Hand walking and lameness


tiggerinak
 

Okay, I'm not sure if this should go here or on the EC group, but
here goes...

Sonny, our 18 year old Shetland, has Cushings. He's on brome hay &
pergolide. He is trimmed every two weeks. Things have been going okay
for a while. Not great, but he's not totally out of the game either.
He is stalled almost all of the time since his grazing muzzle was
recently broken, meaning he can't be out with the other horses, so we
have recently taken to handwalking him. I walk him on the roads
around our house in the late evenings when there is next to no
traffic and it's quiet. About three days ago, we changed hay. Still
brome but from a different grower. Due to an over-eager 7 year old,
my last bit of his old hay went to waste, so I didn't get to mix hay
for him. He's been gassy and miserable, and went down. I have had
to "encourage" him to get up and we walked him around the yard last
night instead of our normal street cruising. I called the vet two
nights ago after the first full day of him not getting up on his own
and the vet said Sonny could be suffering from low grade colic. So
we have made sure to walk him more frequently the last two days.

Okay, all of that for this: could walking on the street have caused
him to go laminitic, in turn making him not want to get up and move
around? After about 10 minutes of walking, he starts getting a hitch
in his left front, and the frog in that hoof seems to be having some
issues.

As I write this, I start having SO many more questions about possible
things. Man... this gets so overwhelming at times.

If folks can ask questions based on what I've said so far, maybe that
will help me direct my thoughts a bit more and give better
information. Sorry for being so scatterbrained right now. There are
a lot of things going on in our household right now and Sonny getting
sick yet again is just adding to the complexities.

Thanks for any help anyone is willing to offer.

Jenn & Sonny


Nancy Collins <threecatfarm@...>
 

Jenn -

Sorry life is so complicated right now!  Take a breath.  I know it can be overwhelming.

Just so you know...it’s okay to talk about ANYTHING affecting one of our Cushings or IR horses or ponies on the EC list.  If you want me to I can copy and paste this message over there to get broader input.  But you may want to add more info first. Just send up a flare and I will copy things over there for you.

Assuming your trim is okay (and a two week schedule is great!), walks on the road alone would IMO not bring on what you describe. It also sounds like you are you are not running him up and down in a manner he’s not tolerated recently.  It sure seems to me to be something else.

Does he have digital pulses?  Could it be thrush in his LF? If the frog is not well developed, thrush can really be a problem and can cause enough pain to make him off.  Is he landing heel to toe or toe first?  Can’t tell from your Case History if he’s IR or not.  Has the new hay been tested for ESC and starch? Has anything else in his routine or diet changed? He could be entering the the seasonal rise where his Cushings is more pronounced.  

All I can think of right now... I know things are complicated for you. Keep breathing.  If you can add more info, going to the main list is the best bet.

Nancy C and Beau and Gabe in NH


On 7/23/07 9:06 PM, "tiggerinak" wrote:


 
 

Okay, I'm not sure if this should go here or on the EC group, but
here goes...

Sonny, our 18 year old Shetland, has Cushings. He's on brome hay &
pergolide. He is trimmed every two weeks. Things have been going okay
for a while. Not great, but he's not totally out of the game either.
He is stalled almost all of the time since his grazing muzzle was
recently broken, meaning he can't be out with the other horses, so we
have recently taken to handwalking him. I walk him on the roads
around our house in the late evenings when there is next to no
traffic and it's quiet. About three days ago, we changed hay. Still
brome but from a different grower. Due to an over-eager 7 year old,
my last bit of his old hay went to waste, so I didn't get to mix hay
for him. He's been gassy and miserable, and went down. I have had
to "encourage" him to get up and we walked him around the yard last
night instead of our normal street cruising.  I called the vet two
nights ago after the first full day of him not getting up on his own
and the vet said Sonny could be suffering from low grade colic.  So
we have made sure to walk him more frequently the last two days.

Okay, all of that for this: could walking on the street have caused
him to go laminitic, in turn making him not want to get up and move
around?  After about 10 minutes of walking, he starts getting a hitch
in his left front, and the frog in that hoof seems to be having some
issues.

As I write this, I start having SO many more questions about possible
things.  Man... this gets so overwhelming at times.

If folks can ask questions based on what I've said so far, maybe that
will help me direct my thoughts a bit more and give better
information.  Sorry for being so scatterbrained right now.  There are
a lot of things going on in our household right now and Sonny getting
sick yet again is just adding to the complexities.

Thanks for any help anyone is willing to offer.

Jenn & Sonny

 


silkie12002 <silkie@...>
 

We've had pretty much the same problem today. Our 16 yr. old Gelding Mo. Fox Trotter
with Cushings wanted to go down after 1 1/2 days on a different hay. He's a pretty big
boy--16'2. My husband walked and walked him til we could get ahold of a vet (very
difficult where we live so we called a vet 180 miles away!) The vet asked us all the
pertinent questions--I had Heart rate, temp. and gut sounds for him. I told the vet that we
had switched him from soaked Brome to Bermuda thinking we would not have to soak the
Bermuda. The Bermuda was very, very fine--short and not leafy at all, where as the Brome
is leafy and long and substantial. The horse liked both-but-it seems the fine Bermuda
tried to impact! The vet had me give him 12 cc's of banamine and said to walk him for 30
more minutes then give him a bran mash (hopefully to loosen things and help it pass thru)
and it worked. I was told we should have soaked the bermuda too and worked it in
gradually. Well, heck, if we have to soak the Bermuda, we'll just stick with the Brome, but it
was a lesson learned and the horse is delighted. We have 4 horses and we've been keeping
all of them up because of the thick, heavy grass this year, but they are not stalled--they
have paddocks. 3 of them have tried to founder in the past-a bummer. The 16 yr. old
gelding has just gotten tender footed a couple of times but we're having his feet x-rayed
to make sure all is well. He's trimmed about every 3-4 weeks. He's on Pergolide and
responded well. Hope you good luck with your Shetland.

Anita

--- In ECHoof@..., "tiggerinak" <tiggerinak@...> wrote:

Okay, I'm not sure if this should go here or on the EC group, but
here goes...

Sonny, our 18 year old Shetland, has Cushings. He's on brome hay &
pergolide. He is trimmed every two weeks. Things have been going okay
for a while. Not great, but he's not totally out of the game either.
He is stalled almost all of the time since his grazing muzzle was
recently broken, meaning he can't be out with the other horses, so we
have recently taken to handwalking him. I walk him on the roads
around our house in the late evenings when there is next to no
traffic and it's quiet. About three days ago, we changed hay. Still
brome but from a different grower. Due to an over-eager 7 year old,
my last bit of his old hay went to waste, so I didn't get to mix hay
for him. He's been gassy and miserable, and went down. I have had
to "encourage" him to get up and we walked him around the yard last
night instead of our normal street cruising. I called the vet two
nights ago after the first full day of him not getting up on his own
and the vet said Sonny could be suffering from low grade colic. So
we have made sure to walk him more frequently the last two days.

Okay, all of that for this: could walking on the street have caused
him to go laminitic, in turn making him not want to get up and move
around? After about 10 minutes of walking, he starts getting a hitch
in his left front, and the frog in that hoof seems to be having some
issues.

As I write this, I start having SO many more questions about possible
things. Man... this gets so overwhelming at times.

If folks can ask questions based on what I've said so far, maybe that
will help me direct my thoughts a bit more and give better
information. Sorry for being so scatterbrained right now. There are
a lot of things going on in our household right now and Sonny getting
sick yet again is just adding to the complexities.

Thanks for any help anyone is willing to offer.

Jenn & Sonny


J Amick
 

I have a video tape of Linda Tellington-Jones called   "hands on therapy"   that addresses gas colic and regular colic.    I have used these methods many times,  and they have saved me a vet coming to the stable.    Please understand something.....    This is NOT   to overlook when a medical situation has gone wrong,  and you need a vet.    These procedures help to ease  the pain until he/she gets there on site.      I always evaluate with a stethascope for gut sounds,  check the breathing rate,  and take the temp,  ck for digital pulses.   Giving all of this info to the vet on the call. 

Now  here is how to engage endorphins to take away the pain of the colic.    

First off there are many places on the horse that can be used,  and you should use all of them.

Each foot has 3 spots directly above the coronary band.   One in the middle,  and about an inch on each side.    You can feel them as they are an indentation in the muscle.     Press in and out like you are ringing a door bell.    Up to 50-60 times if need be.   Use all 3 spots.     Get another person to work on another foot.    All 4 feet can be done at the same time....  This gives a tremendous rush of
the endorphins.   If no one is there to help,   do all 4 feet yourself.

Second.    On the muzzle,  between the nostrils and about an inch down,  do the same thing.  "Ring the door bell"....    At first  they object,  but be persistant,  and watch it work.  

Third,   put on latex gloves and lift the tail up with both hands and rotate the tail in both direction GENTLY.       Now take your index finger and just above the anus,  "ring the door bell"   again...  
Be on the alert for gas release and possibly a "dumper"....    

What you are doing is releasing endorphins into the blood stream that causes relaxation.  Sort of like a banamine shot.      These are natural  enzymes that work instantly.     You will see licking and chewing,  deep sigh breathing,   head lowering,   and just in a release in general of muscle tightness.   

Now to get the gut moving,  I give 120 cc's  of mineral oil via 60 cc (no needles) syringe and then start with a pressing in and upward motion of the belly area just in front of  back leg.    This takes a tremendous amt of  strength,  and I highly advise you to get the video and watch this procedure.   I do this on both sides of the horse.    It  is painful to the horse,  hense learn it PRIOR   to needing to use this procedure.    Practice these  procedures on your horse when it is well....    No surprises then. 

Lastly, keep walking the horse  and/or   load the horse on to a trailer...     They always poop!   

I have pulled many a horse out of a crisis situation and got gas relief,   and got  the gut moving again.   
As a matter of fact,  vaccinations were given last  Friday AM,   and I had  a horse  go into a colic
situation that night.  New horse I bought.    Didn't  know her well.      Did all that I have shared with you and she gave me a huge burp  of gas,  and a  dumper as well.      It was 10 PM,  and I called the vet in the early AM   just to make certain of  any other problems related to the shots.     I was told that she was feverish,  and to give her some  antibiotics.         It was an allergic response to the carrier that is used  for the vaccines themselves.     Called a secondary infection....   Horse is fine now.

I would like to stress that one needs to be very well aware of all the "red flags"  in owning a horse and when   YOU  simply are not confident to tackle the medical case.   Call  the vet,   and then start your
procedures until the vet gets there.           Having been around horses for many years and knowing my own inside and out,  I can determine when or if to call the vet.      For a newbie,  or "novice"   horse owner,   make the call  and then do these suggestions.   

I realize these suggestions do NOT  address the lameness issue,  but they will help a colic
situation.    Hope this helps some.

BTW,   I'd soak that new hay until you can get it analyzed for sugar etc.
Judy-PA   

tiggerinak wrote:


  About three days ago, we changed hay. Still
brome but from a different grower. Due to an over-eager 7 year old,
my last bit of his old hay went to waste, so I didn't get to mix hay
for him. He's been gassy and miserable, and went down.





tiggerinak
 

Thanks to all of you for your suggestions and your thoughts. I
managed to get a couple of bales of hay from my neighbor that are
brown and stick-like, as opposed to greener and probably sweeter
stuff that I bought. I have been mixing them and he seems to be
feeling better. I couldn't get a hold of any banimine but I had some
bute, which the vet said would be the secondary recommendation
for "on-hand" meds. We also put him on blueboard. This morning when
I went down to feed, I tossed his mixed hay into his stall and he
actually got up on his own, super slow but on his own nonetheless, to
eat. Another change was that he wasn't blowing gas once he stood up
as opposed to the last few days when he has looked a little bloated
and was blowing more air than a summer breeze, his tail
remaining "up" between gusts. He hasn't pooped or peed as much as I
think he should have by now, but he's still doing both. The vet had
suggested the possibility of feeding him a bran mash, but with him
being Cushings I'm not sure what exactly to put in it. Anyone have a
recipe?

To answer questions:

Does he have digital pulses? <i>Yes, a slow throbbing one in one of
his front, (I don't recall which one right this moment,) and a not-as-
pronounced one in the other. I thought I felt one in the rear hooves
also but once he stood up and was on his feet for a few minutes, it
seemed to have disappeared.</i>

Could it be thrush in his LF? If the frog is not well developed,
thrush can really be a problem and can cause enough pain to make him
off. <I>It could be. But I didn't see any black tar and the smell
is no worse than usual poo/pee trapped in pine shavings and crammed
in a crevice. *smile* We have been cleaning his hooves every day,
sometimes twice a day just to get the packed stuff out and allow his
hooves some air time to dry out. My trimmer came by the morning
after I originally posted and she said that the frog may just be
sloughing off the bad parts. (That's the simple way of saying what
she said.)</i>

Is he landing heel to toe or toe first? <i>He's been walking heel-toe
for a while now. I have been watching closely to make sure that
doesn't change and so far it hasn't.</i>

Can't tell from your Case History if he's IR or not. <i>I'm not sure
that we've ever tested him to find out if he is or not. We've tested
his Cushings but not for IR.</i>

Has the new hay been tested for ESC and starch? <i>Not yet. I have
to borrow a hay corer from the local University Ag. School.</i>

Has anything else in his routine or diet changed? He could be
entering the the seasonal rise where his Cushings is more pronounced.
<i>Not that I could think of. The possibility of seasonal rise
crossed my mind too. </i>

Thanks again, All. It really does help me to get ideas, suggestions
or even "this is what I did" stories.


Jenn & Sonny


Anita Rolfe <silkie@...>
 

What is “seasonal rise” for Cushings?

Anita

He could be
entering the the seasonal rise where his Cushings is more pronounced

:


Nancy Collins <threecatfarm@...>
 

Hi Anita

Seasonal rise begins to occur in Cushing’s horses about now and continues until December or January.   ACTH will test higher.  Many folks with a firm diagnosis will increase pergolyde (or chaste berry) to help them get through this time.  Some horses who do not have high ACTH other times of the year will test higher now, so if you r first ACTH lab was in this time period, it’s wise to take that into account.  Often horses will show aggravated symptoms.

If you go to the main EC/IR list  and do an advanced archive search using Kellon as the author and seasonal rise in the message body, you’ll find lots more discussion.

Nancy C and Beau and Gabe in NH


On 7/24/07 9:56 PM, "Anita Rolfe" wrote:


 
 

What is “seasonal rise” for Cushings?

Anita

He could be
entering the the seasonal rise where his Cushings is more pronounced
: