Ugh. This is my 3rd summer with Sully and this year we have major cracking issues going on the with the hooves.  Worse up front...
Anyone else having issues this year due to the weather? they wear fly boots to help with stomping, and he is in composite nail on shoes for our endurance season.  He is on a diet balanced as well as I can without testing (new pasture this spring, not as muddy when things do get wet).

I thought hoof conditioners and stuff were all 'bogus' so I don't do them. am I wrong?

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Griffin 

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Prophecy (IR) Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy (IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115

Sleek N Wow (non IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=65070 

Griffin,
Here is a link to a recent newsletter from Dr Kellon about cracking hooves. You can subscribe to receive her newsletters via email. 

https://drkhorsesense.wordpress.com/2020/07/02/dry-hooves-are-not-inevitable/

I  thought the timing of receiving her newsletter just before your question was excellent. Because your horses live in a red clay area I would imagine that they frequently have their hooves coated in that red clay soil. IME clay will absorb moisture, meaning it would dry those hooves excessively. In this case you might consider using a barrier on the hoof walls, such as Keratex. I used to board a horse in Northern VA and I used "Mushers Secret" which is a waxy product designed for dog paws. It has to reapplied more often than the Keratex.
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Bonnie Snodgrass 07-2016

ECIR Primary Response 

White Cloud, Michigan, USA

Mouse Case History, Photo Album

 

Ok, maybe I will do the topical route... and I subscribed thanks Bonnie :)

Ellen,
I will get new hoof photos this week as the farrier is coming (6w this cycle, usually we reset at 5 but kind of at the mercy of other person in the area she comes for in scheduling).  We have had a few issues this go round and had her out twice since they were first put on to fix shoes (RF he was lame due to position of shoe (reset and he was fine), and pulled off hinds (was trying a softer version and had too much flex for his movement apparently)).

His BC is really nice right now since being home I can feed 2xday reliably to make sure he gets everything per day (he can be a harder keeper):
4lbs Ultium, 4oz KIS trace, scoop 60% MagOx, 2000 IU Vit E, 1/4c chia, 8oz Purina Super Sport. 

I started a google album I'll update with more pics since that seems easier than the email route!  https://photos.app.goo.gl/LxFJRm8g7kKqgy5v9
Note that pics show sparse grass, but that is just up near the gate and where they eat so has gotten beaten up more :)
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Griffin 

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Prophecy (IR) Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy (IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115

Sleek N Wow (non IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=65070 

I haven't checked the ingredients in Keratex lately but I so clearly remember Doug Butler's reply to my question during a letcure he gave. I asked about using Keratex and he simply answered if you want to put a toxic product on your horse go ahead. Yikes, as I slumped in my seat.

Tania Wadzinski ? date
central Wisconsin

Hi Ellen,
This is what he has been on since May 2019 and has been doing very well weight wise and energy wise for Endurance. (we tried Sentinel LS before that and he plateaued and stopped gaining before getting to a good weight)

The only changes since last summer were adding the MgOx, VitE and SuperSport due to a PSSM P2/P2 test result in the fall, and the move home at end of this March. 
This is the first time I've dealt with cracking this bad on him at any time of year ... Oh, and a new farrier since March2020 too. She is coming out today, so will get pics of him cleaned up after the trim, before his composite shoes go back on.  I feel like his RF got super long, so I've asked to reduce our time between for the next cycle if she can get the other local person to agree.

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Griffin 

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Prophecy (IR) Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy (IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115

Sleek N Wow (non IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=65070 

Hi Griffin,

You've just identified a number of major changes since last year: move, new farrier, diet changes, extended trim cycle. You also mention "cracking this bad", which implies there have always been integrity issues, just that it has now worsened.

Diet imbalances eventually catch up with the horse. Trim issues become magnified when the trim cycle lengthens. While pleasure horses can "get by" with a more haphazard approach, working endurance horses like Sully need a comprehensive approach. This means providing him with a mineral balanced diet to provide him with all the building blocks he needs - in the proper proportions - to support his system. Throwing "kitchen sink" feeds and supplements at him that are aimed at fixing individual problems doesn't address the underlying need to first pour the solid foundation, then tweak things to address any individual issues that he may have.

It also means regular hoof care tailored to his needs, rather than to the convenience of the farrier - I know this last can be a bugger when you are trying to get someone out to your area on a timely schedule - but that's what he needs to perform to his highest potential.

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Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support

Thanks Lavinia, I guess that statement was a little too broad there!
He has a damaged spot on two hooves (medial side of RF & RH from an injury) that usually will chip a little.  But I never have had the toes do this before, and really did not notice any cracking until this cycle when we started having issues with the shoes... First, he was lame on the RF a mile into a trail ride within a week after due to the set of shoe causing toe pressure is what we finally figured out. Reset it and all was good! Then he ripped off the hinds 2 weeks later, so we put the "middle" shoe density that we used previously instead of the softest one (was trying out to see if they helped grip on grass).

1st thing of course is that I will be working to get him on a tighter schedule and discuss with her today.

Per FeedXL his diet is pretty balanced, using generic grass for our area - but I have been debating testing this pasture; sounds like I need to do so and see if something is way out of whack here with the grass (plan to lime this fall).
He did have blood work run this spring (Chem panel, Vit E & Selenium level check) and all came back good.

The farrier thing is a nightmare honestly...we are on #4 since I got him in 2018.  He actually did really well last year in the composite shoes, but the trimming was letting his heels run forward and the direction given by the vet to the farrier was not received well (farrier was at appointment) so we had to find someone else (again). 


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Griffin 

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Prophecy (IR) Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy (IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115

Sleek N Wow (non IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=65070 

I know you're trying hard to get things squared away for Sully. Sometimes, it takes stepping back a bit and seeing things from a less personal perspective to help parse out what may be going on. We all get into the "can't see the forest for the trees" dimension at times.

Totally get the problem with finding an appropriate hoof pro - it's not uncommon, unfortunately - but with a performance horse, that just raises it to a whole new level of frustration.

Feed XL does not truly balance all your major and trace minerals - it works to eliminate frank deficiencies across the board but doesn't make the ratios between minerals optimum. Again, this may be OK for a pleasure horse at maintenance but is not precise enough for an endurance athlete nor the best bang-for-your-buck. Vit E and Se results from a blood panel are valid. Unfortunately, all other minerals won't show up as out-of-the ordinary until they are so far out of whack that the horse is obviously ill as the body maintains blood levels within very tight parameters until it is literally impossible due to severe excesses/deficiencies. Need to do the testing on what is actually going into the horse.

Testing your soil would be the best first step toward getting better, healthier pastures. When the soil is healthier and is maintained that way, the crop (pasture in this case) is more consistent. Testing the pasture itself is a moving target, although mineral levels are less volatile than the ESC+starch are across the seasons. Until you have specific data from your own pastures, using the data for grass in your area is the next best thing.

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Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support

She totally agreed with my 4week request as both horses were quite long.  Most of the cracking was trimmed out, I'll grab some good pics this evening. She ended up coming quite a bit later than originally expected and Sully was 'over it' since she was focused on making sure we didn't have shoe issues like last cycle and were doing trot outs and such as we went, so it took a bit longer than usual.

I will be going to the extension office to get a soil test kit and doing an Equi-Analytic test of the grass itself (601 package) very soon!

--
Griffin 

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Prophecy (IR) Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy (IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115

Sleek N Wow (non IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=65070 

We recommend the #603 as that runs everything using wet chem testing rather than NIR - it's more accurate.

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Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support

Good to know! ok thanks :)
I did post some pics in that google album i grabbed last night.  After I put more field paste in the old nail holes and cracks that are still there.

--
Griffin 

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Prophecy (IR) Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy (IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115

Sleek N Wow (non IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=65070 

Soil testing question
I have the "Routine" (soil pH, P, K, Ca, Mg, Zn, Mn, Cu, Fe, B and estimated CEC) selected - 
also have Organic Matter (determine % in soil) and Soluble Salts (determine if fertilizer salts are too high) available to add on  - if these are worth adding let me know.

Thanks!
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Griffin 

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Prophecy (IR) Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy (IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115

Sleek N Wow (non IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=65070 

Hi Griffin,

I'm asking Nancy to chime in, if she has a moment, as she has had experience with the soil testing and it's results

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Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support

Thanks Lavinia.

Griffiin, I might want to add those two (organic matter and soluble salts) on if I did not know the history of the soil, or had not worked with it for a while.  It could be good baseline info to help your investment in the soil.

Also I'd suggest that you confer with your Cooperative Extension Service for VA at VA tech. https://ext.vt.edu/agriculture/soil-health.html

Ours in NH was a huge help to me when we wanted to address the soil for the best equine hay crop and getting the minerals in better alignment, particularly addressing very high iron and manganese and getting the major minerals in better balance as well.

HTH.
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Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
DDT+E = effective treatment for PPID and EMS/IR equines: https://bit.ly/2J4ZgYT

 

Thanks!
I have talked to her several times in the past when we were looking at using our front area as pasture and ran soil tests on it... We ended up leasing the pasture next door (larger area and less mud issues) which had basically only been bush-hogged 2x a year in the 5 years we saw..
Going to get a baseline on it and let the owners if anything other than the planned lime application this fall should be done :)  I'll add those on as they are cheap enough to do and give us more info.

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Griffin 

Jan 2018, Charlottesville, VA

Prophecy (IR) Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Griffin%20and%20Prophecy

Prophecy (IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=17115

Sleek N Wow (non IR) Photo Album: https://ecir.groups.io/g/Hoof/album?id=65070 

Hey Nancy,

Do you know anyone providing advice for soil optimization for equine hay in Canada?  Or Washington State?

Washington state will have a University Extension Service as each US state does.

https://extension.wsu.edu/

I imagine Canada would have a similar service.  For example

https://www.ualberta.ca/renewable-resources/research/environmental-soil-science/index.html

and

https://afl.uoguelph.ca/soil-testing-services

Tons of links here
https://csss.ca/useful-links/

--
Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003
DDT+E = effective treatment for PPID and EMS/IR equines: https://bit.ly/2J4ZgYT

 

Thanks Nancy!
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Sandra on Vancouver Island, B.C.
December 2018