Date   

Re: Navicular comfort

Allison
 

If you're on Facebook, I encourage you to join the "Barefoot Rehab for Navicular" page. It's an excellent resource! 

Your primary goal is to create a comfortable heel first landing. This is a multi faceted approach.  Forage based diet properly balanced,  proper trims, boots with pads, body work to help overcome negative patterns created in the body from compensatory movement,  aggressive thrush treatment. Avoid NSAIDs. Be patient. Soft tissue damage caused from toe first landings can take a long time to heal. 


Re: Navicular comfort

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Shera,

I'd be careful with raised frog pads on a horse unless it's regularly landing heels first, as that could apply constant pressure to the frogs/heels which the horse isn't ready to accept - leading to sustained toe-first landings. Experiment with which type of padding Sophie seems to prefer and be prepared to change to different padding as her comfort dictates.

A six week trim cycle usually won't stay on top of toes that are out ahead of where they need to be, esp. when coupled with crushed/underrun heels.You can experiment with adding jiaogulan to help increase circulation, which will accelerate hoof and sole growth:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Pain%20Medication%20and%20Alternatives/Jiaogulan,%20Nitric%20Oxide%20Support,%20AAKG%20and%20Supps/Jiaogulan%20Doses%20and%20Precautions.pdf

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/Pain%20Medication%20and%20Alternatives/Jiaogulan,%20Nitric%20Oxide%20Support,%20AAKG%20and%20Supps/Jiaogulan,%20when%20to%20try%20it%20and%20what%20to%20expect.pdf

Easyboot gloves are a reasonable choice for a non-therapy boot, as they can be heat fit, cut out, adjusted to fit well:

https://www.hoofrehab.com/GloveMod.html

--
Lavinia
Jan 2005, RI

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Navicular comfort

Shera Felde
 

Thank you, Joy. I printed off the articles and maybe Epics are a good transition? Maybe with frog pads? I will show my farrier. Sophie has been barefoot for most of the 11 years I've had her, but I had many trimmers who never got her under run heels to change much. My current farrier is doing a much better job but how to transition out of the metal? Lots to think about with article information.

I appreciate the help!!
--
Shera Felde
Sisters, Oregon
2018


Re: Navicular comfort

 

Joy, very well stated!!  A testimony to ECIR protocol!!!


Re: Navicular comfort

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Shera,

If Sophie isn't IR/PPID, then you are welcome to send her rads and photos to me directly and I'll put them up in a photo album for you, as only Moderators can upload photos on this site.

If she is possibly IR/PPID, then you can create a photo album on the case history sub-group and upload all the images yourself. Afterwards, just post a note to the main group that you'd like some input.

--
Lavinia
Jan 2005, RI

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Navicular comfort

Shera Felde
 

Thank you both for the replies. I haven't seen Formahoof before.
Sophie's diet is pretty well balanced since I also have an IR mare. I think my former trimmers didn't do her any favors leaving longer toe but now my farrier is keeping her short on 6 week cycle. He comes next Friday so I hope to decide if we change the metal shoes or not before then. Sophie doesn't have a case history on this site but maybe I can still upload xrays and photos?
--
Shera Felde
Sisters, Oregon
2018


Re: Navicular comfort

Joy V
 

My gelding was diagnosed navicular in 2015.  He was shod in special shoes w/ pads for over 2 years, etc etc and nothing helped him.  Turns out he had deep central sulcus thrush and was toe first landing for many years.  This issue was missed by three vets, (having had 5 lameness exams).  Four different hoof care professions also never seemed to notice the thrush.

After the thrush was treated, and once he was (finally) diagnosed with PPID/IR, and that was under control, he was completely sound by August of last year with no sign of "navicular".  He had been lame since before the rads he got in 2015.  I learned a lot from reading Pete Ramey's articles on his website, studies and articles by Dr. Bowker, and then once I found an excellent hoof care professional and this group, got the PPID/IR DX, everything got better for my horse.  Shoes did absolutely nothing to help him.  I was paying $375 every 6 weeks for shoes & pads (on his front feet only!) and he had thrush with toe first landing and constant low-grade laminitis.  My poor horse.

I guess my point is that according to studies by Dr. Bowker, even when horses navicular bones show changes, or show navicular bone deterioration on rads,  that doesn't always mean the pain is from their navicular bones.  It can be many other things, and in my opinion, it's very much worth checking into everything that you can.

There is a good section on Pete Ramey's website re navicular that you might be interested in checking out if you haven't already.  Navicular Syndrome    Apologies if you have already looked into all of the potential issues.

tl;dr shoes do not always help in my experience

I hope your mare feels better and becomes sound.  <3

Joy

--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)  
Nevada County, CA - 2019


Case history:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Joy%20and%20Willie
Willie's photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=242526


Re: Navicular comfort

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi (?),

Sorry to hear that your mare has been uncomfortable. It's likely both the injection and the shoes are temporarily helping her comfort levels but they won't overcome issues with the trim which usually underlie both a navicular problem and thin soles.

It would helpful to see any radiographs that have been done and a set of hoof photos. Usually, there are trim issues involved and any kind of appliance is only a band-aid for the real problems that are aggravating the navicular area. Ditto for the thin soles, with the added thought that diet can play a huge role as excesses and deficiencies of key nutrients will impact the hoof's ability to grow sole.

--
Lavinia
Jan 2005, RI

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Navicular comfort

Josephine Trott
 

Hello
Another option to glue on shoes or boots is FormaHoof. I’ve heard good reports about this product
Josie
Davis CA 11/09


Navicular comfort

Shera Felde
 

My mare was diagnosed with navicular a couple of months ago. She got a shot of Osphos and metal shoes recommended by the vet were put on. Has anyone found good glue on shoes or boots for navicular that she could comfortably transition to? I hate the metal idea but I don't want her to backslide with comfort. She has been striding better and no lameness during this time. She has a history of thin soles.

I have no idea if the injection did the work, the shoes, or both.

Thank you!


Re: Updated hoof photos

Dawn & Dalli
 
Edited

Im hoping I added the signature correctly.

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=271623


Re: Updated hoof photos

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Dawn,

Would you please provide the link to the photos for Dalli.

Thanks.

--
Lavinia
Jan 2005, RI

Moderator/ECIR Support


Updated hoof photos

Dawn & Dalli
 

I just updated Dalli's photo album with updated RF and LF photos that I took this morning. Last trim was last week and will be trimmed again in 2 1/2 weeks.

Thanks for any thoughts.


Re: question about self trimming

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Merlin thanks you for taking on the job of driving the bus!

--
Lavinia
Jan 2005, RI

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: question about self trimming

Jean
 

Great thanks,
I have ordered Petes DVDs. Read and printed several of his articles. I also have looked into makindawdells2 site. I am on the mission to learn all I can from the appropriate sites/ppl to achieve what is best for my horses. 
Thank you all for your knowledge and assistance in driving the bus. 


Re: question about self trimming

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Pete's book and DVDs are good resource, as well as his website, where you can read the trimming articles:

https://www.hoofrehab.com/

You can rent many of his DVDs from Giddy Up Flicks:

http://www.giddyupflix.com/

Paige Poss has an excellent website:

http://www.ironfreehoof.com/

Ida Hammer is another resource you can check out:

https://mackinawdells2.com/about-me.html

Ask questions about anything you want to know or don't understand and take advantage of all the mark-ups in the ECIR archives as every set of mark-ups also includes a discussion that outlines what is being done and why.

--
Lavinia
Jan 2005, RI

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Self trimming guidance

lmittler@...
 

Ida Hammer offers online and in-person trimming classes. She is aligned with Pete’s methods (and friends with him). I highly recommend her program.

 https://mackinawdells2.com/class-schedule.html


Lisa Mittler
Barefoot Hoof Practitioner
South and Central Texas
January 2019


Re: Self trimming guidance

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Jean,

Be careful with the Strasser trim.  It usually involves carving out sole, trimming the hoof to "ideal" external angles that may IR may not reflect the position of the coffin bone, and in my opinion leaves the toes too long.  There has been a lot of criticism regarding that particular trim method.

--
Kirsten Rasmussen
Kitimat, BC, Canada


Re: question about self trimming

Bobbie Day
 

Pete has many wonderful dvd’s and books available. Ida is great about helping people too.
Many of us have just gotten a couple of good rasps, stands and or knifes and with Lavinia’s guidance just went for it.
You can do it, once your trim is in place you can just rasp about every week.


Re: question about self trimming

Jean
 

Thank you Robyn! Greatly appreciated

121 - 140 of 11625