Hoof casts/was Update on GP dressage horse with founder


briarskingstonnet <briars@...>
 

aren't running back to their farrier's with a new technique that is
barely known outside of a small section of the country,
This part is baffling to me because I think I'm right in saying that
Dave invented the hoof casts 15 years ago.Abby?

and feeling comfortable that their farrier will, 1. apply the
technique, 2. apply it correctly and well.
To my mind one of the beauties of the hoof casts is that an owner can
apply them herself.I think anyone who can vetrap a hoof can manage
the roll of cast.Not that it's dead easy,but with a little care it is
very managable.
Having said that,my trimmer applied Drummer's casts.But he had never
heard of them before I mentioned them.He watched Dave's video,read
the messages I received from people familiar with them and with
Drummer's hoof pix,and they went on witho9ut a hitch.
<snip>

I think it would be more beneficial to everyone for more
information on casting to be available, so that people could choose
to use it with some confidence.
Totally agree.

It's hard to get people to experiment with stuff if they have
other established options available, such as trimming and booting.
In my case we had done all of that and more.Nothing could seem to get
Drummer over that last little hump to soundness without boots.And no
boots we tried would be kind to his heel bulbs.

We have several certified trimmers in our area, and many of us have
successfully rehabbed our own horses. If I had the option of using
you to treat my horses and you could demonstrate why shoeing them
with the goal of achieving an ideal foot and eventual barefoot, I
would certainly consider it,
Dawn, are you still thinking of the hoof casts here?And assuming they
need to have shoes nailed on to be used?Or have I missed a verb
somewhere?Because certainly no nails are required if shoes are used
with the casts.Drummer has backwards shoes under his casts.No nails.


> I could see where shoeing and casting the foot with some kind of
domed support in the sole would be beneficial. Again, Abby, this is
where the average horse owner would need someone with your
experience and expertise to apply the pads, shoes, and casts and
unless you can clone yourself many times over, many people on the
EC list are going to have to look to other options if they want to
improve their horses feet.
Well,not exactly.Abby and I have never met.My trimmer applied the
casts,having read messages from her explaining her own experiences
with the casts.And viewing Dave's video.

For me the casts are non-invasive(very important),inexpensive ($15.00
a roll to do one foot),easy to apply,are fine in all kinds of
weather/footing,and make huge sense.
But Drummer has the final say,and he loves them,and is sound after 5
years of trying to get there.

Please don't misunderstand.I'm not trying to convince anyone of
anything.It's just that when you find something with the properties
of the casts that give your horse comfort,and allow him to
heal....well,you HAVE to speak up.I know we all feel that way.

I'm learning a lot from this discussion,too.

Lorna
Ontario.


Abby Nemec
 

briarskingstonnet wrote:
aren't running back to their farrier's with a new technique that is barely known outside of a small section of the country,
This part is baffling to me because I think I'm right in saying that Dave invented the hoof casts 15 years ago.Abby?

Actually, Dave started by using the 3M casting tape for hoof casting back in the early 90s. He found a cast manufacturer a few years ago who was willing to work with him on developing an equine-specific product for the hoof care market. I've been using them for a year and a half, and in that time he's made several changes to improve the usability and effectiveness of the product.

Many farriers have experience with the 3M product, but the original application method recommended was all wrong and it caused hoof contraction. Dave Richards' method is very different, and makes a world of change for the horse.

Well,not exactly.Abby and I have never met.My trimmer applied the casts,having read messages from her explaining her own experiences with the casts.And viewing Dave's video.
And there are several other list members in that same position.

But Drummer has the final say,and he loves them,and is sound after 5 years of trying to get there.
Okay let me step in here! Drummer is not sound. Drummer is comfortable enough to finally be healing, moving, and growing that healthy foot that has evaded him for so long. When the new foot reaches the ground and you can pull his casts for good? THEN he will be sound. But in the meantime, I'll take comfort!


-A



--
**************************
Abby Bloxsom
www.advantedgeconsulting.com


briarskingstonnet <briars@...>
 

Okay let me step in here! Drummer is not sound. Drummer is
comfortable
enough to finally be healing, moving, and growing that healthy foot
that
has evaded him for so long. When the new foot reaches the ground and
you can pull his casts for good? THEN he will be sound. But in the
meantime, I'll take comfort!
YES!
I need to be more careful.Thanks for catching that,Abby.
He is sound to the eye. I know that if we took the casts off tomorrow
he would not walk with the same comfort he has now.There has not been
enough time to heal.
And I'll take comfort,too.
Even though he had a comfort level in boots,he was not healing at the
same time as he was wearing them.

Lorna


Jenny Edwards <jaennyedwards@...>
 

On 24-Feb-08, at 1:13 AM, Abby Bloxsom wrote:

Jenny Edwards wrote:
>
> I think it's wonderful that Drummer is much more comfortable in the
> casts but I would be reluctant to take his level of comfort as an
> indication of healing.

Actually, his level of comfort is an indication of comfort, and nothing
more. 

yes that was my point

You just have to take my word for it at this point that when you
take them off you're going to see something remarkable.

That's why I would love to see pictures. Do you have any "before" and "after" pics?

OR ... you
could try them yourself!

I could - but I'd prefer to see evidence of them working first.  I only said that I was skeptical but it seems to have been interpreted as I am against the casts, which is not true. How can I be when I've no real experience either way? I was hoping to draw on the experience of this group via photos etc, but at this point that does not seem to be very forthcoming.

> I am very interested in seeing progress pictures of his hooves - I have
> to admit that I too am a bit sceptical of the casts at this stage
> (mainly because of the wall loading issue and if they are put on when
> fully weightbearing does that not mean that the hoof wall still has room
> to move and hence the cast isn't really holding the hoof wall all that
> tight?) -

 
YES. That's what I keep saying. They provide some sort of "boundary" 
for the normal function of the foot.

Seems that we are agreeing again... ;o)


Analogy time:

If you break an arm, the doctor puts it in a cast. The cast is not so
tight that nothing moves at all - you can still wiggle your fingers,
stick a pencil down there to scratch yourself, etc. HOWEVER, it DOES
provide enough stability to the fracture so that the little bone cells
can grow across the opening and slowly but surely bond the broken pieces
back together.

Is this sounding familiar?

In a very loose way, yes it is familiar - but a broken arm is not usually bearing the weight of the body, so you can't really compare...


> but would love to see them work. Maybe the reason they work
> is because they allow the horse more comfort which means the horse moves
> more, which in turn increases the blood supply and boosts healing
> ability of the hoof?
>

That is a part of it, for sure. BUT the stability they provide ALSO
helps with the healing. It's not just about comfort, or boots and shoes
would do the same thing.

-Abby

 and hence why I am very interested in seeing photos (or x-rays) of hooves this product has been used on. 

Jenny


Nancy C
 

Hi Jenny

Just my reading of your exchanges, but FWIW, I'm not reading that you are against the cast.  As Dawn pointed out, this list is about asking questions and getting answers and we are certainly known for being skeptical!

About the pictures....a couple of folks who are going through this right now have offered to take photos.  So hopefully your patience will pay off in the end.  I may have missed it - I'm presuming you went to the web site already.

Nancy C
EC Hoof
Co-moderator

On Feb 24, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Jenny Edwards wrote:

I could - but I'd prefer to see evidence of them working first.  I only said that I was skeptical but it seems to have been interpreted as I am against the casts, which is not true. How can I be when I've no real experience either way? I was hoping to draw on the experience of this group via photos etc, but at this point that does not seem to be very forthcoming.


Jax The Wonder Cat <jaxthewondercat@...>
 

I will say that my horse with sinker founder probably owes her life (and my sanity) to hoof casts.  Without stability to P3 we were in abscess h*ll and stuck in hoof boots forever it seemed except that her feet were getting too soft and the boots were rubbing the heels and 2 months into hoof casts (first without shoes, wasn't enough support) second with shoes under (but no nails) she is moving much sounder and her feet look so much healthier already.  Not everything is going to work for every horse but these do a fine job of holding things together and letting the foot regrow without nails (and thus the drugs required to get them in).  I think owners and farriers both would do well to keep an open mind about any sort of tool that can help these horses.  jamie coughlin


valdavoli <STOMPERX@...>
 

--- In ECHoof@..., "Jax The Wonder Cat"
<jaxthewondercat@...> wrote:

I will say that my horse with sinker founder probably owes her life
(and my sanity) to hoof casts. Without stability to P3 we were in
abscess h*ll and stuck in hoof boots forever it seemed except that
her feet were getting too soft and the boots were rubbing the heels
and 2 months into hoof casts (first without shoes, wasn't enough
support) second with shoes under (but no nails) she is moving much
sounder and her feet look so much healthier already.

jamie coughlin

Jamie? can you tell me more? about your experiences? you can email
me privately if you would rather.

val

Val


Abby Nemec
 

Jenny Edwards wrote:

OR ... you
could try them yourself!
I could - but I'd prefer to see evidence of them working first. I only said that I was skeptical but it seems to have been interpreted as I am against the casts, which is not true. How can I be when I've no real experience either way? I was hoping to draw on the experience of this group via photos etc, but at this point that does not seem to be very forthcoming.
I don't know what your hoof care experience is, sorry, but I'm assuming (bad) that you have a fair amount based on the nature of your posts.

If so, then you surely realize that changes in hoof shape & function appear gradually over time. Since I've only just recently got list people on the hoof casting bandwagon, the only "results" you're going to see are the short term ones. You will get the 2-4-8-week reports, which are still pretty much "WOW! comfort!". The pictures are going to have to appear here over time.

Testimonials are bad, in and of themselves, if we are asking people to say "hey it worked for me, try it!!!" That is the standard we are held to on the EC lists. HOWEVER - we are also always saying that anecdotal evidence is valuable BECAUSE it leads us to investigate possible hypotheses, and explore potential modes of action. It's only by trying stuff & messing with results that we ever get anywhere. That's the phase we're at with hoof casts.

All I'm saying is that I'd like to dispel folks' concerns about harmful effects of the casts when they're used according to Equicast's protocol. If you try them, & like them, then we can all talk more about possible modes of action. I'm not saying "treat your horse this way - they work because I said so". I'm saying "these are a really cool tool and they are not as scary as they seem to be at first - let us know what your results are". There's a world of difference.


Is this sounding familiar?
In a very loose way, yes it is familiar - but a broken arm is not usually bearing the weight of the body, so you can't really compare...
Well no it's not, but the analogy still holds.

-Abby


--
**************************
Abby Bloxsom
www.advantedgeconsulting.com