I’m just wondering what causes severe rotation and sinking if Cushing’s/IR has been ruled out?
i came across someone seeking help on hoof rehab page and says horse tested negative for Cushing’s?

Hi Bobbie,

There must be more reasons but the ones I know are:

- Endotoxemia caused by systemic infection like pneumonia, placenta retention, etc.
- Endotoxemia caused by grain overload.
- Endotoxemia caused by a toxic or infectious diarrhea.
- In a severe case of mechanical stress and not very sound hooves like a traumatism in the left leg, the horse doesn´t put weight on that leg and puts too much stress in the other one over a long period of time.

Any one can correct me as I am referring to endotoxemia to a general systemic infection but I am not sure of being using correctly this term.

María Durán.

Another possibility is PPID/IR has not been tested properly or have been ruled out when it wasn´t the case, as we can see so many times in the ECIR. Lab ranges are not correct.

María.

Thanks Maria,
This particular horse foundered , apparently left out to pasture and has coffin bone starting to exit.
IR/Cushing’s was my first thought but was told tests were all negative. BUT upon digging further it was just a panel not ones required for proper diagnosis.
I’m just curious because I know a lot of ppl that keep their horses on pasture almost year around that have never foundered.
So something has to be the culprit, weather it be IR or something else?

- Endotoxemia: from whatever cause (grain overload, retained placenta, illness of some sort). Diarrhea is an effect/result of endotoxemia, not a cause.
- Opposing limb laminitis: one leg is being overloaded due to the inability of the companion leg to bear its fair share of the weight.
- Diseases: Lyme, for example, can cause nasty laminitis in-and-of-itself, with no underlying endocrinopathic issues.
- Mechanics: trim doesn't tightly support the internal structures. Whether the animal is shod or bare, the trim needs to be correct. All consistently shod horses will show some amount of sinking over time due to being completely suspended from their laminae all the time, with no compensatory help from the frog/soles/bars. If these already compromised feet then suffer an additional insult of some sort, more severe rotation/sinking will occur.
- Ingesting something toxic: selenium overload can cause hoof capsules to slough off completely.
- Starvation: affects every system. Combined with the neglect of the mechanics that usually accompanies this, the feet can fall apart in multiple ways.
- Environment: standing constantly submerged in urine/manure can eat a hoof away from the outside inward, destroying the hoof capsule.

Neglect will show up in a variety of ways. In this scenario, IR/PPID are definitely a possibility as there hasn't actually been any testing done to confirm/negate those possibilities. If the hooves weren't being trimmed, mechanical issues likely contributed. Something toxic being ingested is also a possibility, although less likely if regular blood work panels were done (CBC, Chem Profile) and results came back with no red flags. IF starvation is involved, that's another stressor.

If a horse doesn't have elevated insulin levels (isn't IR), the unpredictable sugar levels in pasture will not be an issue.
Although we are hyper-aware of this issue, there are many horses out there that have no problems with IR. There are also a lot of horses that may not have foundered significantly but are having less severe problems that just haven't been properly diagnosed.

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Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 03:18 PM, Bobbie Day wrote:

Thanks Maria,
This particular horse foundered , apparently left out to pasture and has coffin bone starting to exit.
IR/Cushing’s was my first thought but was told tests were all negative. BUT upon digging further it was just a panel not ones required for proper diagnosis.
I’m just curious because I know a lot of ppl that keep their horses on pasture almost year around that have never foundered.
So something has to be the culprit, weather it be IR or something else?

Maybe he wasn´t properly diagnosed.

On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 07:18 PM, Lavinia Fiscaletti wrote:

 Diarrhea is an effect/result of endotoxemia, not a cause.

True, thanks for the correction.

María.

The pony that I was speaking of was PTS, I tried to talk the owner in joining to get opinions as to why this happened but I was told he was in too much pain, I certainly agree that you need to consider quality of life but if it were me I would at least be interested in knowing why it happened in the first place.
I sent a pair of boots hoping he could be made more comfortable until she could explore options. I don’t know this person or the horses history so I’m choosing not to judge but I must admit I’m a little disappointed that she didn’t join and take advantage of all the knowledge here.
Thanks Maria, Lavinia

It always saddens me to hear this but it can be the kindest option when the needed diagnosis and management changes can't be implemented.

Thank-you for trying to help the little guy, Bobbie.

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Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support

You are amazingly generous Bobbie!

María.