Usually, the R-value is related to the thickness of the board - the thinner the board, the lower the R-value. You don't care about the R-value, just the thickness of the board, so go with the 2" thick one.

--
Lavinia
Jan 2005, RI

Moderator/ECIR Support

I saw styrofoam pads at ECSS Hoofcare products, but I'd rather have a sheet of styrofoam on hand that I can cut to size.

What kind of 2" thick construction-grade styrofoam do you source at a big box store like Home Depot? I find rigid styrofoam foam board for insulation in 4x8 ft sheets with about 5 different R-values. Do I want R-10? R-5? R-7? I don't think I can buy the blue board in California, only the pink board. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Owens-Corning-FOAMULAR-NGX-F-250-2-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-SSE-R-10-XPS-Rigid-Foam-Board-Insulation-52DDNGX/315197962

Differences described here:
 https://bernardibuildingsupply.com/buy-insulation-supplies-toronto/the-difference-between-blue-and-pink-foam-board-products/
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos 

Cass, not Ellen, but I have a Belota mini rasp. I like the full sized one better for my 3 week trims, but if I need to do a few quick swipes, I tend to grab the mini.


--
Kim 10-2014

Clover, SC

Case History https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Kim%20and%20Grits%20-%20Eeyore%20-%20Dually

Photo album Grits https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=1314

Photo album Eeyore https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=6586&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Dually https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=9046&p=Name,,,20,1,0,0
Photo album Bella https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/photosearch?q=kim+and+bella
 

Ellen, Would you let us know how you like the Mini Rasp? It may be perfect on little hooves. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos 

Thank you Cass and Kirsten for rasp and stand suggestions.  Before seeing your input Cass, I had already gone to look at the Bellota Top Sharp and saw the mini rasp.  I purchased it so now I'll see what that is like and if it doesn't work out I will 'upgrade' to the full size model.  And thank you Kirsten for the suggestion to mark the sole directly using the mark-ups.  Great idea.
Caring for these guys is always in for a penny, in for a pound!
--
Ellen and Crackers
July 2011, Goldendale, WA
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Ellen%20and%20Crackers
Crackers' Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=283371

FWIW, I bought the smaller Bellota mini rasp for my large pony-sized mare, but I never use it and prefer the full sized Bellota Top Sharp by far. The longer the tool, the greater the leverage. That makes each stroke with the rasp more effective so the touch-up goes faster.

I'm a big fan of a hoof stand for working on hooves, especially on the right side where I lack the coordination and strength to hold the hoof and rasp. I own a pony-sized Hoofjack knock-off that is similar to the Hoof Jack. 
--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos 

One suggestion: try drawing the blue dashed lines on the hoof with a Sharpie, especially on the sole.  Then use that as your guide.  You don't have to do it all in 1 day but if the Sharpie lines don't rub off you can keep using them to guide you. 

--
Kirsten Rasmussen

You could try both the rasps and see if you like one better.  I use a Bellota Top Sharp.  Bellota also makes a shorter mini rasp that would be easier yo handle on a small hoof and I've tried it but find it harder to use.  Feed Store rasps are no good, you need to have a farrier rasp.  There are all kinds of shapes and sizes out there.  If you post that question as a new topic you'll get lots of feedback on who likes what.

I think Hoofjack is the better brand on the market.  I have 1 too but I find it more trouble than not; however, if you have any back issues you will probably appreciate it.  When I shorten toes horizontally I let my horse rest his foot on the ground (a rubber mat), and I lay the rasp on the ground and go around the front of the hoof making a vertical trim surface until I have the toes back where I want them and the hoof looks rounded from above.  Then I pick up the hoof and bevel it at a 45 deg angle from the bottom.  This minimizes the time I'm holding up the hoof, and is physically easier for me and my horse.  I have a lot of trust in my horse not to step on me if he spooks; I would not do this with a horse I didn't have that kind of relationship with or that didn't respect my space.

I don't think you need to wait.  The sooner you start, the better.

Probably she opened up an abscess by shaving into the sole, that's the most likely reason he bled a bit, but his soles are quite thin and he needs every bit of sole that he has.  I can totally understand how upsetting that must have been for both of you.  Shortening the toes could uncover blood in the whiteline (pink or red staining), but that will be old and unless you hit another abscess track it won't seep out.

--
Kirsten Rasmussen

Hi Kirsten,

Thanks so much for the information but I've got some questions now:

I put a photo in my album of the two different rasps I have.  Which one is best to use? Or if neither, please suggest one.

I would also like to purchase a small hoof stand.  I was looking at this one - https://www.hoofjack.com/shop/hoofjack-complete/hoofjack-mini-green-base-with-post-cradle/p/11
Is this a good one or do you have any other suggestions?

Should I wait until my farrier can see the pictures of the mark ups until I start rasping weekly in between visits? 

I am sure she won't be willing to take the right front toe back as far as you recommend.  When she first started trimming for me, about the 2nd or 3rd visit, she was using the little knife to clean up the sole (we don't do that anymore!) and his foot bled.  She didn't shave much off.  I posted a photo of his right hoof sole and an oval showing where the bleeding was.  It bled for a bit but I disinfected it and put a panty liner on it and secured that with vet wrap.  He also wore his Cavallo boot over that.  I changed it every day and it healed up nicely.  But since then, she has definitely stayed away from the soles and is wary of making him bleed again. It was kind of scary.


--
Ellen and Crackers
July 2011, Goldendale, WA
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Ellen%20and%20Crackers
Crackers' Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=283371

PS. you also had 2 photo albums.  I deleted the extra one after confirming all the same photos from Feb 12 were in the album linked in your signature.

--
Kirsten Rasmussen

Hi Ellen,

I've uploaded markups into your album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=283371

Red lines are ideal "form", NOT trim lines, and NO material within the red lines should be removed.  Pink lines are current "form" for comparison.  Blue dashed lines are trim lines, or at the very least where the bevel should begin so that no material outside of these lines should contact the ground; however, if your trim interval is 6 weeks, then you need to be very aggressive in removing it all (if your trims were every week, then a gentle bevel to the blue line would be enough).

I see your trimmer did shorten the right front toe and that helped, but there is room to come back farther than that.  The toe was nowhere near the coffin bone on the rads, and even if you account for the amount she took off, there is still quite a bit of extra left.  If you look at the RF sole markup, its clear she has brought the toe back to where the sole has overgrown the white line.  But the sole that has overgrown the whiteline also needs to be removed, which is what I've drawn with the blue dashed line.  You can only cause bleeding if you rasp to within 2-3 mm of the coffin bone, so there is no need to fear it, your xrays show you are a long ways away from that.  You might see old dry blood in the whiteline as you go back, but this would be old damage that is growing out.

A couple notes:
- focus on shortening the toes; every 6 weeks will not be frequent enough, so I recommend buying a good rasp and doing a little bit yourself every week to maintain or improve on what your trimmer has done; use the markups as your guide every week
- do not remove any sole as its already thin on the fronts, and the hinds need to be build up in general
- do not lower any heels, except the left front which can come down just a few degrees to straighten out the hoof-pastern axis (HPA)

Dr Kellon and I agree that focusing on shortening the toes is the most important right now.  But one other observation we made was that the lateral heel on both right hooves is being left higher than the medial heel and causing the hoof capsule to twist, as you can see in the sole markups--especially on the right hind.  This type of imbalance is very common because its usually related to the trimmer's position while trimming, which varies depending on the side of the body they are working on, and it can be hard to see unless you take photos and examine them.  It suggests your trimmer has a tendency to lower the medial heel more on the right hooves only as we do not see this on the left hooves.  At this time, do NOT try to correct this by lowering the lateral heel to match the medial heel on the right hooves, because the heels first need to grow some height and become more upright.  Shortening the toes aggressively WILL help the heels stand up, as long as they are not being rasped down.

--
Kirsten Rasmussen

Thanks Carolyn, it does make sense.  I will go look for Dr. Bowker on you tube now.  

--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)  
Nevada County, CA - 2019


Case history:  Willie's Case History
Willie's photo album:  Willie's Photo Album

Hi Kirsten,

The newest photos are now uploaded.  Crackers was trimmed on Thursday Feb. 9th and pictures taken Sunday Feb. 12th.  I presented Dr. Kellon's radiograph evaluation to my farrier and she took back the toe on the right front as far as she was comfortable with.  She felt that any further would cause him to bleed.  Thankfully she agreed with Dr. Kellon's assessment. His next appointment is 6 weeks from now on March 23rd.  She didn't feel 4 week intervals were necessary.  She does travel 2 1/2 plus hours so if possible, I don't want to push it.  Crackers is comfortable and out of his padded Cavallo CLB's.
In the pictures, you will see a bruise on his left front.  The farrier believes it is not associated with the laminitis episode.  He did throw his little boot off one day when he was feeling frisky.  He gets his blood pulled for ACTH, Insulin and Glucose on Monday and when results received his case history will be updated.

Thank you,
--
Ellen and Crackers
July 2011, Goldendale, WA
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Ellen%20and%20Crackers
Crackers' Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=283371

We rasp toes back in between trims (4 week trim cycle), after listening to Dr. Bowker on The Humble Hoof podcast. You can search for him on YouTube. There’s a series of videos with him, including trimming videos. But in his podcast has says to just take a couple swipes with your the rasp. We are also working on bringing the heels of our horses back so we take a few swipes on the bottom of the foot to do that, rasp the toe from the bottom then use a hoof stand to rasp around the outside of the hoof. From the bottom, we rasp at about a 45 degree angle, I guess. I’m not exactly sure, we haven’t ever really accessed that. From the top, the rasp is pretty much level, except for a few
rasps around the toe (10-2) where we will angle the rasp so the toe is rounded off from the top to the bottom. Hopefully that makes sense!
--
Carolyn L in UT 2022

Case History: CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Case History

Photo Album: CaseHistory@ECIR.groups.io | Photo Album

I love Daisy's vids too.  I don't need to worry about thin soles, my horse has always had extremely thick front soles. I don't touch them myself, but when they are flaking and coming off my trimmer does remove what can easily come off.

I'm just trying to bring the toes back on all 4 in between trims. I don't need to do anything more than that. 

--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)  
Nevada County, CA - 2019


Case history:  Willie's Case History
Willie's photo album:  Willie's Photo Album

Hi Trisha 
Here’s another vid. Not a laminitic foot, just a long one.. 

https://youtu.be/n31fWhGvdeE

--
Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID)

Canberra, Australia 2010

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy/Dangles%20case%20history
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=933

I don't think you'll have hoof markups by the 9th, I'm sorry to say.  I feel bad after all your work getting photos, but there's some delays right now.  If you want to try again,  post-trim photos are good to work with because then you'll see how much more could actually be done at the trim.

General advice: do not lower the front heels and ask your trimmer to bring the toes back horizontally as far as they feel it is safe to do.  There's a lot of room to do this as they are very long on all 4 hooves, especially the fronts, and I'm certain your trimmer will not go back as far as needed, but if they can do "more than usual" that will help.

Being diplomatic about markups is very hard.  Some people have lost farriers over this.  Emphasize how grateful you are for everything she does, and how important your working relationship is, but you'd like to ask if she'd be humour you and be willing to try something new.  A very common symptom of long toes is tripping.  If you can demonstrate that he moves better after trimming them "shorter than usual" you might find she's more receptive to trying a bit more with time.

You could also post on the main Group and ask Dr Kellon for her general trim advice, if your trimmer will listen to a vet more readily.

--
Kirsten Rasmussen

Hi Kirsten,

I was mistaken about the next appointment date - it is actually February 9th.  If the markups cannot be done by then, do you want another full round of hoof photos including sole plane 1 & 2 after this trim? I thought my farrier would be interested in additional suggestions & guidance but she said she was only interested in what the vet said.  He didn't say anything and I'm not sure what kind of dorsal x-ray he took.  It doesn't look anything like in the files.  I wouldn't trust much of anything he would have to say about the hoofs anyway because he thinks Crackers is beyond his expiration date. 
How do you suggest I present mark ups to my farrier so she doesn't feel like I don't trust her because I do trust her and don't want to lose her.

Thanks so much! Crackers' movement has improved a lot - increase in CP (.5mg) started along with soaking tested hay must be helping.
--
Ellen and Crackers
July 2011, Goldendale, WA
Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Ellen%20and%20Crackers
Crackers' Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=283371

Thank you again Cass.  I've saved the video to watch when I'm off work later.  

So much great info/advice from everyone.  Thank you!


--
Joy and Willie (EC/IR)  
Nevada County, CA - 2019


Case history:  Willie's Case History
Willie's photo album:  Willie's Photo Album