Date   

Jioagulan and Isoxuprene

Kelly Hill
 

Hello everyone! I am new and originally came here in
Oct. due to my suspected Cushings 22yr old gelding
Squirt but I have found so many things here that I
think can help my other horses that my head is
spinning. (I have Squirt's blood work (he is Cushings)
and the hay is off being tested. He is on the
emergency diet and Pergoglide is on order. I will
update his information soon.)

I am actually inquiring about my 19 yr old Poppin. He
came to me w/ a navicular cyst in one hoof and has
been on 1/2-1gm bute daily for at least 2.5 years.
(EGADS!) I tried devil's claw, yucca, etc and have not
noticed a difference. He has been struggling w/ on and
off bouts of White Line disease for the past year. We
get it under control and then it flares again. I did
xrays and his heel was sinking in his "good foot". He
has sensitive skin (everything must be padded), does
not like to be touched (brushing is horse abuse) and
now he is blowing abcesses in both front feet. He also
tends to get a fungussy/rain rot type affliction on
his body that seems to coincide w/ the white line
flare ups. My farrier and I agree that there might be
some immune system issues but my vet doesn't think so.
His coat is normal. Should this horse have a blood
test?

I have got to get this horse off bute but he stands w/
both front feet out. The last trim we had abcesses but
saw healthy white line tissue. He is on Isoxsuprene
for the cyst. After reading this list I think I should
try Jioagulan and APF and get off the bute and get him
on the BP/balanced diet. My last question is can he be
on Isoxsuprene and Jioagulan at the same time?? Any
other recommendations?

Sorry this is so long but thanks to you all I have
hope for my boys!

Kelly and Squirt (Poppin, too)
Kentucky

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Re: Fire Victim

amyt001 <aet001@...>
 

I'm in PA but I might have extra general horse stuff, please let us
know if you need anything. I can mail things to you, depending on
sizes...
Amy & Misty in PA
(& Herbie & Dylan)

--- In EquineCushings@..., SpotsNStripesRch@... wrote:

Hi:? This is Nancy Nunke with Spots 'N Stripes Ranch, in Ramona,
CA...I've lost my ranch in the fire and I don't have anything with my
passwords or other internet 'stuff', so please pass this on to
someone who could have my Cushings emails come to me in a single
email instead of individual emails...they are taking up all my
available email space and I can only get to my emails on a friend's
computer a couple of times a week, and important emails are being
bounced back because my email box is full...so please, please,
someone change my individual Cushings emails to a single email on
yahoo....thank you, thank you, thank you...

Nancy Nunke
635 Old Julian Highway
Ramona, CA 92065

760-898-3927

http://www.spotsnstripes.com



-----Original Message-----


Is there a file with Chaste Tree Berry information? I don't see one...

kksmalley
 

Hello All,

I may just be missing it but I was looking for a file with information
on chaste tree berries. I've been searching the messages and am trying
to piece together the bits and pieces of info I'm finding but wanted
to make sure I'm not missing important data in a specific place.

I think I recently read it may be detrimental to the horse in some
cases and since I have my mare on it I'm worried about if I really
should and if so, what the right dose would be.

She's about a 1000 lbs and I'm giving a heaping teaspoon twice a day.

Thanks you!

Kris & Scarlet


Re: Fire Victim

titancowgirl
 

Dear Nancy, If I can help in some way, with needed horse supplies please
let me know. I'll be glad to mail out to you. Good luck and God bless! ~Grace
and Thor



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Re: Problems with Hind End - Need some help

jroep03
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Gary & Kathy Saucier"
<gksaucier@...> wrote:
I have walkers too and my C's/IR horse Magic had very low laminitis
in the past that was so slight that we didn't really recognize it as
front end/feet. The back end would start to have problems, stiffness,
not moving and striding well. When the front hurt, they move their
weight to the back end and it eventually gets tight, sore or even pull
things. For a long time I denied he had any problems in the front
hooves. >

Oh boy, this is sounding quite familiar... Josie's a TWH as well and
there's a noticeable difference in her overstride, or lack thereof (as
TWH owners watch religiously) when she's under the influence of
improper diet. I see her dumping her weight on the front end more
when she's sore than shifting to the back end. Soon as her diet's
right, she'll use her hind end for breaking action (downward canter
transitions). When she's sore, she throws her weight onto her front
end during downward transitions.
Because Josie gets so muscle sore/intense spasms, I've assumed she's
not foot sore. I check her crest & hooves daily for warmth but so
far, they're always a normal temp, pulses normal. Crest changes often
tho but her minerals aren't balanced yet. I hope that I haven't ever
misread those signs. Her shoulders & neck get so tight that she
couldn't do anything more than drag her toes along anyhow. Soon as
her diet's right, she's got plenty of animation,overstride + great
head shake. Getting her sugar & starch in an acceptable range goes a
lot farther than massage. She's gotten so sore that she grinds her
teeth & moves away when I reach out to touch her neck. I do massage
her often to try to iron out the last of the muscle spasms but she's
not ready for deep tissue massage yet.

Anyway, work the diet, follow Abby's ideas then look into having
either a chiropractor look at him or at least have some "good" massage
work done.

Chiropractic adjustments help a lot. Josie's neck & croup get out of
alignment from the muscle spasms, which have literally tipped her
atlas to one side. The chiro was very surprised it wasn't from
pulling back when tied (she's never done that).

He probably also needs some joint help. HA, injections, or whatever
is safe.

I've had good results with HA as well. Again, the best results with
the low S/S diet.

Julie & Josie


Re: Beet pulp and supplements?

5 Pine Ranch
 

Not off topic and yes, it will change your dietary needs. Do you have a hay analysis?

Amberlee
www.fivepineranch.com
Please Visit Our Site!


Re: Test Results for Foxy

Barbara <b.dayton@...>
 

Correction on reference range for

Post Dexamethasone Result 1.7 Reference Range <1 ug/dL Flag H



--- In EquineCushings@..., "Barbara" <b.dayton@...>
wrote:

I finally recieved a copy of Foxys test results. I am confused
about
the results. I tried comparing the results to others posted but
her
numbers are so much different. Could someone please tell me what
they
mean?

Lab Used: IDEXX Laboratories

Pre Dexamethasone Result 3.0 Reference Range 1-3 ug/dL Flag (blank)
Post Dexamethasone Result 1.7 Reference Range 1-3 ug/dL Flag H

Insulin Result 15 Ref Range 29-179 pmol/L Flag L
Glucose Result 4.3 Ref Range 4.2-6.4 mmol/L Flag (blank)
Insulin:Glucose Ratio Result 3
T4 Result 1.4 Ref Range 0.9-2.8 ug/dL Flag (blank)

THANKS!
Barbara


Re: Hay analysis

Janet Gerl
 

Sandy wrote:
You are very lucky, if your supplements match your hay. Most
of us need a custom mix, since hays can vary so much in the amounts
of each mineral. Have you had your hay tested and found that the
supplement you use matches that?

Sandy . . . I'm pretty new here, so in light of that, let me just say I
can't imagine mixing your own supplements ingredient by ingredient.
Surely you are purchasing some pre-packaged supplements to make up your
entire mix to match your hay.
I'm under the impression that we are just trying to stay within "safe"
acceptable ranges. So I'm guessing that Dr. Kellon looked at my hay
results and the PDFs I sent her of my supplement labels and concluded
that I'm within the safe ranges and all is well.

In answer to your last question, yes I have had my hay tested and after
sending that information along with PDFs of my supplements, Dr. Kellon
said it looks okay. She just commented that he didn't need any more
iron in his diet. So based on that, I asked if anyone knew of
pre-packaged supplements without iron. An overall vitamin - mineral mix
without iron. And someone did respond with what I see to be an
acceptable supplement without iron that I am considering switching to.

Janet


Test Results for Foxy

Barbara <b.dayton@...>
 

I finally recieved a copy of Foxys test results. I am confused about
the results. I tried comparing the results to others posted but her
numbers are so much different. Could someone please tell me what they
mean?

Lab Used: IDEXX Laboratories

Pre Dexamethasone Result 3.0 Reference Range 1-3 ug/dL Flag (blank)
Post Dexamethasone Result 1.7 Reference Range 1-3 ug/dL Flag H

Insulin Result 15 Ref Range 29-179 pmol/L Flag L
Glucose Result 4.3 Ref Range 4.2-6.4 mmol/L Flag (blank)
Insulin:Glucose Ratio Result 3
T4 Result 1.4 Ref Range 0.9-2.8 ug/dL Flag (blank)

THANKS!
Barbara


Re: Problems with Hind End - Need some help

Saucier Kathy
 

Carol,
After trying Abby's advice and getting his diet tight there might be some things to help his back end.
I have walkers too and my C's/IR horse Magic had very low laminitis in the past that was so slight that we didn't really recognize it as front end/feet. The back end would start to have problems, stiffness, not moving and striding well. When the front hurt, they move their weight to the back end and it eventually gets tight, sore or even pull things. For a long time I denied he had any problems in the front hooves. Got to tackle that first.
And I too have been through the falling leaves problem recently and had to move him to a different dry lot that has no trees to drop leaves into.

Anyway, work the diet, follow Abby's ideas then look into having either a chiropractor look at him or at least have some "good" massage work done. I actually have a Rolfer who works on people and horses in addition to a good equine massage person.
He probably also needs some joint help. HA, injections, or whatever is safe.
Kathy Saucier, Magic (IR & C's, almost 24 yr old) and Grayson
North Texas

5a. Problems with Hind End - Need some help
Posted by: "calpiner" calpiner@... calpiner
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 8:20 pm ((PDT))


Re: testing -why so many labs?

J Amick
 

No, Kansas STate is the only place that can do the iron profiles.
Think it has to do with the machines etc. Cost alot. Cornell does
many other processes for blood, but not that one. As far as I know,
KSU is THE only one available currently.
Judy-PA


Linda wrote:

OK, so I need an iron panel & insulin/glucose (and in a few weeks,
another ACTH) Why does one have to go to KSU and the other to Cornell?
Isn't there one place that can do it all??





Re: What do i need to do to see improvement?

J Amick
 

Do you have any boots on him to protect that foot from the ground?
Perhaps you should look into this. Try the diaper boot first to see if
he responds to the additional softness.

I was in the same boat for about 6-7 months, then had additional xrays
taken recently and found
that my gelding has grown an "elf" pointed tip at the end of his
coffin bone. This
came from last year's penetration of the coffin bones on both front.
BOTH
fronts have this. In speaking with Dr. K, and a few other specialists
the tip is being "remodeled", and he needs the soft ride boots. This
horse can NEVER be barefoot, is exactly what I was told by a podiatrist
vet, and I am now looking into glue on shoes. Since I put the
Soft ride boots on him,
he is now gaiting up a storm in the pasture. He has had NO shoes on
since January.

Just some food for thought.
Judy-PA




mel wrote:

My horse is still no better.

Hes been wrong a year now. hes been barefoot since march. since about
may hes been the same soundness wise. he toe flicks, gets sore just
before trimming if left too long (currently going 3 weeks) and sore
after trimming for a day or so. his last laminitis attack was january.



Re: Jiaogulan - silly question

Deb Platt
 

The mare is out in the dry lot and we play a game - I scratch and massage her - then I leave she follows - if she wants to. Then I stop and massage her some more. Not a lot, but our regular vet encourages her to get out and move some. Our other vet that does her accupunture feels she is not very lame - but we have had this mare for 10 years and know when she is even slightly off.



Sandra Su <ssu@...> wrote:
>Posted by: "Deb Platt" <mailto:da_platt@...?Subject=
Re%3AJiaogulan%20-%20silly%20question> da_platt@...
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/da_platt> da_platt

Thu Nov 1, 2007 5:46 am (PST)
... she is still having problems lame on left front. ... Excercised every day.
Exercised how? If she's lame, I think you don't want to force
her to exercise more than she wants to on her own. The hoof gurus can
say more about this.
--

Sandy Su
ssu@...


Re: Chasteberry

rita@...
 

Make sure that you let him know it's NOT the glucose tolerance test (or
glucose challenge as some of the old school know it as). You just need
the glucose value from the standard chemistry panel!! :)
More might understand that. It shouldn't be more than $20 to run that
one test out of a chemistry panel.
They can still do the insulin from the same blood draw as well, but make
sure you have it in the correct tube for collection, etc.

good luck!
Rita
Indiana

JGHIRETIRE@... wrote:
He just flat said no.? He told me the Glucose test cost over $200 and
didn't do one.


Re: Is This Alright For A Cushings or IR Horse?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD <drkellon@...>
 

The Chasteberry at least might help with an early Cushings *if* the
dose is correct. If it's not, could make things worse. It's a
dopaminergic effect that helps though, not the phytoestrogens.
Phytoestrogen effects in Cushings are basically unknown so can't
comment on the other two sources of these. The chromium and Momordica
are to lower blood sugar. They do not improve insulin sensitivity and
aren't indicated unless your horse is frankly diabetic (elevated blood
sugar), in which case you probably ought to be thinking pergolide
anyway.

Eleanor


Re: Smaller manure balls

J Amick
 

Oh yes, same thing with my gelding. He wears a muzzle (small hole)
outside during the day,
and is fed and kept inside at night. If muzzled, your boy is only
taking in about 1/4 the
total amount that he previously ingested, by wearing that
muzzle. If no muzzle is being
worn, then it has to do with the decreasing of the vittles, and the
type that you are
feeding. Nothing to be worried about.
Judy-PA


bh94117 wrote:

Within this last month, I have noticed that his manure balls are
smaller than I have ever seen in him. I have no idea what to make of
this, but tend to think
that his healthier diet means a healthier horse and digestive system.
He is also on APF and
spirulina.

Anyone else ever notice this before?
Bonnie & Isaac
San Francisco



------------------------------------------------------------------------




Re: Problems with Hind End - Need some help

Eleanor Kellon, VMD <drkellon@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "calpiner" <calpiner@...> wrote:


My questions:

Could a large spike in sugar from the leaves have caused or
contributed to the problem with his back end?

Could the problem be due to 5 years of problems with his front feet?

Would pads on the back feet help?

Any advice for what I should evaluate next?
There's a very good chance that eating the leaves exacerbated his IR
again and what you are seeing is related to that. He's either
weightshifting to protect sore front feet or all four are hurting him,
front worse. Getting him back on a safe diet is an important first
step but you really should consider having all four feet X-rayed as
well. That will tell you what you need to do with his feet. Could you
post some photos? Body shots and close ups of the feet.

Eleanor


Have I calculated Correctly?

Sharon Stokesbary <slstokes@...>
 

Hi, I was wondering if anyone has time to check my work and to answer
a few questions. I uploaded my hay analysis and spreadsheet to
'Sharon's Hay'. I am currently using EquiPride and tried to balance
while using that product but it seemed easier to just add a few of the
minerls and drop EquiPride.

I came up with:
7g magnesium
22g salt
565 mg Zinc (I used the hand worksheet to come up with zinc and copper
amts)
186 mg copper
1800 IU Vit E

Questions:
1. I have neg manganese. Is that OK or do I need to do more to balance?

2. Can I use Redmond salt for the Na requirement? My horses currently
have it free choice but I will add it directly to the feed as well.

3. I was reading other posts and read mention of getting mag-ox from
feed store. How does this compare to Uckele's? Is there a quality
difference?

4. What is the best (and easiest) way to get the Vit E? Are Uckele's
coconut products a good source of E (I don't see analysis on their site)?

5. Did I miss anything in my spreadsheet?

Thanks much to anyone who can help!

Sharon


Re: Chasteberry

Sue
 

In a message dated 11/2/2007 5:49:33 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, rita@bg-sc.
com writes:




Make sure that you let him know it's NOT the glucose tolerance test (or
glucose challenge as some of the old school know it as). You just need
the glucose value from the standard chemistry panel!! :)
More might understand that. It shouldn't be more than $20 to run that
one test out of a chemistry panel.
They can still do the insulin from the same blood draw as well, but make
sure you have it in the correct tube for collection, etc.

good luck!
Rita
Indiana






Thanks Rita - that's certainly worth a shot!!

Sue
Washington



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Re: Chasteberry

Sue
 

In a message dated 11/1/2007 10:25:46 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
fivepineranch@... writes:




JGHIRETIRE@.JGHIRETIR
He just flat said no.? He told me the Glucose test cost over $200 and
didn't do one.

Don't throw the vet out yet. He's likely talking about
Euglycaemic hyperinsulinaemic clamp technique" or the "insulin-
modified frequently sampled intravenous glucose tolerance test" and
yes, it would be costly & time consuming too. But it's a valid test
that he obviously has atleast some level of awareness or knowledge of.
Can you get an insulin test atleast to start?







I don't really see why I couldn't - even if I have to get another vet - I
feel that when I talk to him I'm being horrible for not just putting her down -
it's sort of turned me off wanting to even talk to him.

Thanks

Sue



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