Date
1 - 7 of 7
Hand walking and lameness
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tiggerinak
Okay, I'm not sure if this should go here or on the EC group, but
here goes... Sonny, our 18 year old Shetland, has Cushings. He's on brome hay & pergolide. He is trimmed every two weeks. Things have been going okay for a while. Not great, but he's not totally out of the game either. He is stalled almost all of the time since his grazing muzzle was recently broken, meaning he can't be out with the other horses, so we have recently taken to handwalking him. I walk him on the roads around our house in the late evenings when there is next to no traffic and it's quiet. About three days ago, we changed hay. Still brome but from a different grower. Due to an over-eager 7 year old, my last bit of his old hay went to waste, so I didn't get to mix hay for him. He's been gassy and miserable, and went down. I have had to "encourage" him to get up and we walked him around the yard last night instead of our normal street cruising. I called the vet two nights ago after the first full day of him not getting up on his own and the vet said Sonny could be suffering from low grade colic. So we have made sure to walk him more frequently the last two days. Okay, all of that for this: could walking on the street have caused him to go laminitic, in turn making him not want to get up and move around? After about 10 minutes of walking, he starts getting a hitch in his left front, and the frog in that hoof seems to be having some issues. As I write this, I start having SO many more questions about possible things. Man... this gets so overwhelming at times. If folks can ask questions based on what I've said so far, maybe that will help me direct my thoughts a bit more and give better information. Sorry for being so scatterbrained right now. There are a lot of things going on in our household right now and Sonny getting sick yet again is just adding to the complexities. Thanks for any help anyone is willing to offer. Jenn & Sonny
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Nancy Collins <threecatfarm@...>
Jenn -
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Sorry life is so complicated right now! Take a breath. I know it can be overwhelming. Just so you know...it’s okay to talk about ANYTHING affecting one of our Cushings or IR horses or ponies on the EC list. If you want me to I can copy and paste this message over there to get broader input. But you may want to add more info first. Just send up a flare and I will copy things over there for you. Assuming your trim is okay (and a two week schedule is great!), walks on the road alone would IMO not bring on what you describe. It also sounds like you are you are not running him up and down in a manner he’s not tolerated recently. It sure seems to me to be something else. Does he have digital pulses? Could it be thrush in his LF? If the frog is not well developed, thrush can really be a problem and can cause enough pain to make him off. Is he landing heel to toe or toe first? Can’t tell from your Case History if he’s IR or not. Has the new hay been tested for ESC and starch? Has anything else in his routine or diet changed? He could be entering the the seasonal rise where his Cushings is more pronounced. All I can think of right now... I know things are complicated for you. Keep breathing. If you can add more info, going to the main list is the best bet. Nancy C and Beau and Gabe in NH On 7/23/07 9:06 PM, "tiggerinak" wrote:
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silkie12002 <silkie@...>
We've had pretty much the same problem today. Our 16 yr. old Gelding Mo. Fox Trotter
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with Cushings wanted to go down after 1 1/2 days on a different hay. He's a pretty big boy--16'2. My husband walked and walked him til we could get ahold of a vet (very difficult where we live so we called a vet 180 miles away!) The vet asked us all the pertinent questions--I had Heart rate, temp. and gut sounds for him. I told the vet that we had switched him from soaked Brome to Bermuda thinking we would not have to soak the Bermuda. The Bermuda was very, very fine--short and not leafy at all, where as the Brome is leafy and long and substantial. The horse liked both-but-it seems the fine Bermuda tried to impact! The vet had me give him 12 cc's of banamine and said to walk him for 30 more minutes then give him a bran mash (hopefully to loosen things and help it pass thru) and it worked. I was told we should have soaked the bermuda too and worked it in gradually. Well, heck, if we have to soak the Bermuda, we'll just stick with the Brome, but it was a lesson learned and the horse is delighted. We have 4 horses and we've been keeping all of them up because of the thick, heavy grass this year, but they are not stalled--they have paddocks. 3 of them have tried to founder in the past-a bummer. The 16 yr. old gelding has just gotten tender footed a couple of times but we're having his feet x-rayed to make sure all is well. He's trimmed about every 3-4 weeks. He's on Pergolide and responded well. Hope you good luck with your Shetland. Anita
--- In ECHoof@..., "tiggerinak" <tiggerinak@...> wrote:
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J Amick
I have a video tape of Linda Tellington-Jones called "hands on
therapy" that addresses gas colic and regular colic. I have used
these methods many times, and they have saved me a vet coming to the
stable. Please understand something..... This is NOT to
overlook when a medical situation has gone wrong, and you need a
vet. These procedures help to ease the pain until he/she gets there
on site. I always evaluate with a stethascope for gut sounds,
check the breathing rate, and take the temp, ck for digital pulses.
Giving all of this info to the vet on the call.
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Now here is how to engage endorphins to take away the pain of the colic. First off there are many places on the horse that can be used, and you should use all of them. Each foot has 3 spots directly above the coronary band. One in the middle, and about an inch on each side. You can feel them as they are an indentation in the muscle. Press in and out like you are ringing a door bell. Up to 50-60 times if need be. Use all 3 spots. Get another person to work on another foot. All 4 feet can be done at the same time.... This gives a tremendous rush of the endorphins. If no one is there to help, do all 4 feet yourself. Second. On the muzzle, between the nostrils and about an inch down, do the same thing. "Ring the door bell".... At first they object, but be persistant, and watch it work. Third, put on latex gloves and lift the tail up with both hands and rotate the tail in both direction GENTLY. Now take your index finger and just above the anus, "ring the door bell" again... Be on the alert for gas release and possibly a "dumper".... What you are doing is releasing endorphins into the blood stream that causes relaxation. Sort of like a banamine shot. These are natural enzymes that work instantly. You will see licking and chewing, deep sigh breathing, head lowering, and just in a release in general of muscle tightness. Now to get the gut moving, I give 120 cc's of mineral oil via 60 cc (no needles) syringe and then start with a pressing in and upward motion of the belly area just in front of back leg. This takes a tremendous amt of strength, and I highly advise you to get the video and watch this procedure. I do this on both sides of the horse. It is painful to the horse, hense learn it PRIOR to needing to use this procedure. Practice these procedures on your horse when it is well.... No surprises then. Lastly, keep walking the horse and/or load the horse on to a trailer... They always poop! I have pulled many a horse out of a crisis situation and got gas relief, and got the gut moving again. As a matter of fact, vaccinations were given last Friday AM, and I had a horse go into a colic situation that night. New horse I bought. Didn't know her well. Did all that I have shared with you and she gave me a huge burp of gas, and a dumper as well. It was 10 PM, and I called the vet in the early AM just to make certain of any other problems related to the shots. I was told that she was feverish, and to give her some antibiotics. It was an allergic response to the carrier that is used for the vaccines themselves. Called a secondary infection.... Horse is fine now. I would like to stress that one needs to be very well aware of all the "red flags" in owning a horse and when YOU simply are not confident to tackle the medical case. Call the vet, and then start your procedures until the vet gets there. Having been around horses for many years and knowing my own inside and out, I can determine when or if to call the vet. For a newbie, or "novice" horse owner, make the call and then do these suggestions. I realize these suggestions do NOT address the lameness issue, but they will help a colic situation. Hope this helps some. BTW, I'd soak that new hay until you can get it analyzed for sugar etc. Judy-PA tiggerinak wrote:
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tiggerinak
Thanks to all of you for your suggestions and your thoughts. I
managed to get a couple of bales of hay from my neighbor that are brown and stick-like, as opposed to greener and probably sweeter stuff that I bought. I have been mixing them and he seems to be feeling better. I couldn't get a hold of any banimine but I had some bute, which the vet said would be the secondary recommendation for "on-hand" meds. We also put him on blueboard. This morning when I went down to feed, I tossed his mixed hay into his stall and he actually got up on his own, super slow but on his own nonetheless, to eat. Another change was that he wasn't blowing gas once he stood up as opposed to the last few days when he has looked a little bloated and was blowing more air than a summer breeze, his tail remaining "up" between gusts. He hasn't pooped or peed as much as I think he should have by now, but he's still doing both. The vet had suggested the possibility of feeding him a bran mash, but with him being Cushings I'm not sure what exactly to put in it. Anyone have a recipe? To answer questions: Does he have digital pulses? <i>Yes, a slow throbbing one in one of his front, (I don't recall which one right this moment,) and a not-as- pronounced one in the other. I thought I felt one in the rear hooves also but once he stood up and was on his feet for a few minutes, it seemed to have disappeared.</i> Could it be thrush in his LF? If the frog is not well developed, thrush can really be a problem and can cause enough pain to make him off. <I>It could be. But I didn't see any black tar and the smell is no worse than usual poo/pee trapped in pine shavings and crammed in a crevice. *smile* We have been cleaning his hooves every day, sometimes twice a day just to get the packed stuff out and allow his hooves some air time to dry out. My trimmer came by the morning after I originally posted and she said that the frog may just be sloughing off the bad parts. (That's the simple way of saying what she said.)</i> Is he landing heel to toe or toe first? <i>He's been walking heel-toe for a while now. I have been watching closely to make sure that doesn't change and so far it hasn't.</i> Can't tell from your Case History if he's IR or not. <i>I'm not sure that we've ever tested him to find out if he is or not. We've tested his Cushings but not for IR.</i> Has the new hay been tested for ESC and starch? <i>Not yet. I have to borrow a hay corer from the local University Ag. School.</i> Has anything else in his routine or diet changed? He could be entering the the seasonal rise where his Cushings is more pronounced. <i>Not that I could think of. The possibility of seasonal rise crossed my mind too. </i> Thanks again, All. It really does help me to get ideas, suggestions or even "this is what I did" stories. Jenn & Sonny
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Anita Rolfe <silkie@...>
What is “seasonal rise” for Cushings?
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Anita He could be entering the the seasonal rise where his Cushings is more pronounced
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Nancy Collins <threecatfarm@...>
Hi Anita
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Seasonal rise begins to occur in Cushing’s horses about now and continues until December or January. ACTH will test higher. Many folks with a firm diagnosis will increase pergolyde (or chaste berry) to help them get through this time. Some horses who do not have high ACTH other times of the year will test higher now, so if you r first ACTH lab was in this time period, it’s wise to take that into account. Often horses will show aggravated symptoms. If you go to the main EC/IR list and do an advanced archive search using Kellon as the author and seasonal rise in the message body, you’ll find lots more discussion. Nancy C and Beau and Gabe in NH On 7/24/07 9:56 PM, "Anita Rolfe" wrote:
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