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downloaded pictures


Ruth Davidson
 

I have downloaded photos of my mare Fifi's left front foot. We are
still healing from her one and only laminitis attack in December 2005.
She is a 23 year old Arabian/Welsh pony cross. She is Insulin
Resistant. She is lame after trimming, and walking on the sole of her
foot as the toe of her left front does not seem to be growing. I am
arranging for more xrays (I do not have copies of the original ones
done December '05). They will show us how much the coffin bone has
sunk, and my farrier can determine what to do next. Any comments would
really be appreciated. This has been a slow & frustrating healing
process for my poor little mare. I have gleaned lots of information
from this and the Cushings/IR site by reading other cases.

Moderator: I mistakenly downloaded the photos twice, sorry, I tried to
delete the second album, but it is still there empty.

Thank you, ruth


Claire Vale <clairevale@...>
 

Hi Ruth,

Unfortunately, it looks like Fifi may have been having ongoing subtle
laminitis attacks since her initial one. What I can see of the small
rings on her hooves suggests that they are further apart at the heels
than at the toe, and the white line doesn't look 'tight' and narrow.
These would tend to indicate ongoing laminitic episodes, even if she
hasn't exhibited lameness. Unfortunately, the subtle signs are often
missed unless you're looking very closely for them (I've several times
had cases the vets and other 'experts' have missed).

I suspect that her toe wall is indeed growing a little bit slower than
the heel wall, however, the way she is being trimmed is adding to this
appearance. Because your farrier / trimmer is keeping the toe flare
back by dubbing back the toe wall, it is thinned there somewhat. This,
added to the fact that the toe wall is growing more 'forward' than
'down', makes the toe growth look slower than it probably is.

Horses are 'designed' to carry part of their weight on their soles.
Sometimes, this isn't especially comfortable for them though. If the
sole is thin, there is inflammation of the solar corium, the coffin bone
angle isn't great and the tip is pressing down on the toe, or the horse
just plain isn't used to the pressure, it may be quite discomforting to
him. On the other hand (hoof? <G>), if the sole is a reasonable
thickness and there isn't any inflammation or other pathology, and the
horse has had time to adjust, most horses are perfectly happy to have a
lot of weight (or even all their weight) directly on the soles, provided
the overall hoof balance and proportions are right.

Have you tried booting and padding her, to see if that helps her become
more comfortable? The last photos looks like she has quite an upright
pastern compared to the toe wall angle - is this the case? If so, then
her lameness may be more related to heel soreness than toe pain. What
sort of trim is she getting, and how often? When she is lame, how does
she walk - do her feet land toe first, flat, or heel first? If you
can't see at a slow walk, watch her fetlocks - do they flow smoothly
through the landing phase, or do they drop down with a 'ka-chunk' just
as she places weight on her feet? 'Ka-chunk' movement indicates a toe
first landing, and that it is the heels that are more sore.

X-rays are an excellent idea, at they'll show you exactly what you're
dealing with. Make sure the vet places a conformable marker (e.g. key
chain, or solder wire) down the toe wall from the hairline to the
ground, and that they also place a tack in the true tip of the frog.
These two markers are key in being able to read the x-rays easily for
rotation and distal descent, and having external landmarks to trim by.
Packing the bottom of the foot with something like plasticine is also a
good idea (this mimics standing on softer supportive ground, and gives a
better indication of the hoof-pastern axis). If you speak to the vet who
took the original x-rays, you may be able to get photographs of them,
and it's worth doing for your own records.

I've worked with a number of laminitic horses, and in each case where
there hasn't been a fairly rapid recovery (back to their original
non-laminitic level of soundness in 6 to 9 months), the original cause
hadn't been identified, wasn't being fully managed, or wasn't able to be
managed totally. Even the ones with a small degree of ongoing founders
(due to un-medicated Cushing's) are pretty comfortable most of the time,
except when they have an actual laminitic flare-up.

Claire Vale
New Zealand
Barefoot trimmer :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: ECHoof@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ECHoof@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Ruth Davidson
Sent: Monday, 25 June 2007 1:29 p.m.
To: ECHoof@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ECHoof] downloaded pictures

I have downloaded photos of my mare Fifi's left front foot. We are
still healing from her one and only laminitis attack in December 2005.
She is a 23 year old Arabian/Welsh pony cross. She is Insulin
Resistant. She is lame after trimming, and walking on the sole of her
foot as the toe of her left front does not seem to be growing. I am
arranging for more xrays (I do not have copies of the original ones
done December '05). They will show us how much the coffin bone has
sunk, and my farrier can determine what to do next. Any comments would
really be appreciated. This has been a slow & frustrating healing
process for my poor little mare. I have gleaned lots of information
from this and the Cushings/IR site by reading other cases.

Thank you, ruth


Ruth Davidson
 

Hi Claire:

Thank you so much for your comments. I think you are right on the
money, and Fifi IS still having mild laminitis. That would explain A
LOT of what is happening.

As far as how she lands her feet, I THINK perhaps the "ka-chunk" may
describe it. It never dawned on me that it wasn't her toe causing the
pain as that is where it looks odd to me.

I have gone back to soaking her hay. She is on a scrubby 1 1/2 acres
with a companion horse. It is not "pasture" per say as it is dry and
native weeds. Also, it is difficult to confine her in her stall or
run as she is VERY food orientated, and gets very depressed if
not "out". No doubt why she is IR! She gets the cinnamon,
magnesium, J herb, etc. As well I have put her back on her Recovery
EQ. She does much better on it, but I stopped it when she got sick.

You have given MUCH to think about. My farrier is away for a couple
of weeks, so I am not able to discuss your reply with him until early
July when he is due back for Fifi's next trim. He comes every 5 to 6
weeks. I am trying to arrange the xrays. And I will get the old ones
from my vet and photograph them (I wondered how they get posted
online). I will also do those smart recommends you give on the next
set of xrays to get the most informative results. Can you please
watch for my posting xrays and let me know what you see?

Thank you so much Claire, ruth & fifi


--- In ECHoof@yahoogroups.com, "Claire Vale" <clairevale@...> wrote:

Hi Ruth,

Unfortunately, it looks like Fifi may have been having ongoing
subtle
laminitis attacks since her initial one.

Claire Vale
New Zealand
Barefoot trimmer :-)



Claire Vale <clairevale@...>
 

Hi Ruth,

Sometimes it is easy to get side tracked by the known issues, and not
realise that there might be something else there as well adding to the
overall problems.

I was given a VERY nice 4yo TB x Morgan mare last week, because she had
been diagnosed as laminitic (very overweight at the beginning of
summer). The vet had recommended 2 months box rest, and the owner just
didn't have the resources to do that. Looking at her feet, yes, the
laminitic episodes are there for the world to see (not bad though),
howwever, that doesn't appear to be the cause of her occasional lameness
bouts. That seems to be more related to rear-of-the-hoof weakness, and
I'm glad to say that pulling the shoes off and rebalancing her feet has
made her a very happy girl <G>. With a bit of diet management and the
proper hoof care from now on, she should be a-okay and a wonderful mare
to have.

Fingers crossed that you can get Fifi's laminitis under control, and
that a little bit of tweaking to her trimming will have her being a
happy camper again too.

Claire Vale
New Zealand

-----Original Message-----
From: ECHoof@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ECHoof@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Ruth Davidson
Sent: Tuesday, 26 June 2007 5:01 p.m.
To: ECHoof@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ECHoof] Re: downloaded pictures

Hi Claire:

Thank you so much for your comments. I think you are right on the
money, and Fifi IS still having mild laminitis. That would explain A
LOT of what is happening.

As far as how she lands her feet, I THINK perhaps the "ka-chunk" may
describe it. It never dawned on me that it wasn't her toe causing the
pain as that is where it looks odd to me.

I have gone back to soaking her hay. She is on a scrubby 1 1/2 acres
with a companion horse. It is not "pasture" per say as it is dry and
native weeds. Also, it is difficult to confine her in her stall or
run as she is VERY food orientated, and gets very depressed if
not "out". No doubt why she is IR! She gets the cinnamon,
magnesium, J herb, etc. As well I have put her back on her Recovery
EQ. She does much better on it, but I stopped it when she got sick.

You have given MUCH to think about. My farrier is away for a couple
of weeks, so I am not able to discuss your reply with him until early
July when he is due back for Fifi's next trim. He comes every 5 to 6
weeks. I am trying to arrange the xrays. And I will get the old ones
from my vet and photograph them (I wondered how they get posted
online). I will also do those smart recommends you give on the next
set of xrays to get the most informative results. Can you please
watch for my posting xrays and let me know what you see?

Thank you so much Claire, ruth & fifi


--- In ECHoof@yahoogroups.com, "Claire Vale" <clairevale@...> wrote:

Hi Ruth,

Unfortunately, it looks like Fifi may have been having ongoing
subtle
laminitis attacks since her initial one.

Claire Vale
New Zealand
Barefoot trimmer :-)






Yahoo! Groups Links


Ruth Davidson
 

Hi Claire:

Yes, it is easy to not see the real issue. That's where this group
is so valuable, exchanging ideas and getting expert advice.

I picked up Fifi's original xrays from my vet and tried to take
digital photos of them. I just posted one as a test, but (oops) it's
sideways! Before I replace it, is it otherwise clear enough to make
out whether sinking/rotation is happening? Can you tell?

Great story about the TB/Morgan mare. I hope to have a success story
too with Fifi . . . one day . . . sigh

Ruth & Fifi

--- In ECHoof@yahoogroups.com, "Claire Vale" <clairevale@...> wrote:

Hi Ruth,

Sometimes it is easy to get side tracked by the known issues, and
not
realise that there might be something else there as well adding to
the
overall problems.


Claire Vale
New Zealand


Claire Vale <clairevale@...>
 

Hi Ruth,

You can get the general idea from the photo, however it is a bit fuzzy -
I'm not sure if that is a focus issue with your camera or the x-rays
themselves.

Great that you've got the old ones, since they make a good baseline to
compare from.

Claire Vale
New Zealand

-----Original Message-----
From: ECHoof@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ECHoof@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Ruth Davidson
Sent: Wednesday, 27 June 2007 1:08 p.m.
To: ECHoof@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [ECHoof] Re: downloaded pictures

Hi Claire:

Yes, it is easy to not see the real issue. That's where this group
is so valuable, exchanging ideas and getting expert advice.

I picked up Fifi's original xrays from my vet and tried to take
digital photos of them. I just posted one as a test, but (oops) it's
sideways! Before I replace it, is it otherwise clear enough to make
out whether sinking/rotation is happening? Can you tell?

Great story about the TB/Morgan mare. I hope to have a success story
too with Fifi . . . one day . . . sigh

Ruth & Fifi

--- In ECHoof@yahoogroups.com, "Claire Vale" <clairevale@...> wrote:

Hi Ruth,

Sometimes it is easy to get side tracked by the known issues, and
not
realise that there might be something else there as well adding to
the
overall problems.


Claire Vale
New Zealand




Yahoo! Groups Links