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Shakira: Hoof Pics and XRays


larissa.supnik@...
 

Hi folks,

A friend recommended you for help for appropriately trim a lamanitic horse.

A big of background on my girl:

Shakira is a 14 years old, ~14.3hh, 3/4 Arabian.  She was rescued from an intense neglect situation in February by the local animal shelter where she had been physically trapped in her stall for 5+ years.  Photo of her when rescued included in the album to show what her feet looked like 3 months ago.  As far as I'm aware she hadn't been handled in those 5+ years, nor had she been trimmed.  As a result she has mechanical laminitis in at least one foot, and fairly messed up feet all around.  As far as the shelter was aware, she's not IR.  She was trimmed twice at the shelter under sedation to start to bring her feet back under control.

She's been in my care for ~3 weeks.  We had a failed attempt to trim her one week ago because I was unable to give administer the oral dose of dormosedan gel at the farrier's request.  (The farrier is currently the same farrier who had worked on her at the shelter).  However, doing additional work with her this week, I believe she can be trimmed without sedation by someone with patience.  She's improved a lot over the three weeks she's been here on foot handling, but still has a ways to go.

Here are the photos I was able to get along with the X-Rays provided to me by the shelter.  Apologies on the quality.  I got the pictures as best she would let me.  You can see her left feet are her "worst" - unfortunately that also means it's the one she wanted photographed the least.  https://photos.app.goo.gl/CthS1FK199AED4fN8

If there are any pictures it would be particularly useful to improve upon, please let me know and I'll see what she'll give me.

Thanks in advance for any advice!
Larissa


Patricia Evans
 

So sorry, sent an empty message! Blessings to you for taking on this girl! You have certainly changed her world. I'm sure the moderators will give you lots of information, but you can join the main group so you have access to all the wonderful info available. Since she is part Arabian, you would probably do her another world of good to get her on an ECIR diet. There is soooo much info available to help you help her. Good luck with your girl!!!!
--
Patricia 
North central Florida
July 7 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patricia%20and%20Dancer%20and%20Nathan
Dancer:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=66069

Nathan:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=94152


Patricia Evans
 

Sorry, forgot to add the link! 
-- 

main@ECIR.groups.io

Patricia 
North central Florida
July 7 2018

https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/files/Patricia%20and%20Dancer%20and%20Nathan
Dancer:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=66069

Nathan:  https://ecir.groups.io/g/CaseHistory/album?id=94152


 

Greetings!  Is this mare at your farm?  Do you see her everyday?  If so, i can offer ideas for getting her mind on you.  I am a pro trimmer, but others can help with the hoof issues.  First treat fro serious butt crack infection. 

The first thing you and anyone who wishes to help, need to do is get her confidant about humans.  Are you familiar with The water hole rituals?  She needs to Choose to be with you!  This will take a LOT of time! Build trust.  Find her itchy spot.  If you want more info, i will love to explain more details.


Diann Kuzma
One Hoof at a Time
Medford OR
Joined 2018


larissa.supnik@...
 

Hi Patricia,

Thanks!

I based her current diet from a friend with Arabians who does a great job managing horsey diets.  Should I post her diet over there for folks to check over?

Take care,
Larissa


larissa.supnik@...
 

Hi Diann,

Yes, she lives on property with my gelding and sees me 3x a day for meals + any trips I make outside to visit her or the other horse.  I try to clean her feet every day to get her used to having her feet handled and to keep the mud out of her frogs/give them a chance to heal and grow and try to get a halter on her, brush her, do something maybe 2-4 times a week depending on what work allows.

I didn't follow this: "First treat fro serious butt crack infection."  Is that treat the infection she's nursing in most of her frogs?  Currently I try to keep them clean and rinse them with trifectant when she'll let me.  I don't think I could get her to tolerate a soaking boot just yet.  Any other thoughts?  Some days she's very cooperative and some days she wants me to just go away and leave her to her own devices.

I haven't heard of "the water hole rituals".  What's that?

At the moment, her itchy spot is her mane/head/ears, and as long as I don't anything with me, she will sometimes ask for scratches if I'm out (eg. if I go out to check fences) and she's particularly itchy.

Thanks and take care,
Larissa


 

Forget about soaking boots. She is Not ready for that.  Get a few tubs of ToMorrow.  Easy to use.  It has a tip applicator.  Try to clean first, go to another hoof.  Do the Round the world. Then on the second go around, put the applicator in the crack and give a small squeeze.  ToMorrow really works!  If you can do this daily for a week, you will see a healthier frog.

Waterhole rituals are just games you can play with her.  Take a chair and Sit in her paddock/pasture.  wait for her to come to you.  If she touches you, then you can touch her back.  Scratch, use a groom brush but you must stay in the chair.

Another is approach her, get close and offer the back of your had to her nose.  Wait for her to touch you.  Then find a scratch spot.  Get her happy then walk away.  You can do this over a few days or in one day. After you walk 10-15 feet away turn and look at her.  Ask her to come to you.  If she moves a few feet, you can take a few feet to her.  The idea is to get her to see you as a safe/happy place to be.

There are many more. Look up Water hole rituals


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Larissa,

Thank-you for taking this one on. This girl is lucky to have been placed in your care.

No way to know whether she is IR or not unless there has been blood work pulled on her. Being an Arab does make it more likely. It is something that would be a good thing to definitively rule in/out going forward so that it doesn't inadvertently become a problem moving forward.

Certainly a huge improvement in her trim since that first photo - which was just sickening. Still have a ways to go, which obviously isn't being helped by her (understandable) reluctance to have her feet handled. Getting her diet tightly mineral balanced would have major benefits for her as it would make sure she has all the necessary building blocks to grow better quality horn. In the files on the main group is a list of people who do mineral balancing:

https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/6%20Diet%20Balancing/HAY%20BALANCING.pdf

Getting the mechanics tightened up is also going to be a factor. You're still dealing with long toes, underrun heels, likely thin soles. The front feet HPAs looked to be in relatively good alignment. Hind HPAs are broken back, which means you need to get more height in the back half of the feet relative to the front half.

It would be a good idea to get a new set of radiographs at this point, as the last ones were done in Feb 2020. It appears as if many of the rad views have been reversed, so it would be helpful if they are presented and labeled correctly (this is a problem from when the rads were taken).

It sounds as if trims are only being done at 6+ week intervals, which is really too long an interval to get (and keep) a physiologically correct trim in place.With the pathologies that are still present, a 3-4 week schedule would make more sense: less correction is needed; less stress on Shakira as the sessions are shorter; maintain better connections as they aren't allowed to be damaged by imbalanced overgrowth.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support


larissa.supnik@...
 

Thanks all,

I had the vet and farrier out at the beginning of June to tranquilize, trim and x-ray.  Apologies that it took me a while to post them and that I didn't think to take them the same weekend.  The x-rays were taken a month ago.  The photos were taken last week.  The x-rays were taken after 80% of the trim - he went back in and touched up her back toes based on what the x-ray showed.

Here they are as a google photo album: https://photos.app.goo.gl/4qxHmbvpCaMhn54z7

And here they are as a zip if that is preferable for anyone: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UrnVdf9rRIbYpxsLCg8cc-2aCUrBhWPs/view?usp=sharing

My hope is to do a touch up trim with help soon to get her a another week or two on this trim while some local horse friends and I continue to work on her ground manners so a professional can get her a real trim without tranqs ideally.  (But if we have to do another with tranqs, that's what we'll do - health comes first).  She is now to the point where she will let me work with a foot with minimal fuss - she'll let me clean all her feet, rinse them with a squirt bottle, or bang on her feet with hoof pick or rasp for the most part.  She will also put her front feet in a hoof stand cradle (sole up), but doesn't yet cooperate with the hoof stand where she stretches her foot forward (and her sole rests on the stand).  For a stranger, she will now allow them to clean three of her feet with minimal fuss, but is protective of her front left.  (It isn't terribly surprising that her left front would be the last holdout.  Her previous situation was sufficiently restrictive that she physically couldn't bend to the left in February, so she's always protective of her left with strangers, and her left feet are more painful than her right).

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance!
Larissa


Lavinia Fiscaletti
 

Hi Larissa,

Good on you for working on the handling aspect of this. Lots of work in the short term but such a huge payoff in the end.

From the photos, the toes are still much too long horizontally, so if you can do anything about that aspect it would be a good place to start. Heels are underrun, walls have flaring that will need to be addressed as well.

Radiographs show that the front coffin bones have remodeled with ski tips on both. All coffin bones are ground parallel, although the LF may actually have a negative plane coffin bone angle . RF appears to have some ringbone that may be impacting the joint. That could be the reason you have more trouble lifting the LF - her RF may actually be the more painful one.

--
Lavinia

Moderator/ECIR Support