Re: Hello new to the group...need help


janieclougher@...
 

Hi, and welcome to the list.
<<<<...I'm trying to fill out a case history/info Questionnaire for my senior IR pony who now also has Cushings....>>>>>>

Excellent!  The case history goes a long way towards getting us the right information to help us help you to aid your pony.

You are going to get a lot of information thrown at you.  Don't panic - we were all overwhelmed at the beginning of our IR/PPID journey.  Just take it one day at a time. The list philosophy is Diagnosis, Diet, Exercise and Trim.

You already have a diagnosis of IR and PPID.

I am going to start with the Prascend, because that is the most immediate concern.  It is very common for horses to experience the "Pergolide Veil", when started abruptly on Prascend (which is pergolide) at the full 1 mg dose.  The way to avoid this is to start with 0.25 mg daily for 4 days, and increase by .25 mg every 4 days.  So, days 1-4 he gets 0.25 mg. Days 5-8 he gets 0.5 mg.  Days 9-12 he gets 0.75 mg.  On day 13 he will be up to his full dose of 1 mg.

Go back to 0.5 mg (half a tablet), and see if he perks up in a day or two.  If not, then go right back to 0.25 mg, and add in APF.

http://www.auburnlabs.com/

This product actually has science and studies behind it, not just uninformed opinion, and it works really well.  It is an adaptogen, very useful in times of stress.

One shouldn't break the Prascend tablets into quarters (according to the manufacturers), so dissolve 1/2 tablet in a known amount of water, and give half of that, reserving the other half for the next day.

You have fallen into the trap that most of us fall into:  tossing everything including the kitchen sink in an effort to help our horses and  ponies.  This is one time where "Less is more"  definitely applies!

Other than the herbs and supplements, is he on any medication besides Prascend at the moment?

The best thing right now is to start him on the Temporary Emergency Diet:  If his timothy hay has been tested as below 10% ESC + starch, then no need to soak it.  Add in  1/2 teaspoon of magnesium oxide; ( or 1 dose of Remission, since you have that on hand, and it will provide 6 grams of magnesium.); 1,000 mg of Vitamin E in capsules containing soy oil (depending on your pony's weight - the dose is 1,000 mg per 500 lbs); 2 oz of ground, stabilized flax seed; and 1/2 tbspn of salt.

Diet is supremely important, in some ways more for what is not fed: no pasture, sweet feeds, oats/grain, carrots, apples, iron-containing supplements.

TC Senior is much to high in starch for an IR pony, even in small amounts. As a carrier for the Remission, Vtiamin E, flax and salt you can use rinsed/soaked/rinsed non-molasses beet pulp; or soy hull pellets; or Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance Cubes. Add a snifter of TC Lite as a taste tempter, or use Nuzu Stabul 1.

Ditto Pennfield Figergized Omega: 6% starch and 10% sugars; plus the Omega 6 to Omega3 ratio is reversed, so it is pro-inflammatory.

http://www.nutrenaworld.com/products/horses/pennfield/fibergized-omega/index.jsp

Now, about the supplements:

Heiro provides only 57mg of magnesium per dose, plus a bunch of stuff that not only is not needed, but could be harmful. However, since the amounts of these products isn't listed, it is impossible to know.  The greatest damage that Heiro does is on the website, where it says you can get your insulin-resistant horse back on pasture by using this product. Balderdash.  It is snake oil, no more, no less.

Remission is fine, but it much less expensive to use plain magnesium oxide - should be around $30 for a 50 lb bag at the feed store.  Niacin shouldn't be used in IR horses, but 40 mg is probably not enough to make a difference. Similarly, there is not enough of the other ingredients to put in a gnat's eye, so it works out to be just expensive magnesium.

All of the For the Love of the Horse products are pretty much snake oil, and there are too many inaccuracies on the website to list here.  One example is that MMP's are not implicated in endocrine laminitis, but rather in feed-room break-in grain overload, which is a very different thing.  So, even if the MMP Stop would reduce production of MMP (I highly doubt this), it won't do anything for laminitis due to IR or Cushings.  I applaud your desire to do everything to help your pony.  Tossing out the Heiro and the FLOTH herbs is a good start.

MSM can interfere with copper absorption, so don't use that until all the diet and mineral balancing is in place, and then use with caution. (ie, add extra copper)

Progressive Nutritions ProAdd Ultimate ration balancer:  This is mostly just a protein supplement.  Too much protein can cause insulin to increase, so I very much doubt your pony needs this. I would stop using it for the meantime.

http://www.prognutrition.com/pn/products/supplements/proadd-ultimate/index.jsp

Phew!  The short version of all of this is:  Take him off pasture. Don't feed him anything except his hay, Vitamin E, salt, stabilized flax, and Remission (for the magnesium), in a suitable carrier sucha as rinsed/soaked/rinsed beet pulp.  (plus his Prascend and APF, of course)  Once you get him doing well on this temporary emergency diet and the Prascend, we can talk about balancing the minerals to your hay.

The trim of the foot is short toe, low heel (but not under-run), balanced to the structures inside the hoof.  It is great to have x-rays to confirm a balanced trim.

Exercise: only as able.  Never force a laminitic horse to move; laminitic horses should not be ridden until 1/2 at least of a new, well-connected foot has grown in, which will be 6 months to a year.

Ask any and all questions! Oh, yes - and sign your posts with your name, date of joining, and general location so we know what resources you have in your neighbourhood.



---In EquineCushings@..., <cammaranonicole@...> wrote :

Hello
I'm new to the group ...I'm trying to fill out a case history/info Questionnaire for my senior IR pony who now also has Cushings....

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