Date   

Re: Does anyone have a draft cross that is "barefoot"?

Barbara Rosensteel
 

Thank you everyone for your responses.  It is as I thought but I am glad to have it reinforced with your own experiences.   It is fortunate that there is a good barefoot trimmer working in this area. 
I can't share photos because I have not bought the horse yet.  Actually haven't even met him yet, but hope to this week.

Thanks,

Barbara


Re: Report on Flex boots WAS Re: Glue-on boots with pads

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Hi Maxine, I'm glad they are working well for you and thanks for sharing those detsils! 

I'm looking forward to jogging with--and riding--Shaku in them this spring.  The dealer I bought from mentioned they are less grippy in snow than the Equine Fusion boots she sells so I can see they might be less grippy on other surfaces.  

I really like how easy on and off they are, that they stay on, and there is no rubbing or big debris getting in to the boot.  Also love that I can change out the gators daily or whenever they are wet, do a quick rinse and wipe of the rubber, we have a clean dry boot to pop back on!  For turnout in a wet climate, this is really great!

--
Kirsten Rasmussen
Kitimat, BC, Canada


Re: Does anyone have a draft cross that is "barefoot"?

Anne Coull
 

Agreed. I have all my draught and draught cross horses barefoot. It is much better for the horse.
You will have a happier, healthier horse if you keep their hooves tidy with regular trimming; and manage their diet so it is high fiber and low GI.

Kind regards
Anne

On 18 Dec 2020, at 4:51 am, Lavinia Fiscaletti <shilohmom@...> wrote:

No, drafts and draft crosses do NOT have to be in shoes just because they are drafts. If their feet are trimmed correctly, they can be barefoot just like any other breed. The most common issue is that their feet are erroneously allowed to get too flared and overgrown to allow them to be functional.

I have personally had several of them, barefoot, no problem. I trim several others that are also perfectly fine as long as their feet are maintained at their genetically programmed size, not at what we "think" they should be.

--
Lavinia
Jan 2005, RI

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Report on Flex boots WAS Re: Glue-on boots with pads

Mary M.
 

I love my Flex boots. Have been using them since July even in our arena as it is quite firm on the track. The Kevlar pads work well, the heel wears down after a while, but that does not seem to affect performance. Glad you like them. 

Mary Marzec, Chelsea MI, 2012
Mary/Katie Case HIstory


Re: Used hoof boots

 

Deb, I too have a supply of used hoof boots I'll give you for the cost of shipping.  Let me know what kind and what size and I might have what you need.  

Jeannie
2001 MA


Re: Used hoof boots

Deb Walker
 

Ughhh. Thanks everyone.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R & PPID
Northwest Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Re: Does anyone have a draft cross that is "barefoot"?

Sherry Morse
 

Hi Barbara,

I'm sure Lavinia will have more to say on this but in my experience with work horses (3 Belgians and a Percheron) the large weight/size reason for shoeing is not true.  Our guys were barefoot and we did all our field work with them (living history farm) with no issues.  However, we had a farrier who didn't believe that all draft horse feet should be dinner plates and flare and crack all over.  He kept the boys trimmed properly and we didn't have any issues with them that I can recall.  If you can share pictures of the trim we can offer you more advice on this specific horse. 
--
Sherry and Scutch (and Scarlet over the bridge)
EC Primary Response 
PA 2014
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Sherry%20and%20Scutch_Scarlet 
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=78891


Re: Does anyone have a draft cross that is "barefoot"?

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

No, drafts and draft crosses do NOT have to be in shoes just because they are drafts. If their feet are trimmed correctly, they can be barefoot just like any other breed. The most common issue is that their feet are erroneously allowed to get too flared and overgrown to allow them to be functional.

I have personally had several of them, barefoot, no problem. I trim several others that are also perfectly fine as long as their feet are maintained at their genetically programmed size, not at what we "think" they should be.

--
Lavinia
Jan 2005, RI

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Does anyone have a draft cross that is "barefoot"?

Judy and Bugsy
 

My brother-in-law uses Belgians for heavy horse pulls and some of his horses are 2000 lbs + - they don’t need shoes.   My sister has a draft cross (about 1600 lbs) and he’s never had shoes on him his entire life and he is now 20 and just fine barefoot. 


Re: Does anyone have a draft cross that is "barefoot"?

nevabeta
 

Hi Barbara,
I’ve owned 4 draft crosses over the last 20+ years. My two Shire/TB crosses (halfs) I had from weanlings and were never shod. I had them trimmed every 6 weeks and aside from the occasional abscess, they were never unsound. My current Clyde/TB is also huge (15-1600 lbs 17.2-3, like the others) & has never been shod either. His hind feet have a tendency toward developing a crack on the out/lateral side. The vet who did the PPE said he would never be able to go barefoot, but farrier said if trimmed religiously every 5 weeks he should be ok. Farrier was thankfully correct and horse has never been unsound or had abscess in the 7 years I’ve had him. Newest cross is Percheron/Appendix; he came to me with front shoes which I pulled and he is also fine barefoot.
My horses are used for trail riding a few times a week over semi rocky terrain here in northern NJ. They live out 24/7 on similar footing.
HTH.
Best,
Aimée


Report on Flex boots WAS Re: Glue-on boots with pads

Maxine McArthur
 

Hi Kirsten and all
Only two rides so far in our new Flex boots; no complaints yet. The first day I just tried them on and made some adjustments to where the gaiter sits and which slots the side straps go through, then rode in them the next day. I have their kevlar pads in the boots. We did a 11km ride on dirt and gravel fire trails, some rocky sections. Several good-sized hills. Walk, trot, a couple of canters. The boots didn't twist or rub at all. The only difference in gait was when she picked her way a bit more slowly than usual down a slippery gravel hill (I was leading)--possibly the Flex have less traction than a hard boot with more aggressive tread like Gloves or Renegades (our usual boots). Or maybe it just felt different in a more flexible boot. 
When the boots were removed, there was a smidge of pebbly sand in the back of the gaiter. 
This morning I tried them again, in a wet sand arena (hard sand, not deep) on the lunge. Nice forward movement from the horse, no twisting of the boots, and no sand at all in the back of the boot. 
They are easy to put on, do up, and take off. Probably about the same ease as Renegades, without the skin-shredding velcro. 
The only downside I have found so far is that the neoprene does get grass seeds stuck in the outside. I wouldn't use them for turnout in summer for that reason. 
I don't think the kevlar pads are magic, but they do look like they will last longer than the black EVA easycare pads. I'm hoping for mileage similar to the red easycare pads. 

I'm not sold on the breakover, but Indy seems to land well in them (not toe-first), so maybe it works okay. The hoof certainly seated itself better in the boot as our ride continued. Next time I lunge I'll take a slo-mo video to check landings. Like Shaku, Indy is probably closer to a 115 sizing straight after a trim, but by about week 2.5 of our 3-4 week trim cycle, she will be closer to the 120.

I did cut about 2mm off the top of the front of the boot--Indy has a short hoof capsule, and I wanted to be sure there was no chance of the top of the boot rubbing on her coronet band. Tres easy to do with kitchen scissors. 

Hope this helps anybody interested in trying these. 



On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 02:18 AM, Kirsten Rasmussen wrote:
Maxine, I've been using Flexboots on Shaku's fronts now for several weeks, so I should update you on them.

Shaku is between sizes.  I could cram his hoof into a 110 but there was no way pads would fit in there with his hoof, and he really needs pads for his very thin soles.  Plus the dorsal angle on the 110 boot seemed shallower than on the 120 boot, which meant his hoof didn't go in all the way to the toe of the boot.  And because his pasterns are big, II would have had to use the straps and gator from the 120's to close up the boot.  The 120s are technically too big but even in them Shaku's toe doesn't quite touch the toe of the boot, but the breakover is back far enough on the boot that I am satisfied (I like the 360 degree breakover on the boots!).   Despite being on the big side, I am using the 120s with 12mm black Easy Care pads (the Flexboot pads aren't as thick or conformable) that seems to keep them on snug enough that they don't twist.  I also am using an athletic sock over his hoof with foot powder to minimize moisture buildup between the hoof and pad because he has them on for turn-out 22/7.  Also, the way the pad conforms to the hoof and the grooves in the bottom of the boot seems to prevent the pad or boot from twisting.  Because of Shaku's recent laminitis I haven't been able to really test the boots riding or trotting in tight circles, but they have done well for turnout and he seems comfortable in them.  Except one morning I came out after we had a big overnight storm and I found the boots off his hooves, but still dangling around his pasterns from the upper straps.  Somehow he must have spooked and managed to literally jump out of his boots (and socks, which were laying side by side as if someone had carefully taken them off)...no idea how it could have happened!   No damage to the boots though, and just a confused look on Shaku's face in the morning.

I love how easy they are to put on, the straps are much easier on my fingers than his Scoots, and I love that I can change the gator daily when it gets damp from rain.  Plus with the padding, the rubber of the boot is well below the coronet and the only thing that touches his skin anywhere is the soft neoprene gator.  A little debris does get in the drainage holes, but the pads help to block that.   Mostly it's just a little sand, but I have found imprints in the hoof pads showing that the odd small pebble got in.

Overall I am very happy with them.  I just wish they had a 115 size to try as that might be a better fit, but I think the 120s with pads will be fine for the kind of trail riding I do.  I'd love to hear how they work out for you!

--
Kirsten Rasmussen
Kitimat, BC, Canada

 


Does anyone have a draft cross that is "barefoot"?

Barbara Rosensteel
 

I am going to look at a draft cross to buy, a Belgian/TB.  I haven't been to see him yet, but he is big (16.3hh, 1500 lbs).  He is shod all around.  The seller told me that draft horses always need to be shod, at least on the front, because of their large size/weight.   I would really like to have a horse that can be transitioned to"barefoot".  Do any of you have experience with draft crosses and whether they can be transitioned to barefoot?    I am going to use him for dressage (low-level....I have just started learning it in earnest this year), and light trail riding.

Thanks,
Barbara


Re: Used hoof boots

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

Unfortunately, most of these types of sites have moved to Facebook. The one we used to mention a lot was on the old Yahoo group :(

--
Lavinia
Jan 2005, RI

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Used hoof boots

Bobbie Day
 

Deb,
The only one I mentioned is a Facebook group.
What are you looking for?
If you want to message me privately I have a pretty good supply of used boots maybe I have something that you could use.


Used hoof boots

Deb Walker
 

I know I saw somewhere on this site a link to a place to buy/trade/sell used hoof boots. I have tried searching and cannot find a link. I did a google search and most of the sites I found were facebook...I do not *do* facebook. If someone could point me in the right direction, I would appreciate it. Thank you.
--
Deb and Scotty I/R & PPID
Northwest Illinois, May 13, 2019
Case History:
 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty
Photos:
https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619


Re: Cavallo Simple Boots Are Uncomfortable

Jeanne Q
 

Jan if you will look further down in these messages Ive posted about the Recovery's.
A quick update would be that Glory is much more comfortable in them vs. the Clouds.  She wears the EF Recovery's every day now.
--

Jeanne and Glory
Minnesota
Jan 2020 



Re: Cavallo Simple Boots Are Uncomfortable

Jan D
 

Has anyone tried the Equine fusion recovery boot?

Jan
Indiana
2002


Re: Glue-on boots with pads

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Shirley,

No worries and no apologies necessary. Sorry you are experiencing difficulties. Please don't hesitate to just let us know where you are stuck so we can get you and Olaf the help you need.

You are currently posting on the ECIR Hoof sub-group, which is for horses that are neither IR nor PPID, plus for all general discussions regarding feet: booting pros and cons, types of boots, general trim discussions, etc. Sherry has already provided answers to your most recent questions regarding booting. Hopefully, that will get you started.

Any specific questions you have regarding Olaf would be better asked on the main ECIR group, where all discussions regarding horses with IR/PPID are held. Here's the link to the messages there:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/messages?expanded=1

Did you see the Welcome Message that was posted to you on the main ECIR group? If not, here's the link to it:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/messages?expanded=1

That message contains a LOT of info that may answer many of your questions. If not, please don't be shy about asking for what you need.

Regarding Olaf's trim: the toes are still much too long horizontally. There is also sinking, which is part of the reason he is having difficulties with sole depth. The soles are not as thin as it may appear at first becuse the radiographs are being taken from below the foot and are shooting thru the blocks he is standing on, which are obscuring some of the sole that is present. There are definite wall flares present, as well as some medio-lateral imbalances. All of that is fixable with the correct trim. The "white line disease" that you were seeing was more likely stretched white line due to the extensive laminar wedge that is present, rather than to actual white line disease. It won't be permanently fixed until the trim realigns the hoof capsule so that it tightly conforms to the structures within. Then the damaged material needs to grow out.

As Sherry mentioned, his TRH stim test results are questionable as the test was run in Sept 2020, which is during the fall seasonal rise period, when there are no seasonally adjusted lab references ranges available to compare the results against. He is, however, compensated IR based on his insulin and glucose test results. Was the blood work pulled fasting or non-fasting?

--
Lavinia
Jan 2005, RI

Moderator/ECIR Support


Re: Cavallo Simple Boots Are Uncomfortable

Kirsten Rasmussen
 

Although that said, if he's ok at -20C then you're probably not going to get winter laminitis with Bugsy.  The only time Shaku shows tenderness in the winter is when the ground freezes and gets icy, otherwise cold temps and snow don't bother him at all.  So that might be Bugsy's situation, too?

The Flexboots ARE nice for underrun heels though since how tight you fasten them at the back is customized to the horse's hoof, where other boots could rub the heel bulbs more...

Bobbie, I also bought a pair of Cavellos at 40% off, I just couldn't resist the "Bling" ELB model for fun, but not likely to do much riding in them...they are too pretty!

--
Kirsten Rasmussen
Kitimat, BC, Canada


Re: Cavallo Simple Boots Are Uncomfortable

Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Think of hoof boots as being like our plain rubber boots - work to protect from the elements and hard ground but unless they are lined, your feet freeze in them when the temps drop. None of the hoof boots are going to provide warmth by themselves because none of them are insulated. Although all the boots provide some degree of concussive/wear protection, you need to add socks or some other type of insulating layer inside the boot to provide the warmth factor. You can also use shipping boots that cover the foot to help with insulation. How much insulation is needed depends on how sensitive to the cold a particular individual is.

Definitely use blankets on the horse as that keeps the body itself warm so that there is less of a demand for blood to be shunted away from the extremities to conserve heat for the body core.

--
Lavinia
Jan 2005, RI

Moderator/ECIR Support

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