Good morning,

I’m trying to find a post, preferably by a moderator or pro, that addresses how to trim a foot with a sunk but NOT rotated CB.  There’s got to be one on here ☺️

Thanks!! 

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Joella Foust 
Montana
2015
27y owner 
13y trim own
11y rehabs

Bronwynn
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joella%20and%20Bronwynn/Bronwynn/Bronwynn%20Case%20History.pdf
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91706&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joella%20and%20Bronwynn/Hay%20Analysis/Lewistown%20Hay%202018.pdf

Negrette, Oliver, Riley, Graybee, Diesel, Zsa Zsa, Bronwynn
Asleep: Hunter, Snip, Houston, Frisky, RyeLee, #5

HI Susan,

That's not an uncommon occurrence when the weather/footing conditions change so drastically. It can also happen when horses transition from "winter" feet to "summer" feet. Their current frogs will callous off again in response to the current conditions and they'll be fine. The problem is they shed more frog more quickly than the underlying, less mature frog could handle that quickly

You can boot and pad the horse who is tender on the gravel as needed until he re-develops his protection.

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Lavinia
Jan 2005, RI

Moderator/ECIR Support

Both my horses had the top layer of their frogs peel off in the last week on all 4 hooves. About a 1/4" was lost. It came off while I was cleaning their hooves and I only had to run the side of the hoof pick over the top of the frog for it to break off in chunks.

They  seemed to be finally developing a nice calloused frog this summer, but now the callous is gone and one of them seems to be walking a bit more tenderly on gravel. It had been hot  and dry for about 8 weeks and then we had a week of constant rain. I've never experience such a quick shedding of the frog over the whole area. At about the same time the rain started I started treating one of my horses with zinc oxide (40%) diaper rash cream + copper sulfate powder (ala Pete Ramey) to clear up what seems to be thrush in the collateral grooves and central sulcus. Could this have had something to do it? If it peeled off that quickly does it mean that it wasn't live frog in the first place? Or maybe I should ask if in general, is the tough outer callous part of the frog  a live part of the frog?

I'm worried about what's going to happen when the winter rains start in earnest.  Will it be possible to develop a thicker frog if they are out all day in wet conditions? My paddock is not muddy, but it has crushed stone on it, so it's a bit abrasive. Does anyone have experience with this and is it a normal occurrence?
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Susan in BC 2020
Copper and Ella's Case Histories
Ella's Photos

When I put my arena in, 20 plus years ago, I used a USDF booklet.  I found this link to it.  Not sure if you can still order it from the USDF.  An important point is to use manufactured sand rather that river sand.  River sand is round and will roll while manufactured sand has tiny flat sides which keep it from rolling.  A friend and I Installed our arenas the same year and she used river sand.  She ended up having to replace it.  A proper base is extremely important as well.
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This is a great tip, Regina.  Thanks for the suggestion.  As hard as I try to keep my pea stone clean, it’s nearly impossible.
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Lavinia said:  "For the horses' feet, the best thing to use is 4"-6" of 3/8" pea stone."

I am getting ready to do my dream-come-true grading, footing, and surfacing project.

Can anyone direct me to specific instructions on surfacing material?  I do plan to have a pea-gravel section, and will use Lavinia's instructions above.  But I also need advice on the track portion and the riding area. 

Thanks in advance.
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Cindy
Denton, Texas
Joined 2/19, but I was a member of the old Yahoo group
Case History:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Cindy%20and%20Oden/Oden%20case%20history%20%287%29%20%281%29.doc
Photos:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91125

Down at ground level it will be from some time in the past.

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Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support

I was rasping Abs front hooves and noticed  he had pink showing up.  No noticable difference in travel. I started soaking hay. Is this a current issue or is it just showing up from some time ago?
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Lori's  Morgans
Northern Calif.
2017

Trisha DePietroJul 27 #11189  

I’m still very interested in your advice if you have time. ☺️🤓🧐
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Joella Foust 
Montana
2015
Bronwynn
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joella%20and%20Bronwynn/Bronwynn/Bronwynn%20Case%20History.pdf
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91706&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joella%20and%20Bronwynn/Hay%20Analysis/Lewistown%20Hay%202018.pdf
Negrette, Oliver, Riley, Graybee, Diesel, Zsa Zsa, Bronwynn
Asleep: Hunter, Snip, Houston, Frisky, RyeLee, #5

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Diann Kuzma
One Hoof at a Time
PHCP Practitioner
Joined 2018

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Diann Kuzma
One Hoof at a Time
PHCP Practitioner
Joined 2018

Hi Susan,

That's going to be a tough one as the majority of the boots are designed to be used on feet where the trim is pretty optimal, which means the heels are the appropriate height. Your best bet is going to be one of the rehab-type boots like the EasyCare Clouds or the Soft Rides as these have a more forgiving fit.

All boots should have a good bevel added to the treads at the toe to help get the breakover into the correct place. More on that here:

https://www.hoofrehab.com/BootArticle.htm

In the rads from 8-2020, there was slight rotation of the RF, so she needed to have the heels lowered a bit to correct that.  From the 6-2020 pix in her album, all the toes needed to come back more, heels were underrun, flares present on all four feet - all of which is going to make boot sizing very difficult.

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Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support

I am a big fan of the Easy Care pads, all 3 densities.  The softer ones conform more over time, the firmer ones retain their shape better but still squish when weight is applied.

The interlocking floor mat foam did not last more than a day for me, it just flattened out.

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Kirsten Rasmussen

Hi Rebecca,

You need to rocker/bevel the back of the heels but leave the vertical height of the heel buttress alone. Also need to rasp the wall out of weight bearing in the heel, leaving only the bar as the weight bearing point.

If you're using boots and pads, use a thicker pad,that really supports the entire bottom of the foot, but you can trim it so that the perimeter fits just inside the walls. Experiment with frog support of different heights and densities as well. Be prepared to change the pads as the needs of the horse change.

There are mark-ups in Lynn and Relevante's Photo album and discussions to go along with those on the Main ECIR Group. Also see Ramey's discussions here:

https://www.hoofrehab.com/BootArticle.htm

https://www.hoofrehab.com/HeelHeight.html

https://www.hoofrehab.com/HorsesSole.html

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Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support

I am interested in this topic as well, as I am currently working with a good barefoot trimmer with ground parallel/negative angle in my boy's back feet with underrun heels all around. Lavinia what is involved in the trim to leave the walls of the heels unloaded?
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Rebecca and Joe,  Lexington KY, 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rebecca%20and%20Joe

Joella, there are All types of pads.  Easy boot has comfort pads, 3 densities. Another company is HoofPads?  Can not quite remember.  I have had clients use yoga mats, the puzzle mates for long term standing even carpet.  It all depends on what your horse needs.  I work on a foundered horse that has rock hard hooves. I tried using a baby diper in his Trails.  Cut to fit, then added water.  Did not know that the inside part would swell up so much.  Then since the diper was cut, all the inside squished out.  What a sight.  It still did what i wanted, soften the hoof.  Next i tried a med feminan pad.  That worked a lot better.  The thing about hooves, is you really need to think out of the box.  It helps alot to ask question, as you are doing.  Good luck 
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Diann Kuzma
One Hoof at a Time
PHCP Practitioner
Joined 2018

Can anyone suggest a hoof boot for a horse with  high heels and a steep angle? She has a bit of high low syndrome. I've sent pictures to scoot boot and they told me that their boots won't work for my horse. I making due with a pair of easyboot gloves. But it's hard to get  her toe  all the way to the front, even though the width is right (and I have the wide version). After walking around in them a bit her toe seems to slip into the front, but the gaiter around the ankle is very loose and gaping. I'd like to leave them on full time until she gets sound, but I'm afraid she'll catch the gaiter on something, so they come off at night. And I'm also worried that because it may be a bit loose in the toe, that the break over is in the wrong place, which isn't helping her with her heel first landing. You can see pictures of her hoof in Ella's photos. It's her right front that is the problem.
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Susan in BC 2020
Copper and Ella's Case Histories
Ella's Photos