Date   

Re: cracking hooves

Griffin Keller
 

She totally agreed with my 4week request as both horses were quite long.  Most of the cracking was trimmed out, I'll grab some good pics this evening. She ended up coming quite a bit later than originally expected and Sully was 'over it' since she was focused on making sure we didn't have shoe issues like last cycle and were doing trot outs and such as we went, so it took a bit longer than usual.

I will be going to the extension office to get a soil test kit and doing an Equi-Analytic test of the grass itself (601 package) very soon!

--
Griffin 

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Prophecy (IR) Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy (IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115

Sleek N Wow (non IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=65070 


Re: cracking hooves

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

I know you're trying hard to get things squared away for Sully. Sometimes, it takes stepping back a bit and seeing things from a less personal perspective to help parse out what may be going on. We all get into the "can't see the forest for the trees" dimension at times.

Totally get the problem with finding an appropriate hoof pro - it's not uncommon, unfortunately - but with a performance horse, that just raises it to a whole new level of frustration.

Feed XL does not truly balance all your major and trace minerals - it works to eliminate frank deficiencies across the board but doesn't make the ratios between minerals optimum. Again, this may be OK for a pleasure horse at maintenance but is not precise enough for an endurance athlete nor the best bang-for-your-buck. Vit E and Se results from a blood panel are valid. Unfortunately, all other minerals won't show up as out-of-the ordinary until they are so far out of whack that the horse is obviously ill as the body maintains blood levels within very tight parameters until it is literally impossible due to severe excesses/deficiencies. Need to do the testing on what is actually going into the horse.

Testing your soil would be the best first step toward getting better, healthier pastures. When the soil is healthier and is maintained that way, the crop (pasture in this case) is more consistent. Testing the pasture itself is a moving target, although mineral levels are less volatile than the ESC+starch are across the seasons. Until you have specific data from your own pastures, using the data for grass in your area is the next best thing.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Monty's trim

Collaeyn Hazen
 


Re: cracking hooves

Griffin Keller
 

Thanks Lavinia, I guess that statement was a little too broad there!
He has a damaged spot on two hooves (medial side of RF & RH from an injury) that usually will chip a little.  But I never have had the toes do this before, and really did not notice any cracking until this cycle when we started having issues with the shoes... First, he was lame on the RF a mile into a trail ride within a week after due to the set of shoe causing toe pressure is what we finally figured out. Reset it and all was good! Then he ripped off the hinds 2 weeks later, so we put the "middle" shoe density that we used previously instead of the softest one (was trying out to see if they helped grip on grass).

1st thing of course is that I will be working to get him on a tighter schedule and discuss with her today.

Per FeedXL his diet is pretty balanced, using generic grass for our area - but I have been debating testing this pasture; sounds like I need to do so and see if something is way out of whack here with the grass (plan to lime this fall).
He did have blood work run this spring (Chem panel, Vit E & Selenium level check) and all came back good.

The farrier thing is a nightmare honestly...we are on #4 since I got him in 2018.  He actually did really well last year in the composite shoes, but the trimming was letting his heels run forward and the direction given by the vet to the farrier was not received well (farrier was at appointment) so we had to find someone else (again). 


--
Griffin 

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Prophecy (IR) Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy (IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115

Sleek N Wow (non IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=65070 


Re: cracking hooves

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Griffin,

You've just identified a number of major changes since last year: move, new farrier, diet changes, extended trim cycle. You also mention "cracking this bad", which implies there have always been integrity issues, just that it has now worsened.

Diet imbalances eventually catch up with the horse. Trim issues become magnified when the trim cycle lengthens. While pleasure horses can "get by" with a more haphazard approach, working endurance horses like Sully need a comprehensive approach. This means providing him with a mineral balanced diet to provide him with all the building blocks he needs - in the proper proportions - to support his system. Throwing "kitchen sink" feeds and supplements at him that are aimed at fixing individual problems doesn't address the underlying need to first pour the solid foundation, then tweak things to address any individual issues that he may have.

It also means regular hoof care tailored to his needs, rather than to the convenience of the farrier - I know this last can be a bugger when you are trying to get someone out to your area on a timely schedule - but that's what he needs to perform to his highest potential.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Monty's trim

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Collaeyn,

I did reply to you on the Main on ECIR Group, guess you just missed the message.

I will get those up before Friday's appointment.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Monty's trim

Collaeyn Hazen
 

Hi Lavinia,

I'm hoping you'll have a chance to do Monty's markups soon so I can get them to my farrier to "digest" before she is here on Friday.
Thank you!

--

Collaeyn and Monty
Sewell, NJ
June 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Collaeyn%20and%20Monty
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248978


Re: cracking hooves

Griffin Keller
 

Hi Ellen,
This is what he has been on since May 2019 and has been doing very well weight wise and energy wise for Endurance. (we tried Sentinel LS before that and he plateaued and stopped gaining before getting to a good weight)

The only changes since last summer were adding the MgOx, VitE and SuperSport due to a PSSM P2/P2 test result in the fall, and the move home at end of this March. 
This is the first time I've dealt with cracking this bad on him at any time of year ... Oh, and a new farrier since March2020 too. She is coming out today, so will get pics of him cleaned up after the trim, before his composite shoes go back on.  I feel like his RF got super long, so I've asked to reduce our time between for the next cycle if she can get the other local person to agree.

--
Griffin 

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Prophecy (IR) Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy (IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115

Sleek N Wow (non IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=65070 


Re: cracking hooves

 

Hello again Griffin,
 
Judging from that one hoof photo, they need dietary help in a pretty big way.  
 
How did you come about his current diet? 
 
Ellen
north Alabama
08/13 (?)
 
 
 
 


Re: cracking hooves

 

I haven't checked the ingredients in Keratex lately but I so clearly remember Doug Butler's reply to my question during a letcure he gave. I asked about using Keratex and he simply answered if you want to put a toxic product on your horse go ahead. Yikes, as I slumped in my seat.

Tania Wadzinski ? date
central Wisconsin


Re: cracking hooves

Griffin Keller
 

Ok, maybe I will do the topical route... and I subscribed thanks Bonnie :)

Ellen,
I will get new hoof photos this week as the farrier is coming (6w this cycle, usually we reset at 5 but kind of at the mercy of other person in the area she comes for in scheduling).  We have had a few issues this go round and had her out twice since they were first put on to fix shoes (RF he was lame due to position of shoe (reset and he was fine), and pulled off hinds (was trying a softer version and had too much flex for his movement apparently)).

His BC is really nice right now since being home I can feed 2xday reliably to make sure he gets everything per day (he can be a harder keeper):
4lbs Ultium, 4oz KIS trace, scoop 60% MagOx, 2000 IU Vit E, 1/4c chia, 8oz Purina Super Sport. 

I started a google album I'll update with more pics since that seems easier than the email route!  https://photos.app.goo.gl/LxFJRm8g7kKqgy5v9
Note that pics show sparse grass, but that is just up near the gate and where they eat so has gotten beaten up more :)
--
Griffin 

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Prophecy (IR) Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy (IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115

Sleek N Wow (non IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=65070 


Re: cracking hooves

 

Hello Griffin! 
 
If I were you, I'd put up a set of hoof photos for Sully.  And current body shots as well. 

Diets loaded with 'grass' are challenging to 'balance' to. 

One of the ways to prevent chipping and cracks is to maintain the breakover frequently, plus bevel and roll on the hooves, but if he's in shoes, that's not done at all.   Plus, trim cycle is usually too long between resets. 
 
Ellen
north Alabama
08/13 (?)
 
 


Re: cracking hooves

 

Griffin,
Here is a link to a recent newsletter from Dr Kellon about cracking hooves. You can subscribe to receive her newsletters via email. 

https://drkhorsesense.wordpress.com/2020/07/02/dry-hooves-are-not-inevitable/

I  thought the timing of receiving her newsletter just before your question was excellent. Because your horses live in a red clay area I would imagine that they frequently have their hooves coated in that red clay soil. IME clay will absorb moisture, meaning it would dry those hooves excessively. In this case you might consider using a barrier on the hoof walls, such as Keratex. I used to board a horse in Northern VA and I used "Mushers Secret" which is a waxy product designed for dog paws. It has to reapplied more often than the Keratex.
--
Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case HistoryPhoto Album

 


cracking hooves

Griffin Keller
 

Ugh. This is my 3rd summer with Sully and this year we have major cracking issues going on the with the hooves.  Worse up front...
Anyone else having issues this year due to the weather? they wear fly boots to help with stomping, and he is in composite nail on shoes for our endurance season.  He is on a diet balanced as well as I can without testing (new pasture this spring, not as muddy when things do get wet).

I thought hoof conditioners and stuff were all 'bogus' so I don't do them. am I wrong?

--
Griffin 

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Prophecy (IR) Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy (IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115

Sleek N Wow (non IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=65070 


Re: DSLD Trim Please Evaluate

 

Thank you! That is a totally different perspective that what I have always thought, and it actually took 3 times of reading your response to actually “get it”!

We’ll keep you posted!
Thank you!
--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447


Re: DSLD Trim Please Evaluate

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Leave those areas alone.

Sole depth doesn't necessarily build evenly. Areas that need the most help can develop sole more quickly. When you shave that down, you are thinning an area that is doing exactly what you want it to do.

On a horse with thin soles, the less you touch the soles, the better.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: DSLD Trim Please Evaluate

 

Lavinia,

This is from my trimmer...My main question is when there are raised lumps in the sole sitting above the bar height, is it ok to leave that or could it cause bruising? 

Thanks so much!
--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447


Re: DSLD Trim Please Evaluate

 

Lavinia

Thank you so very much! 

We will continue to plod along with your suggestions. I will forward your response to my trimmer and let you know if she has any questions.
--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447


Re: DSLD Trim Please Evaluate

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Amber,

I know how frustrating it can be to have a horse that is a bit like peeling an onion - every time you think you've reached the center (and your tears are over), another issue rears it's ugly head. There are some tweaks you can implement to try to get his trim to support him more.

Overall, the trim is doing pretty well. Part of the hocks getting straighter is the DSLD. As his fetlocks drop, they will inevitably cause the joints above to open more to compensate. The underrun heels are also being exacerbated by the DSLD as it changes where his weight is concentrated when he lands.

Some suggestions are to bevel all the toes under more so that you creep them back a bit more with each trim. This will also help him to breakover more easily, so places less stress on his compromised ligaments/tendons. Don't remove any sole anywhere, even if it is exfoliating - it will wear itself off. Leave the bars alone except to lightly knock off any parts that are crumbling or breaking away. To encourage the heels to move back, leave the vertical height alone. Ramp the back of the buttress and start using the heel-bar junction as the buttress. Bevel the wall itself in that area out of ground contact. That removes the crushing pressure on the horn tubules, allowing them to stand more upright  See esp. figure 2 and 3 here:

http://www.hoofrehab.com/HeelHeight.html

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


DSLD Trim Please Evaluate

 

Marquise has DSLD and a whole host of other problems, many stemming from 24 years of having terrible feet. Is there anything that can be done to improve his trim?

About a year ago I changed trimmers and posted photos. For over a year my trimmer has barely touched sole and only heel enough to keep it from running under and crushing, but he just will not grow foot at all. We back the toes just as far as we feel comfortable and he is most comfortable this way. His hocks are getting straighter and straighter.

I would welcome any markups and suggestions.

Thank you in advance for any help that can be offered.
--
Amber, Calliber and now Marquise
Upstate SC
Joined in 2019

NRCPlus Jan 2019
CIR 2019
DEW 2019

Calliber Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Calliber
Calliber Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=82557

Marquise's Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Amber%20and%20Marquise
Marquise's Photos https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91447

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