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Re: Boot for horse with steep angle on a front hoof

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Susan,

That's going to be a tough one as the majority of the boots are designed to be used on feet where the trim is pretty optimal, which means the heels are the appropriate height. Your best bet is going to be one of the rehab-type boots like the EasyCare Clouds or the Soft Rides as these have a more forgiving fit.

All boots should have a good bevel added to the treads at the toe to help get the breakover into the correct place. More on that here:

https://www.hoofrehab.com/BootArticle.htm

In the rads from 8-2020, there was slight rotation of the RF, so she needed to have the heels lowered a bit to correct that.  From the 6-2020 pix in her album, all the toes needed to come back more, heels were underrun, flares present on all four feet - all of which is going to make boot sizing very difficult.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Supportive releasing pad options?

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

I am a big fan of the Easy Care pads, all 3 densities.  The softer ones conform more over time, the firmer ones retain their shape better but still squish when weight is applied.

The interlocking floor mat foam did not last more than a day for me, it just flattened out.

--
Kirsten Rasmussen
Kitimat, BC, Canada


Re: To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Rebecca,

You need to rocker/bevel the back of the heels but leave the vertical height of the heel buttress alone. Also need to rasp the wall out of weight bearing in the heel, leaving only the bar as the weight bearing point.

If you're using boots and pads, use a thicker pad,that really supports the entire bottom of the foot, but you can trim it so that the perimeter fits just inside the walls. Experiment with frog support of different heights and densities as well. Be prepared to change the pads as the needs of the horse change.

There are mark-ups in Lynn and Relevante's Photo album and discussions to go along with those on the Main ECIR Group. Also see Ramey's discussions here:

https://www.hoofrehab.com/BootArticle.htm

https://www.hoofrehab.com/HeelHeight.html

https://www.hoofrehab.com/HorsesSole.html

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

Rebecca and Joe
 

I am interested in this topic as well, as I am currently working with a good barefoot trimmer with ground parallel/negative angle in my boy's back feet with underrun heels all around. Lavinia what is involved in the trim to leave the walls of the heels unloaded?
--
Rebecca and Joe,  Lexington KY, 2020

Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Rebecca%20and%20Joe


Re: Supportive releasing pad options?

 

Joella, there are All types of pads.  Easy boot has comfort pads, 3 densities. Another company is HoofPads?  Can not quite remember.  I have had clients use yoga mats, the puzzle mates for long term standing even carpet.  It all depends on what your horse needs.  I work on a foundered horse that has rock hard hooves. I tried using a baby diper in his Trails.  Cut to fit, then added water.  Did not know that the inside part would swell up so much.  Then since the diper was cut, all the inside squished out.  What a sight.  It still did what i wanted, soften the hoof.  Next i tried a med feminan pad.  That worked a lot better.  The thing about hooves, is you really need to think out of the box.  It helps alot to ask question, as you are doing.  Good luck 
--
Diann Kuzma
One Hoof at a Time
PHCP Practitioner
Joined 2018


Boot for horse with steep angle on a front hoof

Susan
 

Can anyone suggest a hoof boot for a horse with  high heels and a steep angle? She has a bit of high low syndrome. I've sent pictures to scoot boot and they told me that their boots won't work for my horse. I making due with a pair of easyboot gloves. But it's hard to get  her toe  all the way to the front, even though the width is right (and I have the wide version). After walking around in them a bit her toe seems to slip into the front, but the gaiter around the ankle is very loose and gaping. I'd like to leave them on full time until she gets sound, but I'm afraid she'll catch the gaiter on something, so they come off at night. And I'm also worried that because it may be a bit loose in the toe, that the break over is in the wrong place, which isn't helping her with her heel first landing. You can see pictures of her hoof in Ella's photos. It's her right front that is the problem.
--
Susan in BC 2020
Copper and Ella's Case Histories
Ella's Photos


Re: Supportive releasing pad options?

Mary M.
 
Edited

HI Joella, 
I am a big fan of Flex Hoof Boots. I did 8 miles last weekend through mud, creek, off trail, rocks, hills basically the whole gambit. My mare did not take a wrong step and some areas were muddy and we went up steep hills.  But you asked about pads. The same company makes Kevlar pads that i like in my boots.  My mare does not necessarily need them, but she seems to go better than ever in her life. 

The owner is Lindy and she is super nice and helpful if you call her.  Hope this helps in your search. 

https://flexhoofbootstampa.com/collections/accessories-for-your-flex-hoof-boots

--
Mary Marzec, Chelsea MI, 2012
Mary/Katie Case HIstory


Supportive releasing pad options?

J Foust
 

 Hello! 

Lavina,  thank you for your wonderfully informative comment to my last question! I learned a lot which was my goal ☺️ So thank you! ☺️

Regarding pads, what types of materials would provide support but still allow for pressure and release?  And does such a thing exist in a low profile that could be used in boots?   I’m not thinking a wedge pad per se. But if such a material exists I suppose it could be glued together in several layers to create the desired wedge height. What comes to mind right off is rubber. 🧐🤔

I’ve wandered around hardware stores and auto parts stores and craft stores and wondered about the utility of some of the items. Just wondering if there’s a material that works wonderfully that I haven’t yet found mentioned in a post this group. 🙂

Thanks so much! 
--
Joella Foust 
Montana
2015
27y owner 
13y trim own
11y rehab
Bronwynn
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joella%20and%20Bronwynn/Bronwynn/Bronwynn%20Case%20History.pdf
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91706&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joella%20and%20Bronwynn/Hay%20Analysis/Lewistown%20Hay%202018.pdf
Negrette, Oliver, Riley, Graybee, Diesel, Zsa Zsa, Bronwynn
Asleep: Hunter, Snip, Houston, Frisky, RyeLee, #5


Re: Short toes

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Bobbie,

It sounds like his toes can come back even more than they already are. The squaring-off is due to him wearing them down himself as he breaks over the center of the hoof - a perfectly normal occurrence that we don't generally notice when the feet are shod or when the toes aren't too long. He doesn't wear the rest as much so you see the amount of growth/excess very clearly.

You're welcome to send pix as well.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

 

Computer took a bit to update.  Yippie
--
Diann Kuzma
One Hoof at a Time
PHCP Practitioner
Joined 2018


Re: To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

 

Thanks, done, i hope


Short toes

Bobbie Day
 

Lavinia
The recent topic of toes makes me wonder about my big geldings fronts. Lately his toes look like someone just literally squared them off. He’s never been lame but he is getting arthritis in one shoulder (snake bite).
He has never been trimmed that way, he’s always had good feet and wears boots when we ride.
only thing I can see that could possibly be causing this is he stomps and I mean a lot !
Doesn't seem to matter how much I spray him, we also have fly predators, he is bothered more than anyone else.
he wouldn’t go for fly boots. May I send a picture and get your input?
My husband just filed them down and they’re already getting stubbed off. I’m perplexed 😕 


Re: To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Diann,

Unfortunately, signatures do not carry over from group to group.You need to create a signature for this group the same way you did for the Main ECIR Group.

Just click on Subscription at the top left of the page. Then scroll down to the Signature box, fill in your name, general location and year of joining. Check the two boxes for web posting and email posting. Then scroll down to the bottom of the page and hit Save.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Good question, Joella.

In feet like these, all the necessary support structures in the back half of the foot are lacking in some way, including the digital cushion, lateral cartilage, frog, heels. The bull nose indicates that there is work being done to get a long toe back to where it should be. If the toes have always been kept short (horizontally speaking), then you won't necessarily have the bull nose as a rad flag. If the heels are underrun to any degree, you should expect to see a lower-than-ideal plantar angle on radiographs. Heel bulbs that protrude well behind the hoof and are softer and flatter are also an indication that the plantar angle is too low. The digital cushion is lacking in the sense that it is underdeveloped and is also displaced further back behind the foot. You can easily check its health by palpating it: a healthy digital cushion in an adult horse should have the firmness of a super ball. On too many horses, you'll find it feels much more soft and squishy.

There's a great example of this kind of foot that an ECIR member has been dealing with quite recently:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/36909/15?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photo/36909/16?p=Created,,,20,2,0,0

They're pretty dramatic and most cases are not nearly this badly out of alignment. Note the difference/improvement in both the bony column alignment and the heel bulbs from May to Aug. You can follow the specifics of Lynn and Relevante's journey on the Main ECIR Group.
 
A temporary wedging of the back half of the foot with padding that will support, but also allow for pressure-and-release, can be helpful while the underlying trim issues are corrected. Just using a firm wedge to elevate the heels doesn't solve anything in the longer term.The trick is to leave the actual walls at the heels unloaded so that they can relax down and back into their correct position. Otherwise, you just continue to apply constant pressure to the crushed heels, which maintains the status quo.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

 

For some reason, my info did not show

Diann Kuzma
One Hoof at a Time
Joined 2018


Re: To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

 

I had/have a few clients like this.  The heels are way to low, like crushed/run forward.  I try using glue on; boots 24/7; Hoof Armor, anything to stop heel wear.  I do not know enough about wedges to help you.  In my mind, theoretically, the wedge temp helps the hoof angle/ligaments.  But does it allow the heel to actually grow?


To cushions & wedges & the like 🙂

J Foust
 

Good evening all, 

I have been contemplating a brain teaser topic, at least for me.

if a horse has negative angles on rads (hinds) but the external pastern to hoof angle/grain is barely brocken back and there is no bull nose .. would this imply that the digital cushion is lacking?

Would wedging to correct the negative angle be advisable in this senario? 

It’s more of an academically interesting question and I’d love to hear what your brilliant minds think 😁

Cheers!
--
Joella Foust 
Montana
2015
27y’s owner
13y’s trimming own
11y’s rehab’s
Bronwynn
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joella%20and%20Bronwynn/Bronwynn/Bronwynn%20Case%20History.pdf
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=91706&p=pcreated,,,20,2,0,0
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joella%20and%20Bronwynn/Hay%20Analysis/Lewistown%20Hay%202018.pdf
Negrette, Oliver, Riley, Graybee, Diesel, Zsa Zsa, Bronwynn
Asleep: Hunter, Snip, Houston, Frisky, RyeLee, #5


Re: Glue-on boots with pads

Maxine McArthur
 

Update: the front glue-ons came off again within a couple of days, despite extra care drying both dorsal wall and shell, new tube of glue. Back to the drawing board for sure. The hinds are still on at two weeks today and counting. Same prep, same pads, same glue as the fronts. I've posted a photo in her case history album--those suckers are solid, despite gooey mud, gallops up rocky hills, and gaps between boot and wall at the heel quarters. Sometimes the universe just likes to tease us, I'm convinced. (I've probably jinxed myself now and they'll be gone when I go to check this afternoon, haha.)

--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy/Dangles%20case%20history
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933


Re: Thank you Lavinia!

regina bruno
 

Yes!!!  Me too!!!  I've worked so hard to get Smokey healthy and just am not getting the right trimming.  I'm ready to learn.


Re: Glue-on boots with pads

Maxine McArthur
 

Thanks all, appreciate the feedback. The learning curve never flattens, it seems! 
Given the amount of glue left on the hoof wall, I'm pretty confident our prep was okay, but I'll be extra careful next time. 

--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy/Dangles%20case%20history
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

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