Re: Ongoing care
Welcome to the group! Thank you for filling out a CH on Floss- and for putting the link in your signature. It makes it so much easier for us to answer your questions fully.
I have a few more questions. Have you had any bloods taken? Do you know what the trigger is/was for her laminitis?
Being a QH- it’s highly unlikely that she has PPID/ but it is possible that she is IR. QH are known for having a “thrifty” gene so some are just very good doers that occasionally get into trouble. Blood work should help differentiate that. In the mean time, let’s assume that she’s IR and attend to that accordingly. If you have had bloods taken, please add that to your case history,
I will give you some details about our philosophy called DDT/E, short for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise, and address your concerns as best as I can.
DIAGNOSIS: Is done with blood work. We recommend having blood drawn to test for Insulin, Glucose, Leptin and ACTH. ACTH is used to diagnose PPID (Cushings) while insulin, glucose and leptin are used to diagnose Insulin Resistance (IR). The samples should be drawn at home and NON-fasting as fasting will produce artificially low results and are a holdover from human testing protocols. For further information regarding blood testing – have a look at this file. https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/files/9d%20Country%20Specific%20Information/Australia
When you get the results from the vet – add them to your case history and that will help us guide you better.
Diet: We prefer grass hay/ native grass/meadow hay tested to be under 10% sugar+starch, plus a low fat (4% or under) mineral balanced diet. We also add Vitamin E and ground flax seed. This diet is crucial for an IR horse, but it also supports the delicate immune system of the PPID horse. Until you can get the diet squared- I recommend using the emergency diet you were sent when you joined.
In the meantime, this is a safe, temporary way to feed that won't do any harm but will definitely help an IR/PPID equine. As important as what to feed is what NOT to feed. No grain, pasture, red/brown salt blocks, apples, carrots, sugary treats, lucerne. You should plan to feed 2% of ideal bodyweight in soaked hay per day, divided into 3-4 feedings. Small mesh hay nets are a great way to make the hay rations last longer. If you choose to use the beet pulp, just rinse/soak/rinse it before feeding it- to reduce any excess iron which can be a bit high in beet pulp .Maxisoy is also another safe feed that you can use & either of these feeds can be used as a carrier for the emergency diet (ED) items of salt, vit E gelcaps with oil in them, ground flax and magnesium. All of these ED items are available at your local pharmacy/grocery store or stock feed place.
Glad to see that you have stopped feeding the lucerne, Sad to hear that this is still being recommended. Lucerne is known to make some horses more sensitive in their feet- so until she is stable- stop it.
If you are feeding the hay- soak it for 60 minutes in cold water or 30 minutes in hot water until you get the results.
The Gastro coat- Whilst not bad- it’s mainly– Psyllium Husk and in a very expensive form – for what reason are you giving this & what do expect the outcome to be.The reason I ask is that there may be a better/cheaper alternative.
Msm also has the potential to be a problem as it may pose an issue- from Dr Kellon “ The precaution with MSM is concern there is a **possibility** (unknown) intestinal bacteria may metabolize the sulfur to sulfate which could then bind susceptible minerals especially copper and selenium. However, if feeding selenium yeast and your copper level is comfortably above minimum after balancing (which it almost always is), it's not an issue.”
This is only one reason why it’s important to have the hay tested and balanced.
Now here is the hard bit- for now, she needs to be off grass. I find that this is one of the hardest concepts for people to get their head around- but there are ways to make it work, especially if you have a herd situation. Here is a post from Jaini that sums it up so nicely https://ecir.groups.io/g/main/message/164970?p=Created,,%22how+can+my+horse%22,20,2,0,2713185
I understand the weather patterns that have been happening, but even the driest paddock could be an issue. Sugar is stored in the roots- so whilst the tops make be drying off- the roots have gone into survival mode and are storing all the goodies. A grazing muzzle might be an option as it’s imperative that she gets some movement if she is sound enough- I’m a bit fussy about having muzzles on hot days and I know that SA can hot, so that’s your judgement call. Just make sure she can eat and drink through it.
Consider alternative pain reliving medication to what you are doing now- if that is why you are using white willow bark/tumeric/clivers/hawthorn berry/
Those ingredients were recommended to me about seven years ago before I found this list and managed to simplify things. For my boys I had great success with Jiagoulan,
This may help your situation: Have a look at this file:
Trim: A proper trim is toes backed and heels lowered so that the hoof capsule closely hugs and supports the internal structures of the foot. Though important for all horses, it's essential for an IR and/or PPID horse to have a proper trim in place since they are at increased risk for laminitis. Look on the following pages of our website for more information about a proper trim.
You are welcome to post hoof pictures and any radiographs you might have so that our hoof guru can to look in see if you have an optimal trim in place. Here's a site that explains how to take good hoof photos: http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html
It’s great that you are both attentive with her hoof care & are padding & booting her. It may still be a good idea to send in the Xrays & hoof photo’s so we can ensure that you are doing everything you can. I know it can sometimes be a bit awkward when dealing with hoof care professionals that are already doing a great job, but my thought on this that it doesn’t hurt to have a fresh set of eyes to join in the discussion. We all learn from each other.
Exercise: The best IR buster there is, but only if the horse is comfortable and non-laminitic. If there has been laminitis, we recommend no riding or exercising in tight circles until at least 1/2-2/3 of the hoof damaged by laminitis has grown out (at least 6-12 months, sometimes longer). Also recommend the use of boots and pads as needed for comfort vs shoes/appliances as frequent realigning trims will be needed, which is difficult to do if there are shoes. We also recommend using NSAIDs sparingly as they interfere with healing and can allow a horse to do more than its fragile feet are ready to handle.
That highlights the main points of our philosophy. There is tons of information on our website, in the files and archived messages.
http://ecirhorse.org/ also has a lot of great information.
Don't hesitate to ask any further questions that you have!
Australia Aug 07
ECIR Mod/Primary Response