Underslung heels & hoof photos was One of my barefoot experiences


John Stewart
 

Hi Nancy,
 
These crushed heels occur in feet when the hoof wall and the bars are relatively weak.
If the bars are taken out too much, there is even less support for the heel so it would collapse more. 
 
I don't think a poor digital cushion will affect the collapsing, but the strength of the lateral cartilages might.
 
Shoes are not good for these collapsing heels, but the Thoroughbreds over here are almost all shod.  Otherwise, I am sure you are right about the footing.
 
I have put up 4 more photos.
1. Collapsing heels with curved bars.  2. Then the same foot with the bar trimmed to try to give support. 
You will see that the bar curves further forward on the medial side, with the heel curving in more, and there is a flare opposite the collapse.  The lateral bar folds very near the heel and there is less heel collapse.
3. A Clydesdale foot that is collapsing the same way.  Not strong enough for the weight of the horse.
4. The foot of a thoroughbred in the UK that is raced barefoot.  It is said that it had never beaten any horse when shod but, when it went barefoot, managed to win!
 
Cheers
 
John

----- Original Message -----
To: ECHoof
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 9:26 PM
Subject: Re: Underslung heels & hoof photos was Re: [ECHoof] One of my barefoot experiences

Hi John -

Can I see if I have this right, please?  :-)

The heels become underslung b/c the other structures – most notably the bars - are either weakened or not there?  Allowing them to roll over (curve or collapse) would weaken them.  What other way might this happen?  And if a they were being were removed or over trimmed regularly, it sounds like this might also contribute to underslung heels.  I’m guessing a poor digital cushion and lateral cartilage would as well?

If you had to reduce the bar to a level of support for the heels, presumably the footing would be really important for recovery.  IOW, if the bars had to be taken well below the heel, then ideally a footing that would get up in there and support the lowered bars is what you would want?

Am I close?

Thanks very much

Nancy C and Beau and Gabe in NH


>The heel has to be taken down to a level that isn't bent underneath.  If the
>bar is curved and collapsed, I would reduce it until it was straight enough
>to actually give some support to the heel.  The breakover at the toe has to
>be brought back.  It is the flare of the foot that pulls the sole flat, so
>the flare must be reduced.


Nancy Collins <threecatfarm@...>
 

Hi John -

Can I see if I have this right, please?  :-)

The heels become underslung b/c the other structures – most notably the bars - are either weakened or not there?  Allowing them to roll over (curve or collapse) would weaken them.  What other way might this happen?  And if a they were being were removed or over trimmed regularly, it sounds like this might also contribute to underslung heels.  I’m guessing a poor digital cushion and lateral cartilage would as well?

If you had to reduce the bar to a level of support for the heels, presumably the footing would be really important for recovery.  IOW, if the bars had to be taken well below the heel, then ideally a footing that would get up in there and support the lowered bars is what you would want?

Am I close?

Thanks very much

Nancy C and Beau and Gabe in NH


>The heel has to be taken down to a level that isn't bent underneath.  If the
>bar is curved and collapsed, I would reduce it until it was straight enough
>to actually give some support to the heel.  The breakover at the toe has to
>be brought back.  It is the flare of the foot that pulls the sole flat, so
>the flare must be reduced.


John Stewart
 

Claire,

Often, not very easily.

Very basic principals:
It is certainly pointless applying a shoe onto horn that is folding under. The only way that it can grow is horizontally.
The heel has to be taken down to a level that isn't bent underneath. If the bar is curved and collapsed, I would reduce it until it was straight enough to actually give some support to the heel. The breakover at the toe has to be brought back. It is the flare of the foot that pulls the sole flat, so the flare must be reduced.

There is a problem, nowadays, about shoeing these flat feet with flares because most shoes are machine made (certainly in the UK) and the nail holes are too upright so that the nails don't pass a sufficient distance up the wall. It means that they are often shod out to the flare rather than trying to shoe to hold the shape. (I realise that this won't matter to all you barefooters!)

Sounds simple doesn't it!

John


Claire C. Cox-Wilson <shotgun.ranch@...>
 

AH !!! Wow!!! I see it well.
Thank you Dr. John for posting those.
Now....how would you go about getting those to grow correctly??
Obviously you need to back up the toe considerably but this poor horse
has basically no heel to stand on. How would you offer support and
promote straight growth???
Claire from AZ


--- In ECHoof@..., "John Stewart" <john_the_vet@...> wrote:

Claire,

I have added some photos to my examples file.
Crushed heels are when the heels have insufficient strength, and
support
from the bars, and collapse under. A fold develops at the heel
quarter, and
the collapse is always worsened with a shoe on.
With the heel collapse, the bars curve and the combined pressure
from the
collapsed heel and bar will not uncommonly result in a "corn".


John Stewart
 

Claire,

I have added some photos to my examples file.
Crushed heels are when the heels have insufficient strength, and support from the bars, and collapse under. A fold develops at the heel quarter, and the collapse is always worsened with a shoe on.
With the heel collapse, the bars curve and the combined pressure from the collapsed heel and bar will not uncommonly result in a "corn".

John

----- Original Message -----
From: "Claire C. Cox-Wilson" <shotgun.ranch@...>
To: <ECHoof@...>
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2007 2:07 PM
Subject: Underslung heels & hoof photos was Re: [ECHoof] One of my barefoot experiences


--- In ECHoof@..., Abby Bloxsom <dearab@...> wrote:

Eclectk1@... wrote:

I'd LOVE to have a
really good photo of crushed heels to use as an example also.
I just put up two photos of crushed heels in an album by the same name.

-Abby


--
**************************
Abby Bloxsom
www.advantedgeconsulting.com
At the risk of sounding like an ignoramus... but exactly what is the
difference between underslung and crushed heels??? Is it the degree
of the angle???
I would have just called these very underslung......
Claire from AZ





Yahoo! Groups Links




Claire C. Cox-Wilson <shotgun.ranch@...>
 

--- In ECHoof@..., Abby Bloxsom <dearab@...> wrote:

Eclectk1@... wrote:

I'd LOVE to have a
really good photo of crushed heels to use as an example also.
I just put up two photos of crushed heels in an album by the same name.

-Abby


--
**************************
Abby Bloxsom
www.advantedgeconsulting.com
At the risk of sounding like an ignoramus... but exactly what is the
difference between underslung and crushed heels??? Is it the degree
of the angle???
I would have just called these very underslung......
Claire from AZ


Abby Nemec
 

Eclectk1@... wrote:

I'd LOVE to have a
really good photo of crushed heels to use as an example also.
I just put up two photos of crushed heels in an album by the same name.

-Abby


--
**************************
Abby Bloxsom
www.advantedgeconsulting.com


Eclectk1@...
 

John, that's PAINFUL just looking at that poor horse's foot!!!  EXCELLENT example of an underslung heel, one that I think will be quite useful to many in part because it is so extreme that those who aren't sure what "underslung" even refers to will likely be able to catch on with that one!!  Good heavens, talk about a case of fitting the foot to the shoe rather than the shoe to the foot, and/or not giving the horse even a scrap of heel support!!!  Gee whiz!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
 
By the way, to whatever extent you can or are willing to, I'd LOVE to have photos of all sorts of different hoof problems to be able to have here as examples for folks to use to learn from.  For example, you already got us the classic underslung heel photo,.  I'd LOVE to have a really good photo of crushed heels to use as an example also.  Tamera's are the classic "long toe low heel" or where entire foot capsule & hoof around it was shifted too far forward, even tho not so noticable to many I'd bet just because when she's really "right" I suspect she'll look more upright than some may be used to seeing.... and I'd like to add one with this same problem, only with the normal healthy configuration tending to be a low pastern, right along with one that's right in the middle that way...  So it'd be nice to have good photo examples of any and all diferent types of hoof or trimming or shoeing problems, but also as many series as we can get where problems were corrected over time....
 
Anyhow, if any of you get ones you think would be useful this way, please send them directly to me at Eclectk1 "at" aol "dot" com either in liu of or in addition to posting them here in the photos section.
 
Regardless, John, thanks for posting that photo!!
 
Robin
(list owner)




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