dkhoof said :

>>>>I am going out on a limb here,, I do not agree with the flat statement 'never touch the frog'.  There is still a lot of the Dr's articles that I need to be read.  The frog is overtrimmed by many people, due to lack of understanding. I am guilty of this also.  There is a BIG difference between a healthy functional frog and a damaged, unhealthy one. I usually knife the sides, vertically, to clean up loose ends.  Then probe around a bit if the frog looks questionable.  On several healthy looking frogs, I  have found thrush pockets and thrush deep in the collateral groove.  If I 'Never touch the frog' than this infection would get worse.  Causing heel pain, causing lameness.  I have even seen a perfectly looking frog, big and healthy, only to find a HUGE thrush pocket just under the thick outer layer.  I spend more time on inspecting and trimming the frog than any other part of the hoof.  Well, Bars being next. The frog is not respected enough, granted.  That is all <<<

Dear dk hoof

Don't forget to sign your posts for us. 

Once you have read the two proceedings, let us know of any more comments or questions.

An open central sulcus does not harbor thrush.  A deep central sulcus does.  That is fixed via correctly balanced diet and a trim to correct the toe and heels causing this problem.  Again, see Bowker's proceedings.

https://www.ecirhorse.org/proceedings-2015.php

https://www.ecirhorse.org/proceedings-2017.php

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
DDT+E = effective treatment for PPID and EMS/IR equines: https://bit.ly/2J4ZgYT

 

Nancy, I totally agree that the frog and the Whole back of the foot are not respected as much as it should.  Diet And Trim help to heal these areas.  I do not want to get to far off my base statement that Careful trimming the frog is necessary to help it heal.  By carefully trimming, (with a very sharp knife, to take small pieces off) I have found lots of thrush and thrush pockets that if left untreated will cause caudial issues.  Just the other day I was trimming a 3yo, on pasture, that had i not taken the flaps off at the base of the CG, I would not have seen all of the Foxtails stuck in the CG.  That weed could have worked its way up into the capsule,, causing lots of damage.  
I like Lorna's comment "never, unless necessary"
Diann Kuzma
Medford, OR
dkhoof@...

Agree inspection is warranted.

Hope you will please read Dr Bowker's proceedings.  There's lots more to consider in how we create an environment for a healthy functioning frog that resists thrush and provides the correct support and dissipation of vibration.

Maybe you are already doing this, but hope you will have a read.
--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
DDT+E = effective treatment for PPID and EMS/IR equines: https://bit.ly/2J4ZgYT

 

What if the frog is thick and extends beyond the wall, causing to bear more than its fair share of the load?
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Claire Gilmore
Nacogdoches, TX 
joined 3/28/2019
Case history folder: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Claire%20G%20and%20horses
Photo album:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=88371

Hi Claire

There are times when you need to remove stuff. Where we fall down is in making the judgement for the horse based on the rules we learned somewhere instead of asking the horse what he wants. 

In laminitic horses the frog can be quite large. It is not healthy however but is caused by blood supply not being able to get where it needs to go (ref. Bowker on the frog). 

Deciding on frog removal is like any other decision. It must take the whole structure into consideration. When the horse is trimmed I would ask him to move on a conformable surface before removing any frog.  Is he moving well with good smooth fetlock joint movement?  When you put the foot down does he load it or pop right up, unlocking his knee?  If the balance is right on and he,s not happy and moving better, a sliver of frog to lower it to level of hoof height may be in order. 

Caveat — I check my horses every day and could remove more if needed. This is the benefit of more frequent trims. We recommend trimming laminitic horses every two weeks. You trimmer may feel she needs to remove a little more to get to the next visit. Jus keep in mind what happens next time. If you are on jherb and a mineral balanced diet, you’ll get faster foot growth and may not need to remove frog even to lower heels the next time. Just bear it in mind. 

HTH


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
DDT+E = effective treatment for PPID and EMS/IR equines: https://bit.ly/2J4ZgYT