now horse lame again

Karen Hocking
 

Hi all

I am writing this with a heavy heart - Haydon was laid to rest two days ago. The infection had gone into the navilcular, coffin bone and tendon sheath. He had not responded to any treatments over 6 weeks. This was also after 6 months of an eye abscess not healing completely so we suspect something else may have been going on too. It's irrelevent anyway, we were only left with one option. Thanks to my vet is was stress, fear and pain free and I was with him until the end. I am heartbroken as he was my best friend.

Regards
Karen

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