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Re: Lateral-medial stepping

Maria Duran
 

Thank you very much Lavinia.
I thought the shoe would lessen not worsen an imbalance in the trim, so I guess it confims the issue is the trim as he wasn't doing this before the trim.

Thanks a lot.


Re: Lateral-medial stepping

Sherlene Turner
 

Hi Maria,
Do you have a video of your horse moving?
For standing still, Vet Scott Morrison created this guide: https://www.roodandriddle.com/services/equine-podiatry/hoof-capsule-distortion
In short, he says:
If the lateral heel is trimmed lower then the limb postures with a base narrow stance. If the medial heel is trimmed lower then the limb will have a base wide posture.

If the lateral toe is trimmed lower than the limb will take a toe in posture (pigeon toe) but if the medial toe is trimmed lower, then the limb will toe out (splayed).
--
Sherlene Klemens
Bundaberg, Qld, Australia
joined 2012


Re: Lateral-medial stepping

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

If there are imbalances in the trim you can get an uneven landing. This can be one side longer than the other, breakover that isn't aligned with the center of the leg, that is affecting the flight path of the limb. Having a shoe attached to onto an imbalanced trim will exacerbate any issues like this.

Pain in some part of the foot or leg could also affect the way it lands as the horse attempts to keep from bearing full weight on the painful part. Usually, however, this means there is just obvious lameness.

If you want to see it better, have someone walk the horse for you while you video him walking toward you. Hold the camera steady and down low. Also, take a video of the horse walking past you, again with the camera at leg level. Then you can watch the video, slowing it down if needed to watch various parts of the leg/foot as it moves.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Lateral-medial stepping

Maria Duran
 

As suggested per Dr. Kellon I ask here. I thought being Yayo a PPID horse it belonged to ECIR Group sorry.

Hi all,

I have noticed that Yayo steps in two times with his right front hoof, first lateral then medial side. It is veeery obvious. This is the hoof that was more painful after the trim.

I have tried to find out if the heels or hoof wall is longer in lateral than in medial side but it is very difficult with the shoe on. It seems to be fine but I don't know.

- What can cause the lateral first landing?

- Is there any other likely reason like avoiding pain in a joint or at hoof sole level or only related to the trim? 

- If he lands first with the lateral side, this mean that lateral is longer not shorter, right. ?

Thank you very much.

María Durán.
Madrid, Spain.


Re: Zuni update

Kati Indigo
 

I wasn't sure how it would work out & we were praying for a miracle!


Re: Boot Advice

Lynn
 

Thanks Lavinia and Cass! I'll start implementing this plan when i go out on Tuesday for his trim...I had planned to take him into the arena beforehand any way for some exercise. We'll start with just boots on front, no rider, then no boots, no rider. And I agree about the stumbling/tripping Cass. I just watched a video my friend took of us riding up and down the big creek on the farm (chest deep water in places on a rocky bottom) even on that surface he never tripped/stumbled before all this started. He was a happy guy playing in the water, blowing bubbles....Thanks again so much!
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History 
Relevante Photo Album
Ω


Re: Zuni update

Patricia Evans
 

That is such great news! I had been wondering about you guys. 
--
Patricia 
North central Florida
July 7 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patricia%20and%20Dancer%20and%20Nathan
Dancer:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=66069

Nathan:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=94152


Re: Boot Advice

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

agree with Cass on this.

Start in the arena, riderless. You can experiment with only hind boots off and see how he reacts. Then take the fronts off as well and reassess. If he seems fine, then go thru the same process adding the rider. Initially, you can use no boots indoors and boot outdoors while he builds comfort barefoot again. Then start the same process to acclimate him to barefoot outdoors. You can always backtrack to boots at any ppoint as needed.

Just listen to what Relevante tells you about his comfort level.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Boot Advice

 

I read somewhere if you boot you should boot all four feet.
---------------------------------
I never heard that for normal terrain. If you're riding over rock mountains and moving at speed, yes, all 4 hooves are booted for protection.

If you're going to test his hoof tenderness, I'd watch him on arena footing first without a rider, if possible. Be sure to let him warm up. Take video and watch it, with an experienced rider if necessary. Then try under saddle, if he seems fine without a rider. Again, take video. After watching your video, post a link here if you have any question about what you're seeing. Seeing lameness and knowing normal movement takes some experience, and having the luxury of a video is really helpful.  

Sitting on him, you should be able to feel every misstep. No excuses about "stumbling because he's heavy on the forehand" or "he tripped." He should move without hesitation and with no signs of pain, no stumbling or tripping. Even timing. Gaited horses are a little more complicated because it's soooo much easier to see lameness at the trot, but every horse can do a regular walk. 

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos 


Re: Boot Advice

Lynn
 

Hi Tracy and Suzy....after reading/studying i have a feeling this is going to be a somewhat evolutionary process with us ending up with a little "wardrobe" of boots..LOL...Tracy - i was looking at the Renegades and we may not be ready for those yet if I'm reading the information properly.  I believe what they deem as "unnatural heel height" puts us in the category of not suitable. https://renegadehoofboots.com/hoof-conformation.html
Right now because we are trying to move Relevante's heels back to their proper position I think his heels are what they are calling "unnatural heel height." I could be totally wrong so feel free to correct me. We won't be lowering his heels until he gets to the right angle which as Lavinia cautioned me is a process that doesn't happen overnight. Right now it's far too muddy, icy to ride outside in my opinion (though some are riding outside). I may be over cautious but if I'm slipping I can't imagine trying to ride Relevante over those surfaces. So we are doing all of our conditioning work in the arena. We're also doing fun things like small obstacle courses (he was not impressed with the cheese grater) and poles etc. So i may need to consider one of the other options for now that is more flexible. I'm definitely going to ask my farrier about the fitting shells. He is coming Tuesday. Yesterday he did better but was still vascilating between corto, largo and cantering...LOL...and no one can really help because we are a lone Paso in a sea of quarter horses...LOL...so I really appreciate everyone's helpful input here! Also hearing about each of your experiences is really informative as well! Appreciate everyone's time.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History 
Relevante Photo Album
Ω


Re: Boot Advice

suzy zarek
 

I buy them from the link Cass put up. Jenny is very helpful. I only use them on the front of my gaited Morgan. I use them on all 4 on my laminitic ponies at times when I drive them but most of the time just the fronts. I was going to ask why the hinds were so much smaller when you said 0 first. One size difference is common.
--
Suzy Nebraska 2019


Re: Boot Advice

Tracy
 

I should have known there were several Paso people here on ECIR!
I have tried several boots and the clunky ones like Old Macs - mess up Salsa's gaiting.
He goes well in his Renegade Viper boots.  I just boot the front feet for trail riding.  Never have had a Viper come off and I've ridden in some serious mud.  Salsa uses his corto mostly (side note -  I LOVE a nice largo!),
The regular Renegades did not fit him at all.  I found a farrier that had the 'fitting shells' for both the Renegade and the Viper - so if you can get your hands on those to try - do it. I would have thought by measurements that the old Renegades would have worked - but they absolutely did not.  The fitting shells saved me a lot of grief.
I also have a pair of Scoot boots.  They are not as 'thick soled' as the Vipers.  The Scoots are far more 'flexible'.  For Salsa I got them thinking I would use them for his hind feet while riding (to give a little protection)....but one came off (which I noticed and got it back).  I have since used the Scoot on his front feet in his dry lot last fall when he was a little ouchy etc...
The Scoot boots are a bit easier to put on (but you still have to muscle that strap over that peg a bit) - but the Vipers are the 'go to' for riding.
It did take me a bit of "messing around" with the Vipers to get the cables adjusted where I like them....and they take an extra second to get on - but you don't have to fight them to get them on either.
However - now that I put Hoof Armor on after every trim (yesterday was 4th application) - he walks in the gravel around the barn when I let him out for exercise, he paws at the gravel sometimes and even stands in it with a back leg hitched for a nap.  Maybe this spring when it dries out and we can go ride I can use the Scoot boots on his front now.  Hmmmm.

Tracy and Salsa (IR and PPID)
Fall 2019


Re: Boot Advice

Lynn
 

Hi Kirsten,

Thanks so much for the input! And thanks for giving me a contact. Some helpful ideas from everyone here. That is awesome that you saw such an improvement in your boy! Relevante also primarily uses the largo gait but he can fino with the best of them if he gets excited and decides to do it on his own. Since he is a rescue i'm still trying to figure him out so don't really know how to ask for it. And it's really not important to me. I just want to help him gain some physical conditioning back and be able to enjoy the trails with him.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History 
Relevante Photo Album
Ω


Re: Boot Advice

Lynn
 

Hi Cass - spent the day at the farm riding and caring for the boy. That's a good question. When i got him and until he had laminitus in Sept 2017 he was barefoot with no issues, even over creeks with rocky bottoms. This is where my ignorance (though i'm trying to educate myself in this area) comes into play. He only had laminitis in his front feet and it was caught immediately and within a week he was moving about. When we began rehabilitation (hand walking only) he was a little ouchy on the gravel so I booted him, problem solved. I read somewhere if you boot you should boot all four feet. I would love to be able to do just the fronts. Rads taken after the laminitus showed thin soles of course but those have improved as nothing has been taken off the sole since we started corrective trims with Lavinia in April 2018. He's trimmed every 4 weeks. So would i just try in the arena first and see what happens? I would love to be able to boot just the fronts but obviously want to do what is best for him. Thanks for your tips and advice - so appreciated! 
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History 
Relevante Photo Album
Ω


Re: Boot Advice

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Lynn, Equine Fusion boots can be ordered online here too:
http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/jogging-shoe-orders.html
Jenny is really great to deal with if you have questions.  She was also my barefoot trim advisor when Shaku had his crisis.

I would choose the "AT (all terrain sole) Ultra" for our very rocky and cobbly trails here, but the thinner sole of the Ultra would be a little less clunky and I'm not 100% sure if the AT Ultra is machine washable like the Ultra is (it sounds like it but I would ask if that's important to you).  The rubber dampening pads are thin but effective and can be doubled up for sensitive soles if needed.

Shaku has a largo gait, so no fancy high stepping.  When I switched from metal shoes to boots I noticed a huge difference in how he stepped out, he went from straggling behind to wanting to be in the lead!  We have never lost a boot, in creeks or mud or gaiting...yet!  I'm really hoping this will be the year we can start seriously tackling our trails again.

--
Kirsten Rasmussen
Kitimat, BC, Canada


Re: Boot Advice

 

Hi, Lynn. Does Relevante still need boots? What is the terrain/footing you want boots for? If he needs boots in front, does he need them behind too?

I'm not riding any more, but when I rode Cayuse on our gravel road, I used Renegades in front, nothing behind. When we worked on gait, I did it on a slope on natural soil. In the round pen with arena footing, she doesn't need boots. She's different from a Paso, as she's all push from behind and nothing fancy in front (not a fancy walker). The biggest issue she has is over-reaching, so the lowest profile boot is the best. I can get the Renegades on even with my arthritic hands and wrists. I did have a trimmer fit them for me. That was wonderful. There's a new model, Renegade Viper. Check the sizes.
https://www.renegadehoofboot.com  

--
Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012
ECIR Group Moderator
Cayuse Case History                Cayuse Photos
Diamond Case History              Diamond Photos 


Re: Zuni update

Lesley Fraser
 

What great news!

Best wishes

Lesley & over the bridge Omar,
UK, 2012


Re: Boot Advice

Lynn
 

Hi Diann - thanks for the info! You are right about Paso's being challenging...we went through 3 different sizes of Cavallos (and they were so great - went to amazing lengths with photos/video/phone conversations to get the best fit - he "measured" zero but while they went on they wouldn't begin to close - hence having to size up). I will check out the Scoots - maybe custom fit is the way to go. Thanks again.
--
Lynn
Beavercreek, Ohio
March 2018
Relevante Case History 
Relevante Photo Album
Ω


Re: Boot Advice

 

Have you looked at Scoot Boots?  They have a slim also.  No boot stays on ALL the time.  Paso's can be challenging.  Scoots have some modifications to custom fit the boots.  There are also 'other' ways to firm up the fit.  Renegades are the Easiest to get on and off.  I have used both types on Pasos.  Go to the web sit, it will tell you how to send info to them so they can help you get the right size.
Good luck

Diann Kuzma
One Hoof at a Time
Joined 2018


Re: Zuni update

Deborah Ide
 

Yay! Good news!

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