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Re: thin soles

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Tucker,

Need to make sure the trim is optimal and no sole gets removed during trims, diet is tight, if she's PPID, needs meds to control that.

If she still has issues once all those puzzle pieces are in place, you could try jiaogulan to help increase circulation and aid in growing more foot.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


thin soles

Tucker
 

I have a pony that has thin soles and is now on a dry lot with screenings as a footing. No big rocks but lots of flat pieces of gravel, she needs to have pads taped on to keep her comfortable. I have another pony and a donkey on the same lot and they have no problem. Is there a supplement that could help grow more sole and make her feet tougher? She is 28 years old, has foundered in the past and is barefoot and not riden. Thanks so much for any advice!


Re: Question for Lavinia about riding Monty, & hoof boots, & what to expect

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

I often use athletic socks (just the foot part cut off) in boots along with foot powder to absorb the moisture.  It helps keep the powder off the hoof, which can build up into a funky goo on bottom of the hoof as it absorbs moisture.  On dry days powder is enough, on wet days the socks help.  They also snug up the fit if the boots are a bit big.  Make sure the socks aren't wrinkled and the seam at the toe is not on the bottom of the hoof.

I really like t he 12mm black (medium) or green (soft) Easy Care pads, which are thick enough that they last a long time (months), although with a large horse maybe the 12mm red (firm) pads would be better.  6mm foam pads seem to wear through really fast and aren't as cushy.  The pads help with sole and frog stimulation.

One issue with Scoots that I have is that sand from my paddock gets in between the pad and stays there, rubbing the pad (and sole!) and wearing out my pads much faster than a closed boot.  You might not have that problem if he is on grass though?

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Kirsten Rasmussen
Kitimat, BC, Canada


Re: recovering from Lamanitis

Vanessa Register
 

Lavinia,
thank you . I don’t think I’ll let it go past 3 weeks. You know you can trim the mold too.
got to Keep that toe tucked.

vanessa


Re: Question for Lavinia about riding Monty, & hoof boots, & what to expect

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Then definitely update the pix when you have a moment. tweaks every few days is the perfect way to make changes.

Are you powdering his soles liberally before putting his boots on? Gold Bond foot powder (or any of the generic varieties) works really well to keep things drier and much less stinky. You can also use diatomaceous earth.

Disintegrating edges on the pads just means his walls are cutting thru them but the rest of the padding is compressed right where it should so that it's distributing the weight load across the entire bottom of his foot. Just hose them off, scrub them down to disinfect and leave them out to dry on the sun. Swap them out daily (mark them LF/RF/RH/LH) with a second set and you should get a decent amount of time out of two sets.

Good to hear he's feeling so good, as are his feet.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Question for Lavinia about riding Monty, & hoof boots, & what to expect

Collaeyn Hazen
 

Hi,

Thanks for your answers! I have been gradually working more on the heels and toes. Those pics were primarily my farrier's work and I decided she didn't honor the markups, so I've taken over doing all of my horse's feet now.   I'm afraid to do too much at once, and it takes me like an hour per horse to do all 4 feet!   For Monty, I have been making little adjustments every couple of days and it is really making a difference. I should really send you new pics. I can't believe how much his feet have changed.  However there is still a bit of toe flare. I keep telling myself it has only been a month since starting to fix this problem and that it will take time. 

What I meant about the pads was that even the medium density pads are so squashed after a couple of days, that the edges are disintigrating, or they are so flat as to not have any cushion left, or they get stinky, so I end up tossing them and replacing them.  It has been wet on and off, and humid so he sweats in his RX boots, and the morning dew makes the boots damp, so I have to swap out the pads, or the boots, or switch to different boots, pretty much every morning and sometimes evening.  I will try the firmer density pads next time I order. But I did run out of pads last week and just put the RX boots on him without, and he seemed perfectly comfortable. With Monty, he just doesn't seem to like his bare sole on hard ground. As long as there is something in between, he seems content. 

At liberty...its been so hot & humid that none of the horses here are doing anything exciting, but he did have a full out personal rodeo the other night complete with bucking and galloping, when I was switching paddocks with some of the other horses, and he didn't seem to be concerned about his hooves whatsoever during or after.
--

Collaeyn, Monty, Shark, and Duke
Sewell, NJ
June 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Collaeyn%20and%20Monty
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248978   (Monty pics)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=250635   (Shark pics)


Re: Question for Lavinia about riding Monty, & hoof boots, & what to expect

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Collaeyn,

Based on the 7-17-20 photos, you've definitely made a lot of improvements in the trim. Good job.

Toes still need to come back more, with the RF/RH being more problematic than the LF/LH.  Heels have improved but remain a work in progress. Need to get after the heel flares like you did the rest of the wall flares, which will also help to get the heels moved back under him.

While the trim is still changing, you'll need to experiment with boots to see what fits. The fronts will be more round once you get the toes back enough, which should help with the fitting.
What do you mean you go thru pads so fast? The pads should conform to his soles, squishing up into the collateral grooves so that he is getting support across all the structures on the bottom of the foot. Once that happens, the pad is custom fit for that foot so mark which one is which and don't rotate the pads. For the larger horses, use a thicker or denser pad so that once it has conformed to the foot, there is still some thickness left.
Easyboot Gloves can be customized using a heat gun, if needed. Majority of horses don't have any issues with the pastern straps, although a horse with a large degree of pastern action may find them irritating - think Pasos, for instance. See Pete's discussion on how to heat fit the boots, which can mitigate the fitting ssues on rehabbing feet:

http://www.hoofrehab.com/GloveMod.html

Don't push the formal exercise too quickly, but if he is doing well hand walking, you can try adding some light trotting in straight lines, gentle turns to see how he handles it. If that goes well, I don't see any harm in getting on him for walks .
What does he do at liberty?

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Question for Lavinia about riding Monty, & hoof boots, & what to expect

Collaeyn Hazen
 

Hello Lavinia,
I have been working on Monty's trim.  As you know his xrays showed very thin soles and distal descent. How can I tell if he is comfortable enough for riding in boots? He seems very comfortable hand walking in boots. I'd love to be able to at least get on and walk him around. Should I try lunging him to see if he seems sound on turns? 

Also, I know reversing the distal descent and getting thicker soles will take a while. Are we talking about a few months, or closer to a year? Should he be booted the entire time? Should I not be trying to ride until the reversal is well underway/complete? 

My other question is, do you have a recommendation regarding hoof boots? 
I have Monty in the Easyboot RX when it is dry (we go through the pads SO FAST though, it is getting $$$. Yoga-mat home-made pads are squished flat after a few hours...Monty is a big fellow) and I use scoot boots with rubber-ish pads (the equine fusion pads) when it is damp out. Monty lives out 24x7 except in extreme weather. He seems comfortable in both of these boot options.  However his front hooves, now that I've removed a lot of the side flare, are no longer wider than long and he seems in-between sizes in the scoots - his 3s are too tight, 4s are a bit loose.  His hoof shape difference makes the  RX boots are fit better, but a little tighter, even though I've been maintaining his trim regularly... I find this to be interesting.  I was considering something like the easyboot glove, but I'm worried about the pastern strap and if it can cause soft-tissue damage.  I would love your thoughts on this.

Thank you!
--

Collaeyn, Monty, Shark, and Duke
Sewell, NJ
June 2020
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Collaeyn%20and%20Monty
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=248978   (Monty pics)
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=250635   (Shark pics)


Re: recovering from Lamanitis

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Great news, Vanessa.

Just be sure not to allow the trim to get away from you due to the Formahoof having been applied, as this has happened to a number of people, sometimes with disastrous results. As the hooves get no wear while encased in the Formahoof, they generally can't exceed a 4-5 week schedule tops as you can't access the hoof to do any touch-ups in between full trims.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


recovering from Lamanitis

Vanessa Register
 

I posted her about 2 months ago about my Mare Cadie  who is IR an PPID.
We had a great set up trim by Paige Poss, then boots and pads.
we have had x rays also.
We were ready to go forward I didn't want to be in holding pattern forever.
Cadie needed to move for her health weight loss, and circulation and mental health a pen is boring, even if your mom sits with you for hours a day.
So we reached out to Formahoof and we put it on four days ago.
Cadie is doing great with it.
I didn't know how to apply Formahoof but with much guidance and encouragement we did it.
I am glad we did.
Boots gave the relief we needed but were rubbing her heals, no matter what tricks I did and holding in heat, it is very hot here.
don't get me started on the rain and having to take off the boots at all hours of the day and night to keep them dry.
anyways we have gone on 4 trailer rides with walks from a mile to three miles.
today we went to the fairgrounds to walk the race track. But we decided to go to the arena for a roll first.
It was here that she bucked, and took of cantering the did flying lead changes and a beautiful heal first floating trot.
Im sure diet, veterinarian care made a big difference. But seeing my mare move feely was an amazing experience.


I like to say it is like a three legged stool, diet, exercise and trim( hoof boots, shoes, formahoof) with out one the stool cannot stand.
Keep trying until you find what works.
Vanessa
Patagonia AZ
Jan 2009


Re: Crena

Maria Duran
 

Thank you very much Lavinia, it matches the situation I believe because the last one I have seen and because I finally asked about this after seing it in lots of horses is one with a bit of club foot conformation and high heels.


Re: Crena

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

That was a great view of a Crena from an actual foot.

Ideally, the healthy, strong coffin bone has a smooth, solid distal edge. When the bone becomes porous, demineralized, mechanically damaged, that changes the integrity of the leading edge along with the sole/laminar connections that meet along it's perimeter. Horses that consistently land toe-first (much too common today) will inevitably damage the leading edge of the coffin bone over time, leading to more obvious signs of that accruing damage at ground level.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Crena

Maria Duran
 

Thank you Lavinia, I believe this is what you are describing right?

https://youtu.be/T0URb6PRHDI

And what's the reason for this kind of shape? Does it have something to do with any pathology?

Thanks a lot.


Re: Crena

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

The white line is created where the lamina of the wall meet and intertwine with the sole at the very bottom edge of the coffin bone, then this seam continues on down to the ground. It is formed in the shape of the coffin bone's distal edge.

The crena is due to the sole following the outline of the bottom edge of the coffin bone. If you look at radiographs of these feet, you will see some degree of indentation along the margin of the CB that aligns with the location of the crena at ground level.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Crena

Maria Duran
 

Hi all, 

Does anyone know what is the real cause of crena in the sole?

I have tried to search for it but there are different opinions about it. When I look at sole's crenas it looks like there is stretched while line underneath but not sure about it.

Thank you very much.

María Durán.


Re: Hoof abscesses - treatment question

Mary M.
 


-- Uggh hoof abscesses are not fun.  If it has already burst, may i suggest sugardine-- a mix if betadine (the solution, NOT the scrub that has soap) and sugar made to consistency of about toothpaste. I used non-absorbant side of diaper then vetwrap/duct tape overnight. The betadine will absorb into hoof and you will just see white sugar in morning. Good as drying agent and killing bacteria. Hope this helps.. 
Mary Marzec, Chelsea MI, 2012
Mary/Katie Case HIstory


Hoof abscesses - treatment question

Karen Hocking
 

Hi all

My hoof sagas seem to be never ending this year. Star (my mare) was diagnosed with laminitis back in April (not PPID or IR although vet originally thought she would be - her tests came back negative - protocols from this group were used) and it was put down to be mechanical laminitis. After years of drought, we got drought breaking rains and everything had turned to mud. She was improving but we have been getting more rain and more mud (there was still some separation in the laminae). I don't have the option to keep her out of it completely but we are restricting her to the top of the yard where the water drains away best and her shelter is completely dry (not that she likes to stand in it much).

She has an abscess in the left front hoof that burst about 5 days ago through the back of the frog (I have been using Phlegmon, Animalintrex Poultice pad and bandaging with a treatment boot over the top for protection (changing and cleaning every second day). She went lame again this time on the right front leg on Wednesday - heat in the coronet band and the hoof wall. Phlegmon, Animalintrex Poultice pad and bandaging with a treatment boot over the top for protection. I only have one treatment boot at the moment so it was put on the new sore hoof and the other one just has a few layers of bandage on top of the Animalintrex. I'm pretty sure that abscess burst this morning as she is walking better now. (I'm trying to find another boot so I can have both hooves protected). 

Given I lost my other horse Haydon in June after an abscess and the infection spread into the tendon sheath, I am paranoid about hoof issues :(

We have more wet weather forecast over the next 4 weeks and I am really worried about how her feet are going to heal. Is there anything else I can be doing for her? Is there anything I can do to protect that hoof until I can get another treatment boot? How long should I keep it covered for now the abscess has burst?

Thank you in advance.

- Karen
April 2020, Dubbo NSW Australia
Case History Star: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Star%20-%20Herbert/Star
Photos Star: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245668

Case History Herbert: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Karen%20and%20Star%20-%20Herbert/Herbert
Photos Herbert: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=245671


Re: Cooper's Hoof Pictures

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Melissa,

Thanks for the update.

Since Cooper is PPID/IR, all questions regarding his situation - including ones about his hooves - remain on the Main ECIR group. I'll take a look at the pix and comment there.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Cooper's Hoof Pictures

Melissa Mathurin
 

Hi. I was able to upload Cooper's hoof pictures today. His trim was on 07/09/2020. He is wearing Cloud boots and is moving around fairly well now. He is still reluctant to put his left front down without his boots on. I don't want to use the farrier that trimmed him again. I had a barefoot trimmer come out and check his feet. She recommended lowering his heels a little bit but didn't do it since she didn't want to get fully involved (she doesn't get along well with vet and farrier). Please let me know what I should ask for. Thanks!


Re: Concerned about hooves. Pics.

Cindy Giovanetti
 

I cannot imagine that my vet would come up with a good trimmer. My vet has willingly prescribed Metformin and sent blood to Cornell; but he knows nothing about what we’re doing. He is virtually just cooperating with my requests. I am definitely leading him.

Cindy


--
Cindy
Denton, Texas
Joined 2/19, but I was a member of the old Yahoo group
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden/Oden%20case%20history%20%287%29%20%281%29.doc
Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125

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