Re: Smaller manure balls

5 Pine Ranch

Do the manure balls have enough moisture? If you squish them with the
toe of your boot, do you see moisture squeezed out of the *niblet* (as
my daughter calls them). Just make sure he is hydrated enough - how
much water & salt?


Re: Chasteberry

5 Pine Ranch

JGHIRETIRE@... wrote:
He just flat said no.? He told me the Glucose test cost over $200 and
didn't do one.

Don't throw the vet out yet. He's likely talking about
Euglycaemic hyperinsulinaemic clamp technique" or the "insulin-
modified frequently sampled intravenous glucose tolerance test" and
yes, it would be costly & time consuming too. But it's a valid test
that he obviously has atleast some level of awareness or knowledge of.
Can you get an insulin test atleast to start?


Re: Chasteberry/vitex

5 Pine Ranch

----- Original Message -----
From: christipony1


Where is the best place to purchase pergolide these days?

Try these - both used extensively by list members.

Or contact Ian here



Re: Chasteberry/vitex

christipony1 <christiwey@...>


Where is the best place to purchase pergolide these days?

I was purchasing it back in 2003 & 2004 through Island Pharmacy. I used
to get the apple flavored apple scented powder at 2 months for $130.

We took Savyy off of it when Dr Kellon & Robin S helped my vet & I
learn it was IR, not cushings.


Re: Fire Victim

Carlynne Allbee

Yes, I meant Nancy in Ramona, not Linda. My apologies.


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Re: Fire Victim

Carlynne Allbee

This is Carlynne....I own Sam, who is Belle's father...Belle is Eileens black/white mare that had a mini pinto mule daughter by one of your jacks (love to keep track of her). So sorry to hear about your ranch. I have a bunch of small halters...Can you use them? Anything else you need? No promises but I may be able to get some other equipment for all sizes of equines.

Carlynne Allbee
in Lakeside/El Cajon area

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Re: Is This Alright For A Cushings or IR Horse?


--- In EquineCushings@..., "Janet" <cedarcroft@...>

.....a product called Ardren/FX for her possibly Cushings or IR
Who makes it,Janet? I Googled it,to no avail.
Wouldn't it be better to have a diagnosis before putting the
an unknown product? Is she in a position to do that?

Hi Lorna,

I found it. It hadn't been spelled properly. It's Adren FX. Here
is the link

Thanks to everyone who responded. I'm sending her info.


Re: collection tubes-got any?


I need PLASTIC red-topped tubes for the iron profile to send to KSU.
My vet gave me glass, but the KSU site specifically states "no glass
tubes." Why does everything seem so hard????????????????sometimes..
Check with your small animal vet - they should have plastic transport
tubes (do offer to pay for the tubes).

Patti K
Vail, AZ

Re: Problems with Hind End - Need some help

Abby Nemec

calpiner wrote:

Most concerning is that his hind end has gotten much worse. He's very stiff, and barely lifts his back feet when he walks. We got him off the leaves on Sat, and he is slightly better now.
My questions:
Could a large spike in sugar from the leaves have caused or contributed to the problem with his back end?

Could the problem be due to 5 years of problems with his front feet?
In part, yes.

Would pads on the back feet help?
Probably not. Whatever you can do to make him more comfortable in front may help - have you tried icing his front feet?

Any advice for what I should evaluate next?
With the history of winter laminitis, you might try the jiaogulan/AAKG combo to help with circulation. I think there's info on it in the files.

-Abby B

Abby Bloxsom

Equicast for laminitis/founder

Abby Nemec

Okay, gang, it's time to fess up.

I've been working with hoof casts for just over a year now, and I've been REALLY happy with the results. I've waited to post about them til I was sure I had a "laminitis protocol" that was working reliably.

So I do.

I also am going to be CRAZY busy for the next couple weeks BUT since the subject has come up tonight I will say that anyone can write me privately with questions about the approach I'm using and I will do my best to answer.

I'm also going to put a separate folder in my inbox for cast questions and will promise to get back to you as soon as I can without losing you (because I will have you safely stowed in the special folder).

You can also write Mandy Woods who may or may not have time to write back, because she might be out trimming & casting Asher. He's been wearing casts since spring, and has finally started a gradual upward climb after a LONG struggle with severe rotation.

Check out the equicast site at and I will tell you that right now my favorite approach for a sore, laminitic or rotated horse is to put on a reverse shoe with the breakover point below the tip of P3, and cast it in place. Works like a charm, and really seems to provide immediate relief if the trim is right (even if it's not quite right but you're working towards that goal, it can help - but the trim has to be good).

Hoof casts may or may not help with abscessing. I've seen it go both ways.

Happy browsing!


Abby Bloxsom

Re: Dr. Kellon and Nutritional Experts


He's back to work,
or should be only I have another set back.

Memfis has soft feet - he is "prone" to quarter
cracks, he has shoes and pads on the front and
barefoot at the back.
Hi Sarah ~

How long has he been on the TC Safe Starch forage? A month?
It takes 6-8 months or more to grow out a new hoof capsule.
If you've got him totally on the TC feed now, it is balanced and you
shouldn't need anything else with it. If the TC feed is only part of
his diet (and he's still getting untested hay with it)then a smaller
dose of Farrier's Formula (proportional to the percent of hay in his
total ration) would be appropriate. i.e. - if he's getting half hay,
half TCSS, then a half dose of Farrier's Formula - 3oz (although more
won't hurt him).

Meanwhile, I'd follow Abby's advice concerning hoof care and not be in
a rush to ride - exercise and movement, yes, but not real "rider weight-
bearing work" until he's had a chance to grow new feet. Get your
farrier on board with Abby's ideas to stabilize his feet and have your
farrier show you what good hoof growth by the coronet looks like - when
it's all the way to the ground he'll likely be ready to ride.

Patti K
Vail AZ

Re: Fire Victim

Valeree Smith


I'm so sorry for your loss. The devastation caused by these fires has been tremendous (understatement, I know.)

I'm up in Los Angeles. Please let me know if there's anything I can do or help you with.

Valeree (shumist 'at' msn 'dot' com)

Problems with Hind End - Need some help

calpiner <calpiner@...>

I need some help. Wizard, my 19 yr old TWH (IR), was doing much
better until a few weeks ago. My farrier noticed that he was
slightly off in his back end 3 weeks ago. He has foundered severely
in both front feet several times over the last few years. First
founder was in summer 2002, most severe in Feb 2003, most recent was
Feb 2007.

For the first time in years, he was drinking/peeing normally and the
fat pockets above his eyes were gone! Then the leaves started to
fall, he ate them like crazy, and he started drinking / peeing like
crazy (again) and the fat pockets above his eyes are back.

Most concerning is that his hind end has gotten much worse. He's
very stiff, and barely lifts his back feet when he walks. We got him
off the leaves on Sat, and he is slightly better now.

My questions:

Could a large spike in sugar from the leaves have caused or
contributed to the problem with his back end?

Could the problem be due to 5 years of problems with his front feet?

Would pads on the back feet help?

Any advice for what I should evaluate next?

Thanks for the help.

Carol, Mac, Abby and Wizard

Smaller manure balls

Bonnie Hellevig

I have not seen this posted before, and thought I'd see what you folks think. I have had my
horse Isaac on a tight diet for IR/Cushings and he is improving. His minerals were balanced
as of about a month ago. Within this last month, I have noticed that his manure balls are
smaller than I have ever seen in him. I have no idea what to make of this, but tend to think
that his healthier diet means a healthier horse and digestive system. He is also on APF and

Anyone else ever notice this before?
Bonnie & Isaac
San Francisco

Re: Dr. Kellon and Nutritional Experts

Sandra Su

Posted by: "Sarah Bancroft" <mailto:sarahbancroft@...?Subject=
<> sarahbancroft

Thu Nov 1, 2007 6:54 pm (PST)

My question is - is there something IR friendly that I should be
giving my boy to help him improve the
integrity of the hoof wall.
Try Miracle Hoof Oil. You paint it on the hoof, and I really
do think it makes it stronger. My farrier told me to use it. Since
you paint it on, it's not going to interfere with his diet. Might
help, can't hurt. There's a site on the Internet telling about it,
and you can get info there for ordering it. This is a product Mike
Wildenstein, the farrier at Cornell Univ., recommends. My farrier was
a student of his, and I think his work is a Mike Wildenstein clone,
but he'll come to the barn to do Penny. He costs more, but I think
he's worth every penny.

Sandy Su

Re: hay probe

Sandra Su

Posted by: "jvining@..."
<mailto:jvining@...?Subject= Re%3A%20hay%20probe>
jvining@... <>

Thu Nov 1, 2007 5:56 pm (PST)
My very creative husband went to the hardware store and bought a new
piece of steel pipe, cut the teeth and bent the end other end so it
would fit over a flat 1" drill bit and voila! My hay has alredy been
sent and I should hear shortly.
Wow! Your husband is a keeper. You just saved about $100 on a
hay probe. Others have tried to make them w/o much success. Maybe you
should post detailed instructions for other do-it-yourselfers?

Sandy Su

Re: SPAM-LOW: feeding suggestions for a chron

Sandra Su

Posted by: "Angela Lang" <mailto:angela@...?Subject=
<> corvidlover

Thu Nov 1, 2007 1:51 pm (PST)
I board at a facility and they will only do so much. I make sure I
am the one to give his meds every day just cause there are too many
variables it seems when you board your horse.
I board, too, and what I do for Penny's supplements is to
make up baggies, one for each feeding, and then all the barn owner
has to do is dump in the supplement/meds mix when she feeds Penny. If
you think they might not soak the beet pulp enough or
rinse/soak/rinse it, I think you can measure out a few days' worth,
do it yourself, and put it in bags or containers, if the barn has a
refrigerator and can store it. If you want to find out more -- how
long it keeps, etc., I read it in past messages for when people were
going to be away and had someone else feeding their horses.
If everything's measured out for them, and all they have to
do is take a bag of beet pulp out of the fridge and dump in a bag of
supplements at each feeding, they probably can get it right.

Sandy Su

Re: Chasteberry

Sandra Su

Posted by: "JGHIRETIRE@..." <mailto:JGHIRETIRE@...?Subject=
Re%3A%20Chasteberry> JGHIRETIRE@...
<> jghiretire

Thu Nov 1, 2007 1:46 pm (PST)
He did not test for Cushings nor did he check for Insulin
Resistance....He told me the Glucose test cost over $200 and didn't
do one.
That price is pretty steep. I had a whole slew of tests, and
they came to just a bit more. I think you should find another,
cheaper vet. I think, if you search past messages for the costs of
tests, some of us posted how much we paid at the time. I think I did.
That would be last spring -- May? June?

Sandy Su

Re: Fire Victim



Is there anything we can do to help?

Kim & CG in NC

Re: Fire Victim

goddess03259 <threecatfarm@...>


I've changed your email delivery to digest format. You should get two or three digests per
day. If that is still too much I can change your delivery to "No Mail". Send an email to me
privately at threecatfarm "at' firstbridge "dot" net if you'd like me to do that.

Please let us know how you are doing. Our thoughts are with you.

Nancy C and Beau and Gabe in NH

--- In EquineCushings@..., SpotsNStripesRch@... wrote:

Hi:? This is Nancy Nunke with Spots 'N Stripes Ranch, in Ramona, CA...I've lost my ranch in
the fire and I don't have anything with my passwords or other internet 'stuff', so please pass
this on to someone who could have my Cushings emails come to me in a single email instead
of individual emails

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