Glue-on boots with pads
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
Hi Shirley,
No worries and no apologies necessary. Sorry you are experiencing difficulties. Please don't hesitate to just let us know where you are stuck so we can get you and Olaf the help you need. You are currently posting on the ECIR Hoof sub-group, which is for horses that are neither IR nor PPID, plus for all general discussions regarding feet: booting pros and cons, types of boots, general trim discussions, etc. Sherry has already provided answers to your most recent questions regarding booting. Hopefully, that will get you started. Any specific questions you have regarding Olaf would be better asked on the main ECIR group, where all discussions regarding horses with IR/PPID are held. Here's the link to the messages there: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/messages?expanded=1 Did you see the Welcome Message that was posted to you on the main ECIR group? If not, here's the link to it: https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/messages?expanded=1 That message contains a LOT of info that may answer many of your questions. If not, please don't be shy about asking for what you need. Regarding Olaf's trim: the toes are still much too long horizontally. There is also sinking, which is part of the reason he is having difficulties with sole depth. The soles are not as thin as it may appear at first becuse the radiographs are being taken from below the foot and are shooting thru the blocks he is standing on, which are obscuring some of the sole that is present. There are definite wall flares present, as well as some medio-lateral imbalances. All of that is fixable with the correct trim. The "white line disease" that you were seeing was more likely stretched white line due to the extensive laminar wedge that is present, rather than to actual white line disease. It won't be permanently fixed until the trim realigns the hoof capsule so that it tightly conforms to the structures within. Then the damaged material needs to grow out. As Sherry mentioned, his TRH stim test results are questionable as the test was run in Sept 2020, which is during the fall seasonal rise period, when there are no seasonally adjusted lab references ranges available to compare the results against. He is, however, compensated IR based on his insulin and glucose test results. Was the blood work pulled fasting or non-fasting? -- Lavinia Jan 2005, RI Moderator/ECIR Support |
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Sherry Morse
Hi Shirley, First things first. If you want to add your Case History and album link to your signature for this group you'll need to edit your signature for this group the same way you would for the main group, other than going to the membership page for this group: |
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Maxine, I've been using Flexboots on Shaku's fronts now for several weeks, so I should update you on them.
Shaku is between sizes. I could cram his hoof into a 110 but there was no way pads would fit in there with his hoof, and he really needs pads for his very thin soles. Plus the dorsal angle on the 110 boot seemed shallower than on the 120 boot, which meant his hoof didn't go in all the way to the toe of the boot. And because his pasterns are big, II would have had to use the straps and gator from the 120's to close up the boot. The 120s are technically too big but even in them Shaku's toe doesn't quite touch the toe of the boot, but the breakover is back far enough on the boot that I am satisfied (I like the 360 degree breakover on the boots!). Despite being on the big side, I am using the 120s with 12mm black Easy Care pads (the Flexboot pads aren't as thick or conformable) that seems to keep them on snug enough that they don't twist. I also am using an athletic sock over his hoof with foot powder to minimize moisture buildup between the hoof and pad because he has them on for turn-out 22/7. Also, the way the pad conforms to the hoof and the grooves in the bottom of the boot seems to prevent the pad or boot from twisting. Because of Shaku's recent laminitis I haven't been able to really test the boots riding or trotting in tight circles, but they have done well for turnout and he seems comfortable in them. Except one morning I came out after we had a big overnight storm and I found the boots off his hooves, but still dangling around his pasterns from the upper straps. Somehow he must have spooked and managed to literally jump out of his boots (and socks, which were laying side by side as if someone had carefully taken them off)...no idea how it could have happened! No damage to the boots though, and just a confused look on Shaku's face in the morning. I love how easy they are to put on, the straps are much easier on my fingers than his Scoots, and I love that I can change the gator daily when it gets damp from rain. Plus with the padding, the rubber of the boot is well below the coronet and the only thing that touches his skin anywhere is the soft neoprene gator. A little debris does get in the drainage holes, but the pads help to block that. Mostly it's just a little sand, but I have found imprints in the hoof pads showing that the odd small pebble got in. Overall I am very happy with them. I just wish they had a 115 size to try as that might be a better fit, but I think the 120s with pads will be fine for the kind of trail riding I do. I'd love to hear how they work out for you! -- Kirsten Rasmussen Kitimat, BC, Canada |
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Shirley J. <horsecrazy-2@...>
Hello!
Full Disclosure: I feel like a complete neewb (aka novice) in this group. I am not skilled at posting in this group (I don’t remember know how to attach the links in my signature), but I just want to hear more about YOUR experiences with riding in boots: what to look for, what works, what doesn’t, what are the pros/cons, etc? All of it.
Also, if anyone has any suggestions on what I can feed that will mimic pasture, I would love suggestions. My horse is PPID and I honestly don’t know what I should or shouldn’t feed with this dx; the vet hasn’t said anything specific about changing diet or avoiding anything in particular.
Since I can’t post my case history, here’s a quick recap for anyone who’s interested: Olaf is a 10 yr old 16.3 AQHA Appendix. We live in Michigan so weather and MUD is definitely a HUGE factor in our life. After battling white line disease for going on 2 years (debridement, recovery, plateau, worsening, debridement, recovery, plateau, worsening) I knew we had to do something different. This spring we did bloodwork and he is not IR, but his TRH response was positive so we started him on Prascend. We also did radiographs and saw there was some rotation on the left forelimb. We did 12 weeks of clogs and the white line and rotation is currently resolved, the overall quality of hoof is much better, but he still has very thin soles. The first 6 weeks of clogs, he grew a decent amount of sole (possibly because he was on pasture for several hours a day). Now that the days are shorter, grass is dead and dry, and our hoof growth has slowed WAY down with hardly any increase in sole depth over the last 6 weeks. He’s currently in Soft Ride boots 24/7 for comfort and is not currently sound enough to ride but in the off chance it happens, I’d like to know what product to invest in! My vet, farrier & I are all terrified to do anything that will trap moisture/bacteria (casting, glue on shoes, FormaHoof, shoes & pads with nail holes!), so I think boots are our best (only) option. The Soft Ride boots he’s in are too heavy for me to feel comfortable asking him to work in (he runs and bucks in them, but it freaks me out). I also don’t feel like they’re secure enough on his foot to not slip while in work, but maybe I’m just paranoid??? I really have no experience with fitting a boot (I followed all of Soft Ride’s instructions on sizing).
Again, I apologize for not following the posting guidelines – I have tried and failed and put off asking for help until now. Thank you all for being such a patient wealth of knowledge!!!
Shirley Jenks & Olaf (PPID) Hudsonville MI
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Hi Deb
I also don’t check this sub-group as often as I should. I’ve given up glue for the moment, as our weather is so changeable this year. Back to the good ol’ hoof boots and pads for riding—a mix of Gloves, Vipers and Scoots. I’m about to try Flex boots on the fronts, which should be interesting. The first new riding boot design we’ve tried in years. Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID) Canberra, Australia 2010 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy |
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Deb Walker
Maxine...I don't check this subgroup often, but this came up on my radar. After trying Scotty in about a gazillion kinds of glue on shoes, and also Forma-Hoof, it became apparent that NONE of them were going to keep him comfortable or stay the long run. When I went back to the best boot that he likes (Clouds) and transitioned from the Cloud pad to the Soft Ride pads, he was immediately more comfortable and has virtually been in them for 1 1/2 years or so. Working really hard now, with corrective trims, to transition him out of boots. It's a process. I really wanted the glue on ones to work...basically because a lot less work for *me*...but they didn't.
-- Deb and Scotty I/R & PPID Northwest Illinois, May 13, 2019 Case History: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Deb%20and%20Scotty Photos: https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=90619 |
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Update: the front glue-ons came off again within a couple of days, despite extra care drying both dorsal wall and shell, new tube of glue. Back to the drawing board for sure. The hinds are still on at two weeks today and counting. Same prep, same pads, same glue as the fronts. I've posted a photo in her case history album--those suckers are solid, despite gooey mud, gallops up rocky hills, and gaps between boot and wall at the heel quarters. Sometimes the universe just likes to tease us, I'm convinced. (I've probably jinxed myself now and they'll be gone when I go to check this afternoon, haha.)
-- Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID) Canberra, Australia 2010 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy |
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Thanks all, appreciate the feedback. The learning curve never flattens, it seems!
Given the amount of glue left on the hoof wall, I'm pretty confident our prep was okay, but I'll be extra careful next time. -- Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID) Canberra, Australia 2010 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy |
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Lavinia Fiscaletti
As Cass and Kirsten mentioned, making sure the hoof is clean a d dry are extremely important.
Whenever you use a pad, it is likely the glued or casted shoe/boot is likely to come off sooner as the pad causes more compression and expansion with each stride. This stresses the glue bond more, so it ends up releasing sooner than without the pad. -- Lavinia Moderator/ECIR Support |
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P.S. No pads, only hoof packing in the collateral groves.
-- Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012 ECIR Group Moderator Cayuse Case History Cayuse Photos Diamond Case History Diamond Photos |
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Hi, Maxine. Diamond has been in glue-on shoes for close to two years. I don't do anything but watch. She's very hard on glue on shoes, my trimmer tells me, wearing them more in 4 weeks than any of the performance horses in his practice. She wears a Polyflex Horse Shoe without pads. Her frogs look amazing. Check out the application process at the link.
Preparing the hoof is painstaking and I do wonder if it weakens the hoof wall, which in Diamond's case, isn't very robust. Anyway, the hoof walls are wire brushed and then dressed with a wire drum brush attachment on a power drill. The wire drum brush is 4-6 inches long and the hoof wall is brushed about half way up the hoof wall. That clean hoof wall is dried very thoroughly using light passes a hand-held butane torch. The hoof must be completely clean and very dry for the glue to adhere. The hoof is then covered in a hoof bootie like this Easyboot Zip while the other hoof is prepared. Before the custom formed shoe is applied, the collateral grooves are packed with packing mixed with copper sulfate. The glue-on process itself as I remember it: the bead of glue is placed on the shoe, the shoe is set and then the hoof must be held up for 3-4 minutes while the glue sets. This is the most frustrating to the horse. While Diamond can hold her hoof up for several minutes without difficulty, having the trimmer hold it up without doing anything is frustrating. As I said, I don't do this. My trimmer does and has for almost two years, so I've watched it dozens of times. A shoe has come off twice, and it's a mess when that happens. Nippers are used to remove the glue on, an athletic event beyond my capabilities. He uses the same adhesive every time. I can ask what it is, if it matters. It's temperature sensitive, so in the winter it takes longer to set. -- Cass, Sonoma Co., CA 2012 ECIR Group Moderator Cayuse Case History Cayuse Photos Diamond Case History Diamond Photos |
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Too bad, Maxine, maybe trying the thinner pad would help... I suspect with pads the length the boots stay on will be shorter than without pads because with every step and compression of the pads, no matter how little, that glue bond is being stretched and worn out.
I have heard that the hoof, the boot, and the glue all need to be the same temperature for the best bond. Not sure if you knew that but it's the only other advice I can offer. -- Kirsten Rasmussen Kitimat, BC, Canada |
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I'm wondering if anybody has had experience with glueing on boot shells with pads. We glued four Glove shells on Indy a week ago. Reason--she lands better in boots and pads but tends to rub if left in them 23/7; and her mum has 'boot fatigue' (arthritic hands, bad back...).
We cut out the back of the shell, heat-fitted, bevelled toes and heels. Used Adhere--acrylic glue is prohibitively expensive here, and the old-style Vettec cartridges are on sale to make way for their new stock. In the front boots we used the Happy Hoof yellow pads, as I know she likes these in her usual strap-on boots. In the hind boots we used a 5mm EVA foam from a local foam and rubber outlet, as she doesn't usually use pads in her back boots (due to twisting) and I wanted a thinner pad in the backs. All four feet were prepped the same, followed the same process. A week later, both fronts came off, one on a ride and the other when she rolled after the ride. The hinds, although there are clear gaps between hoof wall and boot at the heel quarters, are astoundingly solid. I am really surprised that she lost the fronts first, as she's never lost a strap-on boot on her front feet, but many many times we have lost hinds, mostly the left hind that twists. There was glue both on the hoof walls and on the boot walls. It's obviously a glue failure, but not due to dirt on the hoof or boot, or due to the glue itself (as the hind boots are still on and we used the same cartridge). [As an aside, the soles and frogs looked dry and happy, and there was still Artimud in the CGs.] The only variable seems to be the pads. My theory is that the Happy Hoof pads, because they are a sturdy foam that gradually flattens out while supporting the hoof, have contributed to the glue bond failure by pulling the boot from the wall as they packed down over the week. The EVA foam used on the hind boots is not only a thinner pad to start with, but it flattens more quickly, probably within minutes. Does this make sense? My next try will be to clean up the shells (aarghhh) and try them again with a thinner pad--either the same as the hinds, or a red Easycare pad (although ordering anything online means a wait of 3-4 weeks for the parcel to arrive). Any other suggestions? DIM is prohibitively expensive here too, I can't really afford it. She moved well in the glue-ons, I do think she liked them. I'd prefer to be able to keep them on for 3-4 weeks though... -- Maxine and Indy (PPID) and Dangles (PPID) Canberra, Australia 2010 https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Maxine%20and%20Indy |
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