Date   

Re: Problems with Hind End - Need some help

Saucier Kathy
 

Carol,
After trying Abby's advice and getting his diet tight there might be some things to help his back end.
I have walkers too and my C's/IR horse Magic had very low laminitis in the past that was so slight that we didn't really recognize it as front end/feet. The back end would start to have problems, stiffness, not moving and striding well. When the front hurt, they move their weight to the back end and it eventually gets tight, sore or even pull things. For a long time I denied he had any problems in the front hooves. Got to tackle that first.
And I too have been through the falling leaves problem recently and had to move him to a different dry lot that has no trees to drop leaves into.

Anyway, work the diet, follow Abby's ideas then look into having either a chiropractor look at him or at least have some "good" massage work done. I actually have a Rolfer who works on people and horses in addition to a good equine massage person.
He probably also needs some joint help. HA, injections, or whatever is safe.
Kathy Saucier, Magic (IR & C's, almost 24 yr old) and Grayson
North Texas

5a. Problems with Hind End - Need some help
Posted by: "calpiner" calpiner@... calpiner
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 8:20 pm ((PDT))


Re: testing -why so many labs?

J Amick
 

No, Kansas STate is the only place that can do the iron profiles.
Think it has to do with the machines etc. Cost alot. Cornell does
many other processes for blood, but not that one. As far as I know,
KSU is THE only one available currently.
Judy-PA


Linda wrote:

OK, so I need an iron panel & insulin/glucose (and in a few weeks,
another ACTH) Why does one have to go to KSU and the other to Cornell?
Isn't there one place that can do it all??





Re: What do i need to do to see improvement?

J Amick
 

Do you have any boots on him to protect that foot from the ground?
Perhaps you should look into this. Try the diaper boot first to see if
he responds to the additional softness.

I was in the same boat for about 6-7 months, then had additional xrays
taken recently and found
that my gelding has grown an "elf" pointed tip at the end of his
coffin bone. This
came from last year's penetration of the coffin bones on both front.
BOTH
fronts have this. In speaking with Dr. K, and a few other specialists
the tip is being "remodeled", and he needs the soft ride boots. This
horse can NEVER be barefoot, is exactly what I was told by a podiatrist
vet, and I am now looking into glue on shoes. Since I put the
Soft ride boots on him,
he is now gaiting up a storm in the pasture. He has had NO shoes on
since January.

Just some food for thought.
Judy-PA




mel wrote:

My horse is still no better.

Hes been wrong a year now. hes been barefoot since march. since about
may hes been the same soundness wise. he toe flicks, gets sore just
before trimming if left too long (currently going 3 weeks) and sore
after trimming for a day or so. his last laminitis attack was january.



Re: Jiaogulan - silly question

Deb Platt
 

The mare is out in the dry lot and we play a game - I scratch and massage her - then I leave she follows - if she wants to. Then I stop and massage her some more. Not a lot, but our regular vet encourages her to get out and move some. Our other vet that does her accupunture feels she is not very lame - but we have had this mare for 10 years and know when she is even slightly off.



Sandra Su <ssu@...> wrote:
>Posted by: "Deb Platt" <mailto:da_platt@...?Subject=
Re%3AJiaogulan%20-%20silly%20question> da_platt@...
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/da_platt> da_platt

Thu Nov 1, 2007 5:46 am (PST)
... she is still having problems lame on left front. ... Excercised every day.
Exercised how? If she's lame, I think you don't want to force
her to exercise more than she wants to on her own. The hoof gurus can
say more about this.
--

Sandy Su
ssu@...


Re: Chasteberry

rita@...
 

Make sure that you let him know it's NOT the glucose tolerance test (or
glucose challenge as some of the old school know it as). You just need
the glucose value from the standard chemistry panel!! :)
More might understand that. It shouldn't be more than $20 to run that
one test out of a chemistry panel.
They can still do the insulin from the same blood draw as well, but make
sure you have it in the correct tube for collection, etc.

good luck!
Rita
Indiana

JGHIRETIRE@... wrote:
He just flat said no.? He told me the Glucose test cost over $200 and
didn't do one.


Re: Is This Alright For A Cushings or IR Horse?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD <drkellon@...>
 

The Chasteberry at least might help with an early Cushings *if* the
dose is correct. If it's not, could make things worse. It's a
dopaminergic effect that helps though, not the phytoestrogens.
Phytoestrogen effects in Cushings are basically unknown so can't
comment on the other two sources of these. The chromium and Momordica
are to lower blood sugar. They do not improve insulin sensitivity and
aren't indicated unless your horse is frankly diabetic (elevated blood
sugar), in which case you probably ought to be thinking pergolide
anyway.

Eleanor


Re: Smaller manure balls

J Amick
 

Oh yes, same thing with my gelding. He wears a muzzle (small hole)
outside during the day,
and is fed and kept inside at night. If muzzled, your boy is only
taking in about 1/4 the
total amount that he previously ingested, by wearing that
muzzle. If no muzzle is being
worn, then it has to do with the decreasing of the vittles, and the
type that you are
feeding. Nothing to be worried about.
Judy-PA


bh94117 wrote:

Within this last month, I have noticed that his manure balls are
smaller than I have ever seen in him. I have no idea what to make of
this, but tend to think
that his healthier diet means a healthier horse and digestive system.
He is also on APF and
spirulina.

Anyone else ever notice this before?
Bonnie & Isaac
San Francisco



------------------------------------------------------------------------




Re: Problems with Hind End - Need some help

Eleanor Kellon, VMD <drkellon@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "calpiner" <calpiner@...> wrote:


My questions:

Could a large spike in sugar from the leaves have caused or
contributed to the problem with his back end?

Could the problem be due to 5 years of problems with his front feet?

Would pads on the back feet help?

Any advice for what I should evaluate next?
There's a very good chance that eating the leaves exacerbated his IR
again and what you are seeing is related to that. He's either
weightshifting to protect sore front feet or all four are hurting him,
front worse. Getting him back on a safe diet is an important first
step but you really should consider having all four feet X-rayed as
well. That will tell you what you need to do with his feet. Could you
post some photos? Body shots and close ups of the feet.

Eleanor


Have I calculated Correctly?

Sharon Stokesbary <slstokes@...>
 

Hi, I was wondering if anyone has time to check my work and to answer
a few questions. I uploaded my hay analysis and spreadsheet to
'Sharon's Hay'. I am currently using EquiPride and tried to balance
while using that product but it seemed easier to just add a few of the
minerls and drop EquiPride.

I came up with:
7g magnesium
22g salt
565 mg Zinc (I used the hand worksheet to come up with zinc and copper
amts)
186 mg copper
1800 IU Vit E

Questions:
1. I have neg manganese. Is that OK or do I need to do more to balance?

2. Can I use Redmond salt for the Na requirement? My horses currently
have it free choice but I will add it directly to the feed as well.

3. I was reading other posts and read mention of getting mag-ox from
feed store. How does this compare to Uckele's? Is there a quality
difference?

4. What is the best (and easiest) way to get the Vit E? Are Uckele's
coconut products a good source of E (I don't see analysis on their site)?

5. Did I miss anything in my spreadsheet?

Thanks much to anyone who can help!

Sharon


Re: Chasteberry

Sue
 

In a message dated 11/2/2007 5:49:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rita@bg-sc.
com writes:




Make sure that you let him know it's NOT the glucose tolerance test (or
glucose challenge as some of the old school know it as). You just need
the glucose value from the standard chemistry panel!! :)
More might understand that. It shouldn't be more than $20 to run that
one test out of a chemistry panel.
They can still do the insulin from the same blood draw as well, but make
sure you have it in the correct tube for collection, etc.

good luck!
Rita
Indiana






Thanks Rita - that's certainly worth a shot!!

Sue
Washington



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Chasteberry

Sue
 

In a message dated 11/1/2007 10:25:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
fivepineranch@... writes:




JGHIRETIRE@.JGHIRETIR
He just flat said no.? He told me the Glucose test cost over $200 and
didn't do one.

Don't throw the vet out yet. He's likely talking about
Euglycaemic hyperinsulinaemic clamp technique" or the "insulin-
modified frequently sampled intravenous glucose tolerance test" and
yes, it would be costly & time consuming too. But it's a valid test
that he obviously has atleast some level of awareness or knowledge of.
Can you get an insulin test atleast to start?







I don't really see why I couldn't - even if I have to get another vet - I
feel that when I talk to him I'm being horrible for not just putting her down -
it's sort of turned me off wanting to even talk to him.

Thanks

Sue



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: collection tubes-got any?

lindarollins38@...
 

Rita has sent me a bunch! Yaaaaaa Rita!



http://www.sportshorses.com/cases/rollinslinda.Peanut.htm


Beet pulp and supplements?

laveen2923 <laveen2923@...>
 

Hi all,
do any of you have experience feeding beet pulp in conjunction w/
bermuda hay... how does that effect the supplements? I've been using
the Arizona Regional Mix (which is tailered to our Az bermuda hay) but
wondered if I'm messing up the balance w/ a relatively high percentage
of beet pulp (about 40%).
The reason I've increased the BP ratio is that it seems to keep my
older gelding's tummy happy.
Is this too off-topic?
If so, sorry,
Krista
Manchado, and Dulce


Re: People Experienced with Founder Cases PLEASE Respond. I'm Desperate!!

aaussie_gal <tarnie_b@...>
 

Karen, don't forget deluxe equine slippers ... rubber pads fit in
there. They have leather soles and cordura uppers and can be worn
for extended periods (unlike Old Macs, Boas, etc.) Best price I
found was from www.bluegrass-equine.com

A disposable diaper can be wrapped round the pad (inside out) and
this will dry the sole if you feel the foot is getting funky.

I was always told not to have the bedding too deep when I padded the
feet.

I used LaminaSaver (@ double dose) and InflammaSaver and Ameera
continued to worsen throughout. The missing piece in her puzzle was
TRIM.

Unless I'm mistaken, LaminaSaver, InflammaSaver and the J-Herb should
not be given while the horse is on Bute.

Hang in there.

Tarn


Re: Problems with Hind End - Need some help

Tarn Beardsley <tarnie_b@...>
 

Slight soreness can manifest as general stiffness. When the front feet are sore it places a much greater strain on the hind end - muscles and back feet. Massage can help tight/sore muscles.
Tarn

Most concerning is that his hind end has gotten much worse. He's very stiff, and barely lifts his back feet when he >walks. We got him off the leaves on Sat, and he is slightly better now.


Re: Smaller manure balls

5 Pine Ranch
 

Do the manure balls have enough moisture? If you squish them with the
toe of your boot, do you see moisture squeezed out of the *niblet* (as
my daughter calls them). Just make sure he is hydrated enough - how
much water & salt?

Amberlee


Re: Chasteberry

5 Pine Ranch
 

JGHIRETIRE@... wrote:
He just flat said no.? He told me the Glucose test cost over $200 and
didn't do one.

Don't throw the vet out yet. He's likely talking about
Euglycaemic hyperinsulinaemic clamp technique" or the "insulin-
modified frequently sampled intravenous glucose tolerance test" and
yes, it would be costly & time consuming too. But it's a valid test
that he obviously has atleast some level of awareness or knowledge of.
Can you get an insulin test atleast to start?

Amberlee


Re: Chasteberry/vitex

5 Pine Ranch
 

----- Original Message -----
From: christipony1

Amberlee

Where is the best place to purchase pergolide these days?

Try these - both used extensively by list members.

http://www.pethealthpharmacy.com/

Or contact Ian here

http://www.vetpetsolutions.com/contact/

Amberlee


.


Re: Chasteberry/vitex

christipony1 <christiwey@...>
 

Amberlee

Where is the best place to purchase pergolide these days?

I was purchasing it back in 2003 & 2004 through Island Pharmacy. I used
to get the apple flavored apple scented powder at 2 months for $130.

We took Savyy off of it when Dr Kellon & Robin S helped my vet & I
learn it was IR, not cushings.

Christi


Re: Fire Victim

Carlynne Allbee
 

Yes, I meant Nancy in Ramona, not Linda. My apologies.

Carlynne

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