Date   

Re: Supportive releasing pad options?

Mary M.
 
Edited

HI Joella, 
I am a big fan of Flex Hoof Boots. I did 8 miles last weekend through mud, creek, off trail, rocks, hills basically the whole gambit. My mare did not take a wrong step and some areas were muddy and we went up steep hills.  But you asked about pads. The same company makes Kevlar pads that i like in my boots.  My mare does not necessarily need them, but she seems to go better than ever in her life. 

The owner is Lindy and she is super nice and helpful if you call her.  Hope this helps in your search. 

https://flexhoofbootstampa.com/collections/accessories-for-your-flex-hoof-boots

--
Mary Marzec, Chelsea MI, 2012
Mary/Katie Case HIstory


Supportive releasing pad options?

J Foust
 

 Hello! 

Lavina,  thank you for your wonderfully informative comment to my last question! I learned a lot which was my goal ☺️ So thank you! ☺️

Regarding pads, what types of materials would provide support but still allow for pressure and release?  And does such a thing exist in a low profile that could be used in boots?   I’m not thinking a wedge pad per se. But if such a material exists I suppose it could be glued together in several layers to create the desired wedge height. What comes to mind right off is rubber. 🧐🤔

I’ve wandered around hardware stores and auto parts stores and craft stores and wondered about the utility of some of the items. Just wondering if there’s a material that works wonderfully that I haven’t yet found mentioned in a post this group. 🙂

Thanks so much! 
--
Joella Foust 
Montana
2015
27y owner 
13y trim own
11y rehab
Bronwynn
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joella%20and%20Bronwynn/Bronwynn/Bronwynn%20Case%20History.pdf
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91706&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joella%20and%20Bronwynn/Hay%20Analysis/Lewistown%20Hay%202018.pdf
Negrette, Oliver, Riley, Graybee, Diesel, Zsa Zsa, Bronwynn
Asleep: Hunter, Snip, Houston, Frisky, RyeLee, #5


Re: Short toes

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Bobbie,

It sounds like his toes can come back even more than they already are. The squaring-off is due to him wearing them down himself as he breaks over the center of the hoof - a perfectly normal occurrence that we don't generally notice when the feet are shod or when the toes aren't too long. He doesn't wear the rest as much so you see the amount of growth/excess very clearly.

You're welcome to send pix as well.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

 

Computer took a bit to update.  Yippie
--
Diann Kuzma
One Hoof at a Time
PHCP Practitioner
Joined 2018


Re: To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

 

Thanks, done, i hope


Short toes

Bobbie Day
 

Lavinia
The recent topic of toes makes me wonder about my big geldings fronts. Lately his toes look like someone just literally squared them off. He’s never been lame but he is getting arthritis in one shoulder (snake bite).
He has never been trimmed that way, he’s always had good feet and wears boots when we ride.
only thing I can see that could possibly be causing this is he stomps and I mean a lot !
Doesn't seem to matter how much I spray him, we also have fly predators, he is bothered more than anyone else.
he wouldn’t go for fly boots. May I send a picture and get your input?
My husband just filed them down and they’re already getting stubbed off. I’m perplexed 😕 


Re: To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Diann,

Unfortunately, signatures do not carry over from group to group.You need to create a signature for this group the same way you did for the Main ECIR Group.

Just click on Subscription at the top left of the page. Then scroll down to the Signature box, fill in your name, general location and year of joining. Check the two boxes for web posting and email posting. Then scroll down to the bottom of the page and hit Save.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Good question, Joella.

In feet like these, all the necessary support structures in the back half of the foot are lacking in some way, including the digital cushion, lateral cartilage, frog, heels. The bull nose indicates that there is work being done to get a long toe back to where it should be. If the toes have always been kept short (horizontally speaking), then you won't necessarily have the bull nose as a rad flag. If the heels are underrun to any degree, you should expect to see a lower-than-ideal plantar angle on radiographs. Heel bulbs that protrude well behind the hoof and are softer and flatter are also an indication that the plantar angle is too low. The digital cushion is lacking in the sense that it is underdeveloped and is also displaced further back behind the foot. You can easily check its health by palpating it: a healthy digital cushion in an adult horse should have the firmness of a super ball. On too many horses, you'll find it feels much more soft and squishy.

There's a great example of this kind of foot that an ECIR member has been dealing with quite recently:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/36909/15?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/36909/16?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0

They're pretty dramatic and most cases are not nearly this badly out of alignment. Note the difference/improvement in both the bony column alignment and the heel bulbs from May to Aug. You can follow the specifics of Lynn and Relevante's journey on the Main ECIR Group.
 
A temporary wedging of the back half of the foot with padding that will support, but also allow for pressure-and-release, can be helpful while the underlying trim issues are corrected. Just using a firm wedge to elevate the heels doesn't solve anything in the longer term.The trick is to leave the actual walls at the heels unloaded so that they can relax down and back into their correct position. Otherwise, you just continue to apply constant pressure to the crushed heels, which maintains the status quo.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

 

For some reason, my info did not show

Diann Kuzma
One Hoof at a Time
Joined 2018


Re: To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

 

I had/have a few clients like this.  The heels are way to low, like crushed/run forward.  I try using glue on; boots 24/7; Hoof Armor, anything to stop heel wear.  I do not know enough about wedges to help you.  In my mind, theoretically, the wedge temp helps the hoof angle/ligaments.  But does it allow the heel to actually grow?


To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

J Foust
 

Good evening all, 

I have been contemplating a brain teaser topic, at least for me.

if a horse has negative angles on rads (hinds) but the external pastern to hoof angle/grain is barely brocken back and there is no bull nose .. would this imply that the digital cushion is lacking?

Would wedging to correct the negative angle be advisable in this senario? 

It’s more of an academically interesting question and I’d love to hear what your brilliant minds think 😁

Cheers!
--
Joella Foust 
Montana
2015
27y’s owner
13y’s trimming own
11y’s rehab’s
Bronwynn
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joella%20and%20Bronwynn/Bronwynn/Bronwynn%20Case%20History.pdf
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91706&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joella%20and%20Bronwynn/Hay%20Analysis/Lewistown%20Hay%202018.pdf
Negrette, Oliver, Riley, Graybee, Diesel, Zsa Zsa, Bronwynn
Asleep: Hunter, Snip, Houston, Frisky, RyeLee, #5


Re: Glue-on boots with pads

Maxine McArthur
 

Update: the front glue-ons came off again within a couple of days, despite extra care drying both dorsal wall and shell, new tube of glue. Back to the drawing board for sure. The hinds are still on at two weeks today and counting. Same prep, same pads, same glue as the fronts. I've posted a photo in her case history album--those suckers are solid, despite gooey mud, gallops up rocky hills, and gaps between boot and wall at the heel quarters. Sometimes the universe just likes to tease us, I'm convinced. (I've probably jinxed myself now and they'll be gone when I go to check this afternoon, haha.)

--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy/Dangles%20case%20history
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933


Re: Thank you Lavinia!

regina bruno
 

Yes!!!  Me too!!!  I've worked so hard to get Smokey healthy and just am not getting the right trimming.  I'm ready to learn.


Re: Glue-on boots with pads

Maxine McArthur
 

Thanks all, appreciate the feedback. The learning curve never flattens, it seems! 
Given the amount of glue left on the hoof wall, I'm pretty confident our prep was okay, but I'll be extra careful next time. 

--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy/Dangles%20case%20history
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933


Re: Glue-on boots with pads

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

As Cass and Kirsten mentioned, making sure the hoof is clean a d dry are extremely important.

Whenever you use a pad, it is likely the glued or casted shoe/boot is likely to come off sooner as the pad causes more compression and expansion with each stride. This stresses the glue bond more, so it ends up releasing sooner than without the pad.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Glue-on boots with pads

 

P.S. No pads, only hoof packing in the collateral groves.
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos 


Re: Glue-on boots with pads

 

Hi, Maxine. Diamond has been in glue-on shoes for close to two years. I don't do anything but watch. She's very hard on glue on shoes, my trimmer tells me, wearing them more in 4 weeks than any of the performance horses in his practice. She wears a Polyflex Horse Shoe without pads. Her frogs look amazing. Check out the application process at the link.

Preparing the hoof is painstaking and I do wonder if it weakens the hoof wall, which in Diamond's case, isn't very robust.  Anyway, the hoof walls are wire brushed and then dressed with a wire drum brush attachment on a power drill. The wire drum brush is 4-6 inches long and the hoof wall is brushed about half way up the hoof wall.  That clean hoof wall is dried very thoroughly using light passes a hand-held butane torch. The hoof must be completely clean and very dry for the glue to adhere. The hoof is then covered in a hoof bootie like this Easyboot Zip while the other hoof is prepared. Before the custom formed shoe is applied, the collateral grooves are packed with packing mixed with copper sulfate.

The  glue-on process itself as I remember it: the bead of glue is placed on the shoe, the shoe is set and then the hoof must be held up for 3-4 minutes while the glue sets. This is the most frustrating to the horse. While Diamond can hold her hoof up for several minutes without difficulty, having the trimmer hold it up without doing anything is frustrating.

As I said, I don't do this. My trimmer does and has for almost two years, so I've watched it dozens of times. A shoe has come off twice, and it's a mess when that happens. Nippers are used to remove the glue on, an athletic event beyond my capabilities. He uses the same adhesive every time. I can ask what it is, if it matters. It's temperature sensitive, so in the winter it takes longer to set. 

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos 


Re: Glue-on boots with pads

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Too bad, Maxine, maybe trying the thinner pad would help...  I suspect with pads the length the boots stay on will be shorter than without pads because with every step and compression of the pads, no matter how little, that glue bond is being stretched and worn out.  

I have heard that the hoof, the boot, and the glue all need to be the same temperature for the best bond.  Not sure if you knew that but it's the only other advice I can offer.

--
Kirsten Rasmussen
Kitimat, BC, Canada


Glue-on boots with pads

Maxine McArthur
 

I'm wondering if anybody has had experience with glueing on boot shells with pads. We glued four Glove shells on Indy a week ago. Reason--she lands better in boots and pads but tends to rub if left in them 23/7; and her mum has 'boot fatigue' (arthritic hands, bad back...). 

We cut out the back of the shell, heat-fitted, bevelled toes and heels. Used Adhere--acrylic glue is prohibitively expensive here, and the old-style Vettec cartridges are on sale to make way for their new stock.
In the front boots we used the Happy Hoof yellow pads, as I know she likes these in her usual strap-on boots. In the hind boots we used a 5mm EVA foam from a local foam and rubber outlet, as she doesn't usually use pads in her back boots (due to twisting) and I wanted a thinner pad in the backs. All four feet were prepped the same, followed the same process. 
A week later, both fronts came off, one on a ride and the other when she rolled after the ride. The hinds, although there are clear gaps between hoof wall and boot at the heel quarters, are astoundingly solid. 
I am really surprised that she lost the fronts first, as she's never lost a strap-on boot on her front feet, but many many times we have lost hinds, mostly the left hind that twists. 
There was glue both on the hoof walls and on the boot walls. It's obviously a glue failure, but not due to dirt on the hoof or boot, or due to the glue itself (as the hind boots are still on and we used the same cartridge). [As an aside, the soles and frogs looked dry and happy, and there was still Artimud in the CGs.]
The only variable seems to be the pads. My theory is that the Happy Hoof pads, because they are a sturdy foam that gradually flattens out while supporting the hoof, have contributed to the glue bond failure by pulling the boot from the wall as they packed down over the week. The EVA foam used on the hind boots is not only a thinner pad to start with, but it flattens more quickly, probably within minutes. 
Does this make sense? 
My next try will be to clean up the shells (aarghhh) and try them again with a thinner pad--either the same as the hinds, or a red Easycare pad (although ordering anything online means a wait of 3-4 weeks for the parcel to arrive).  
Any other suggestions? DIM is prohibitively expensive here too, I can't really afford it. 

She moved well in the glue-ons, I do think she liked them. I'd prefer to be able to keep them on for 3-4 weeks though...

--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy/Dangles%20case%20history
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933


Re: soak search frustration

Bonnie
 

Thank you, Lavinia. It seems to be one of those obvious things that "everybody knows." MY brain must be past it's "best before" date.

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