Lateral-medial stepping


Maria Duran
 

As suggested per Dr. Kellon I ask here. I thought being Yayo a PPID horse it belonged to ECIR Group sorry.

Hi all,

I have noticed that Yayo steps in two times with his right front hoof, first lateral then medial side. It is veeery obvious. This is the hoof that was more painful after the trim.

I have tried to find out if the heels or hoof wall is longer in lateral than in medial side but it is very difficult with the shoe on. It seems to be fine but I don't know.

- What can cause the lateral first landing?

- Is there any other likely reason like avoiding pain in a joint or at hoof sole level or only related to the trim? 

- If he lands first with the lateral side, this mean that lateral is longer not shorter, right. ?

Thank you very much.

María Durán.
Madrid, Spain.


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 
Edited

If there are imbalances in the trim you can get an uneven landing. This can be one side longer than the other, breakover that isn't aligned with the center of the leg, that is affecting the flight path of the limb. Having a shoe attached to onto an imbalanced trim will exacerbate any issues like this.

Pain in some part of the foot or leg could also affect the way it lands as the horse attempts to keep from bearing full weight on the painful part. Usually, however, this means there is just obvious lameness.

If you want to see it better, have someone walk the horse for you while you video him walking toward you. Hold the camera steady and down low. Also, take a video of the horse walking past you, again with the camera at leg level. Then you can watch the video, slowing it down if needed to watch various parts of the leg/foot as it moves.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Sherlene Turner
 

Hi Maria,
Do you have a video of your horse moving?
For standing still, Vet Scott Morrison created this guide: https://www.roodandriddle.com/services/equine-podiatry/hoof-capsule-distortion
In short, he says:
If the lateral heel is trimmed lower then the limb postures with a base narrow stance. If the medial heel is trimmed lower then the limb will have a base wide posture.

If the lateral toe is trimmed lower than the limb will take a toe in posture (pigeon toe) but if the medial toe is trimmed lower, then the limb will toe out (splayed).
--
Sherlene Klemens
Bundaberg, Qld, Australia
joined 2012


Maria Duran
 

Thank you very much Lavinia.
I thought the shoe would lessen not worsen an imbalance in the trim, so I guess it confims the issue is the trim as he wasn't doing this before the trim.

Thanks a lot.


Maria Duran
 

On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 03:11 AM, Lavinia Fiscaletti wrote:


If you want to see it better, have someone walk the horse for you while you video him walking toward you. Hold the camera steady and down low. Also, take a video of the horse walking past you, again with the camera at leg level. Then you can watch the video, slowing it down if needed to watch various parts of the leg/foot as it moves.

Yes I did this. I have the videos and I can see it but for some reason it is much more obvious when you see it directly in person. 


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Maria Duran
 

Amazing Sherlene, thank you very much for sharing this and for summarizing it up for me.

There is one thing that I don't understand "If the lateral toe is trimmed lower than the limb" what does it mean, lower than the limb?

Thank you!


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

I believe that is a typo, Maria. It should read "lower, THEN the limb"....

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Maria Duran
 

Thanks Lavinia, 

Yes that makes sense. I should have been able to figure it out by reading the next sentence.


Sherlene Turner
 

Hi Maria,
Lavina picked up the typo. Sorry it should have read 'then' not than.

Sherlene 
Klemens



On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 5:17 PM Maria Duran <cursos@...> wrote:
Amazing Sherlene, thank you very much for sharing this and for summarizing it up for me.

There is one thing that I don't understand "If the lateral toe is trimmed lower than the limb" what does it mean, lower than the limb?

Thank you!


--
Sherlene Klemens
Bundaberg, Qld, Australia
joined 2012


Maria Duran
 

Hi Lavinia,

Yesterday I was talking to Yayo´s farrier. I believe he finally will listen to me about not removing his soles but he said something I would like to have your opinion. 

About the calloused area just underneath the tip of the coffin bone where Yayo grows more sole, he said he removes it because the callus puts more pressure the inside structures and it is painful for him. I believe this is a protective tissue that Yayo grows because he needs it but what do you think about this?

The other thing he mentioned is that he lowers his heels so much because he is trying to move them backwards as they are underun. If I think about it, yes by trimming the heels they move backwards but at the same time, Yayo needs more heel height due to his broken back HPA, so how do you get the heels to move backwards without lowring the heels? Just leaving the height he needs and doing a rolling is enough?


Thank you very much.

María Durán.


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Sole thickness generally starts to build in the areas closest to the frog, then moves outward. It doesn't necessarily increase uniformly across the entire area of the sole - areas that receive increased pressure (and need the greatest protection) will regenerate faster, so the sole may appear lumpy. By removing those areas of sole, your farrier is constantly preventing the sole from being able to increase in thickness and density. Please get him to just leave all of it alone, even is it appears to be exfoliating - it can do that on its own.

Underrun heels take patience and time when there is no excess vertical height to work with. If you keep backing them up, the horse will continue to land hard on the too-low heels/digital cushion/heel bulbs, jamming them forward with every stride. Just lightly maintain the buttresses where they are - no more than a single pass of the rasp across them plus light paring of the bar-wall junction - then add a rocker/bevel to very back of the current heel buttress.  Allow the vertical height of the heel buttresses to increase in their current location. Have a read here:

http://www.hoofrehab.com/HorsesSole.html

http://www.hoofrehab.com/HeelHeight.html

http://www.hoofrehab.com/FrogTrim.html

Need to prioritize heel-first landings. Anytime he lands toe-first is a bad thing that needs to be corrected. He should never be worse after trimming than he was before.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Maria Duran
 

Thank you so much Lavinia. Great explanation, I perfectly understand what you say. It is what I had understood but wasn't sure about it.

I will read Pete's articles thank you.

Lavinia thanks a lot for your time and support, it helps me to deffend Yayo's ideal trim. I don't know how someone can get the learning so wrong, this person runs a trimming school in Spain and the school is very well known. It is owned and under the learnings of Daniel Anz. Do you know him? The school is Balance F.

I am glad I am here to be guided and feel very much of common sense what Pete teaches.


Maria Duran
 

Would like to add to be fair that he is a very good person and is listening. Wasn't my intention to criticize, just I am in shock about how different the theories about hoof trimming can be. At the end it is the horse who speaks about what is right or wrong and Yayo is telling it is wrong.


suzy zarek
 


--So true about right and wrong. My horses have told me to keep the correct toe length and it will help the heels not under run. Keeping the toe correct will also help the sole greatly.To help them out of being underrun do not lower the heel beyond the normal height but do shorten the heel quarter. Just my observations.
Suzy Nebraska 2019


Maria Duran
 

Thank you Susy, what do you mean by heel quarter? Sorry but still green for some names in english.

María.


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

I hadn't heard of Balance F so did some reading. The website is full of accolades but very thin on actual specifics. From what I can gather, it espouses the same principles as most of the schools of barefoot trimming.

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Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


Maria Duran
 

On Mon, Feb 24, 2020 at 07:17 PM, Lavinia Fiscaletti wrote:
I hadn't heard of Balance F so did some reading. The website is full of accolades but very thin on actual specifics. From what I can gather, it espouses the same principles as most of the schools of barefoot trimming.

Yes but then the truth is that I know 7 trimmers following the method and all but one do the same, trim heels and bars to sole level, remove "false sole" excesively and don´t address the toes as they should in my opinion.


suzy zarek
 

The area of the hoof just in front of the point of heel is what I call the heel quarter. If you look at the hoof as a clock, 6 o’clock is the center of the back of the hoof splitting the frog. So say the heels point is at 7 o’clock, the quarters are from 7 to 8:80. Just shorten below the heel so there is a little lift like a very small sliver of the moon. You can do this all the way to 10:30. The more space being at just past 7 and tapering to none at 10:30. I hope that makes since.

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


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Suzy Nebraska 2019


Maria Duran
 

Thank you Suzy, perfectly clear. I read that also in one of Pete's articles.

Thanks for the explanation.


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Without any information on the website that explains the specifics of what their method actually entails, there is no way to make any informed observations.

What a "school" espouses and what it's practitioners actually do can be worlds apart.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support