Topics

Thick sole


Carrie Wilson
 

Hello,I have been trying to follow the instructions on a barefoot
trim,(I have been trimming my own horses for a few years now, but was
always trying to keep a nice heel, as thats what all my farriers did)
Now that those days are done gone after researching the barefoot way.
All my horses feet are looking great, heel down toe back,no shoes,
boots for trails, But I have one little cushings gal that I have been
trimming on now for about 2 months(slowly)today I took the rest of
the heel off, she seems to be moving fine,still has some tenderness,
but I believe she is better than she was when I got her about 3
months ago, my concern is the sole, I cant bring myself to take a
knife to any of my horses, besides most of them shed their sole very
nicely,but this gal has foundered (before I got her)and her sole
looks/feels very hard,thick and tough, mostly near the toe, and her
frog seems inset or deep in comparason to my normal horses, when I
have litely rasped the sole I have seen some pink, so I quit there.Is
this a result of the founder and something that has to completely
grow out?A few years back we got a pony that was said to have
foundered, her hooves were tall w/ deep verical lines and she was
perscribed bute for the rest of her days(she was only 7)I got the
farrier out asap and after a couple trims we found that she had a
false sole, once that was all removed her feet were perfect and
totally normal, so basicly here founder was really lack of hoof care,
no need for bute. Sorry for the run-off,Any ideas about the sole on
my cushing gal-Beauty- would be great,I have tried to upload pics in
the past but was unable too.I will try again. Thanks Carrie & Beauty


Nancy Collins <threecatfarm@...>
 

Hi Carrie -

I will be very curious to hear what the real hoof folk say, but I may have problems similar to yours. I have no personal experience with a false soul so will defer to them on that point.

We’ve been backing up the heels and taking back the toes forever it seems and I can get little concavity or sole depth.  If I accidentally rasp anything near what should be the callous, I get the pink/ivory tissue you describe.  It seems thick, especially now that the dry weather is here. He was tender to hoof testers in the wet of March and April.

Anyway, for us, I think it’s really still coffin bone dissent from high insulin numbers.  I am working with the diet this summer, keeping him totally off grass to see if that changes things.  In a perfect world, a more balanced metabolism will allow good hoof connection, better concavity and sole depth.

Has your girl had xrays?  Is there blood work to confirm the Cushings or Insulin resistance?  I checked your history and some of her symptoms are suggestive of IR.  

Carrie, if you need help loading photos, let me know.  Before you go to the barn to take them, please check out How To Take Good Photos in the files section.  It really helps you to get good input!

Nancy C and Beau and Gabe in NH


On 6/13/07 10:25 PM, "Carrie Wilson" wrote:


 
 

Hello,I have been trying to follow the instructions on a barefoot
trim,(I have been trimming my own horses for a few years now, but was
always trying to keep a nice heel, as thats what all my farriers did)
Now that those days are done gone after researching the barefoot way.
All my horses feet are looking great, heel down toe back,no shoes,
boots for trails, But I have one little cushings gal that I have been
trimming on now for about 2 months(slowly)today I took the rest of
the heel off, she seems to be moving fine,still has some tenderness,
but I believe she is better than she was when I got her about 3
months ago, my concern is the sole, I cant bring myself to take a
knife to any of my horses, besides most of them shed their sole very
nicely,but this gal has  foundered (before I got her)and her sole
looks/feels very hard,thick and tough, mostly near the toe, and her
frog seems inset or deep in comparason to my normal horses, when I
have litely rasped the sole I have seen some pink, so I quit there.Is
this a result of the founder and something that has to completely
grow out?A few years back we got a pony that was said to have
foundered, her hooves were tall w/ deep verical lines and she was
perscribed bute for the rest of her days(she was only 7)I got the
farrier out asap and after a couple trims we found that she had a
false sole, once that was all removed her feet were perfect and
totally normal, so basicly here founder was really lack of hoof care,
no need for bute. Sorry for the run-off,Any ideas about the sole on
my cushing gal-Beauty- would be great,I have tried to upload pics in
the past but was unable too.I will try again. Thanks Carrie & Beauty

 
    


Abby Nemec
 

---- Nancy Collins <threecatfarm@firstbridge.net> wrote:

We¹ve been backing up the heels and taking back the toes forever it seems
and I can get little concavity or sole depth. If I accidentally rasp
anything near what should be the callous, I get the pink/ivory tissue you
describe. It seems thick, especially now that the dry weather is here. He
was tender to hoof testers in the wet of March and April.
I'm answering these somewhat out of sequence - so forgive me if this ground has already been covered -


---- Nancy Collins <threecatfarm@firstbridge.net> wrote:

We¹ve been backing up the heels and taking back the toes forever it seems
and I can get little concavity or sole depth. If I accidentally rasp
anything near what should be the callous, I get the pink/ivory tissue you
describe. It seems thick, especially now that the dry weather is here. He
was tender to hoof testers in the wet of March and April.
Very early in my experience with Cushings/IR/Laminitis I saw that there was a very high incidence of this dense, hard, ivory colored false sole at the toe, and because every time I rasped into it I would see "pink stuff", I stayed away.

It took years for me to get a grasp on the fact that the "pink stuff" is not bloody. (Trust me, when you rasp into bloody stuff, you'll know it!) In fact, that false sole can cause pressure points of its own, and it is often REALLY hard to get it to pop out.

Eleanor once said something that I repeat to myself over & over when I'm not sure what to do next: "The blood supply is attached to the bone." If you know you're not near the bone (if you have xrays, for example) then anything you see that's pink/red is not from immediate problems, and you can file right through it. If you get serum, black stuff, pus, etc when you're doing that, you've entered an abscess tract.

How, then, do we get rid of the false sole at the toe (especially when some of those "mustang" folks out there are saying "DON'T TOUCH THE SOLE CALLUS!")? If you're lowering heels then you should be seeing flaky, exfoliating sole in the quarters, in front of the bars. If not, then you can go looking for it by working your knife in around the tip of the frog. Some horses don't have a good margin at the tip of the frog, and you'll need to back up toward the heel to find parts of the sole that are softer. If you can't find anything like that, soak the foot for 20 min before trimming.

If you take your hoof knife, and kind of "search" forward from the exfoliating sole area into the area of false sole toward the toe. Somewhere in there you should find the margin between the two. Pick at the edge of the false sole with your knife to see if it will chip back. It will be REALLY hard.

If there's no good margin and the false sole is creating a bulge and/or pressure point (e.g. positive to hoof testers at the toe) you can also take a rasp and file some concavity into that area. Keep in mind that with hoof rehab, function follows form. You put the right shape on the foot (including, if necessary, helping that piece of false sole to let go), and the function will improve.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN that any horse with false sole should have it removed, of course. On a severely compromised foot, it takes several months (3-4 at least) for the top of the foot to grow in and start to create the concavity in the sole - sometimes another one or two for the healthy sole to regenerate. You shouldn't try to remove the false sole before that.

-Abby


Nancy Collins <threecatfarm@...>
 

Abby

Thanks for that explanation. It's very clear and I need to go take a closer
look, hopefully this weekend. I really think we are still growing out a
good foot. We are still throwing dead lamina. And growing out an old
January coronary abscess. I know, I know. :-( But the back of the foot is
getting better and better. He walks heel first unless he hits a stone.

Would a false sole sound and/or feel hollow? I'm thinking as you said, that
as the good new hoof wall comes in, this should begin to resolve itself.
You've given me markers to look for.

I think I get the corium/blood part of the anatomy program. I'm not really
scared of pinky stuff (well, mostly not scared) except to not make him sore.
And I've seen the dark old blood abscesses on the sole so that's okay too.
I don't have any of that.

I need to post pictures. Will let you know.

Thanks for the education.

Nancy C and Beau and Gabe in NH

---- Nancy Collins <threecatfarm@firstbridge.net> wrote:

We¹ve been backing up the heels and taking back the toes forever it seems
and I can get little concavity or sole depth. If I accidentally rasp
anything near what should be the callous, I get the pink/ivory tissue you
describe. It seems thick, especially now that the dry weather is here. He
was tender to hoof testers in the wet of March and April.
On 6/19/07 10:15 AM, "Abby Bloxsom" <dearab@charter.net> wrote:

THAT DOES NOT MEAN that any horse with false sole should have it removed, of
course. On a severely compromised foot, it takes several months (3-4 at
least) for the top of the foot to grow in and start to create the concavity in
the sole - sometimes another one or two for the healthy sole to regenerate.
You shouldn't try to remove the false sole before that.

-Abby


Abby Nemec
 

Nancy Collins wrote:

Would a false sole sound and/or feel hollow?
Sometimes it moves under hoof testers - looks like a thin sole - but
often not, too. Can't really say one way or the other.

I think I get the corium/blood part of the anatomy program.
No matter what, we're all a little scared of the blood/pink stuff, as we
should be. Openings in the foot are really not a good thing as a
general rule.

The only thing you can do is - when you SEE the pink stuff, back up a
step & take a good look at what you have. Where is the root of the frog
tip? What does the coronet band look like (widows peak in front?
arching sides?) How deep are the lateral sulci? How tight are the
laminae? Dishing in the upper dorsal wall? All those things are
markers of possible rotation, so keep your recent xrays close by and be
careful/thoughtful about what you do. Make little corrections and watch
how the foot responds. If the details of all those things agree that
you're not near the actual bone, then you can probably be more
aggressive if you need to.

If you can afford to wait, you have some pea stone (which does a lot of
Mother Nature's trimming), and the horse is not more sore after a trim,
then there's probably little harm in leaving the false sole there until
the horse shucks it on their own.

-A


--
**************************
Abby Bloxsom
www.advantedgeconsulting.com