Date   

Mag Ox and Cocosoya

Sue <blwnkljmus@...>
 

I have two quick questions.

The Mag Ox that I ordered from Uckele is a very fine white powder, but
the 50lb bag I bought from the feed store is more granular and a grey
color (same 56%). Is there any real difference in these as far as
feeding?

Also, is there any additional benefit to feeding Cocosoya as opposed to
plain soybean oil (which is about half the price)?

Thanks!

Sue and Kramer


Re: Jioagulan and Isoxuprene

Deborah Gordon <debbggordon@...>
 

I can give you a recommendation for grain for your Cushings horse. Triple Crown Low Starch. I give a scoop to my 28 yr. old Morgan Gelding twice a day, morning and evening. It brought his weight up, and he looks and acts like a 6 yr old again. My vet is amazed. Even his coat lost it curls and he shed out beautifully during the spring and early summer. He is also given very dry grass hay. His treats are parsley and celery instead of the apple and carrots I give my other horses.

Several of the local boarders also use this grain (actually a rice bran) on their older horses successfully.

Kelly Hill <firegoldh@...> wrote:
Hello everyone! I am new and originally came here in
Oct. due to my suspected Cushings 22yr old gelding
Squirt but I have found so many things here that I
think can help my other horses that my head is
spinning. (I have Squirt's blood work (he is Cushings)
and the hay is off being tested. He is on the
emergency diet and Pergoglide is on order. I will
update his information soon.)

I am actually inquiring about my 19 yr old Poppin. He
came to me w/ a navicular cyst in one hoof and has
been on 1/2-1gm bute daily for at least 2.5 years.
(EGADS!) I tried devil's claw, yucca, etc and have not
noticed a difference. He has been struggling w/ on and
off bouts of White Line disease for the past year. We
get it under control and then it flares again. I did
xrays and his heel was sinking in his "good foot". He
has sensitive skin (everything must be padded), does
not like to be touched (brushing is horse abuse) and
now he is blowing abcesses in both front feet. He also
tends to get a fungussy/rain rot type affliction on
his body that seems to coincide w/ the white line
flare ups. My farrier and I agree that there might be
some immune system issues but my vet doesn't think so.
His coat is normal. Should this horse have a blood
test?

I have got to get this horse off bute but he stands w/
both front feet out. The last trim we had abcesses but
saw healthy white line tissue. He is on Isoxsuprene
for the cyst. After reading this list I think I should
try Jioagulan and APF and get off the bute and get him
on the BP/balanced diet. My last question is can he be
on Isoxsuprene and Jioagulan at the same time?? Any
other recommendations?

Sorry this is so long but thanks to you all I have
hope for my boys!

Kelly and Squirt (Poppin, too)
Kentucky

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com






Debb Gordon
debbggordon@...


Re: Beet pulp and supplements?

 

do any of you have experience feeding beet pulp in conjunction w/
bermuda hay... how does that effect the supplements? I've been using
the Arizona Regional Mix (which is tailered to our Az bermuda hay) but
wondered if I'm messing up the balance w/ a relatively high percentage
of beet pulp (about 40%).
The reason I've increased the BP ratio is that it seems to keep my
older gelding's tummy happy.
Hi Krista ~
With that much beet pulp, you should probably get both your beet pulp
and hay analyzed. I presume you're feeding 40% beet pulp according to
dry weight (before soaking) - so it might be something like 6lbs beet
pulp/10lbs hay? It's going to change the calcium/phosphorus balance and
probably increase the need for copper.
While I like (and use) the AZ Regional Mix, it won't "balance" a high
iron hay.
You might also want to see if you can get TC Safe Starch forage in your
area - its balanced to itself and, if it agrees with him, could be a
good option.

Patti K
Vail AZ


Re: Dr. Kellon and Nutritional Experts

cjspackman
 

You might try cornucrescine made by Carr & Day & Martin. Its a product from
the UK sold by several retailers - google it. We used it all the time when
I was a kid. You massage it into the coronet band and it increases hoof
growth. When a previous horse of mine foundered the vet was amazed at the
speed the hoof re-grew and the quality. It can also be used on areas where
hair has been rubbed off like elbows and hocks. It causes the hair to
regrow and to grow back in the correct color rather than white. Possibly
useful for the horses who are off their feet and may be getting "bed
sores". Also a little goes a very long way!!

Here is a synopsis from a retailer
* Cornucrescine* promotes and accelerates healthy horn growth and aids
re-structuring of the hoof when used regularly. Cornucrescine also aids
re-growth of hair on scars and rubbed areas. Lasts forever, AMAZING.

- Unique formulation that promotes and accelerates healthy hoof
growth
- Cornucrescine maintains optimum hoof condition and aids
re-structuring of the hoof
- Cornucrescine also aids re-growth of hair
- Apply Cornucrescine regularly by hand, rubbing in well around the
coronet band. Results will be visible in 4-6 weeks

Clair


Re: Problems with Hind End - Need some help

mchambers333@...
 

carol,
where do you live ? I live in southern chester county, PA and I
had a TWH and all the vets i used did not know how the walker's locomotion
worked. ( i live in TB, quarter horse country) I had 6 vets look at him. He
ended up having lyme's disease and EPM.
Just wanted to throw that at you because his hind end issues could be
something totally different. My TWH foundered also and they blamed it on that.

Michelle



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Chantilly - x rays - bad news - Dr. Kellon

Karen <karen@...>
 

This morning I am not so rattled. The farrier came and took her toes
back and lowered her heels. He elevated her feet one at a time on a
board so she did not have to stand on one foot. We have padded her
with a toe relief. I would like to give her an area that connects to
her stall that is another 10 x 10 space. This way she can move to
the outside to look around. Is this a good idea. The footing is pea
gravel and shaving and it is level.

Tilly's other vet that does accupuncture and chinese medicine called
this morning to see how she is. She told me she has about four or
five other horses that have crashed this fall. All but one of them
is very controlled with diet. She said she is not sure what is
causing this, but wonders if our weather which has been very warm in
the day and very cold 20 to 25 at night has something to do with it.

Thanks and waiting for Dr. Kellon to Help.

Karen, Chantilly and Tommi--- In
EquineCushings@..., "Karen" <karen@...> wrote:


Dr. Kellon,
I have e-mailed the x rays from August this year and the ones I had
done today to you. I am having trouble posting them to the photo
section.


Jioagulan and Isoxuprene

Kelly Hill
 

Hello everyone! I am new and originally came here in
Oct. due to my suspected Cushings 22yr old gelding
Squirt but I have found so many things here that I
think can help my other horses that my head is
spinning. (I have Squirt's blood work (he is Cushings)
and the hay is off being tested. He is on the
emergency diet and Pergoglide is on order. I will
update his information soon.)

I am actually inquiring about my 19 yr old Poppin. He
came to me w/ a navicular cyst in one hoof and has
been on 1/2-1gm bute daily for at least 2.5 years.
(EGADS!) I tried devil's claw, yucca, etc and have not
noticed a difference. He has been struggling w/ on and
off bouts of White Line disease for the past year. We
get it under control and then it flares again. I did
xrays and his heel was sinking in his "good foot". He
has sensitive skin (everything must be padded), does
not like to be touched (brushing is horse abuse) and
now he is blowing abcesses in both front feet. He also
tends to get a fungussy/rain rot type affliction on
his body that seems to coincide w/ the white line
flare ups. My farrier and I agree that there might be
some immune system issues but my vet doesn't think so.
His coat is normal. Should this horse have a blood
test?

I have got to get this horse off bute but he stands w/
both front feet out. The last trim we had abcesses but
saw healthy white line tissue. He is on Isoxsuprene
for the cyst. After reading this list I think I should
try Jioagulan and APF and get off the bute and get him
on the BP/balanced diet. My last question is can he be
on Isoxsuprene and Jioagulan at the same time?? Any
other recommendations?

Sorry this is so long but thanks to you all I have
hope for my boys!

Kelly and Squirt (Poppin, too)
Kentucky

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com


Re: Fire Victim

amyt001 <aet001@...>
 

I'm in PA but I might have extra general horse stuff, please let us
know if you need anything. I can mail things to you, depending on
sizes...
Amy & Misty in PA
(& Herbie & Dylan)

--- In EquineCushings@..., SpotsNStripesRch@... wrote:

Hi:? This is Nancy Nunke with Spots 'N Stripes Ranch, in Ramona,
CA...I've lost my ranch in the fire and I don't have anything with my
passwords or other internet 'stuff', so please pass this on to
someone who could have my Cushings emails come to me in a single
email instead of individual emails...they are taking up all my
available email space and I can only get to my emails on a friend's
computer a couple of times a week, and important emails are being
bounced back because my email box is full...so please, please,
someone change my individual Cushings emails to a single email on
yahoo....thank you, thank you, thank you...

Nancy Nunke
635 Old Julian Highway
Ramona, CA 92065

760-898-3927

http://www.spotsnstripes.com



-----Original Message-----


Is there a file with Chaste Tree Berry information? I don't see one...

kksmalley
 

Hello All,

I may just be missing it but I was looking for a file with information
on chaste tree berries. I've been searching the messages and am trying
to piece together the bits and pieces of info I'm finding but wanted
to make sure I'm not missing important data in a specific place.

I think I recently read it may be detrimental to the horse in some
cases and since I have my mare on it I'm worried about if I really
should and if so, what the right dose would be.

She's about a 1000 lbs and I'm giving a heaping teaspoon twice a day.

Thanks you!

Kris & Scarlet


Re: Fire Victim

titancowgirl
 

Dear Nancy, If I can help in some way, with needed horse supplies please
let me know. I'll be glad to mail out to you. Good luck and God bless! ~Grace
and Thor



************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


Re: Problems with Hind End - Need some help

jroep03
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Gary & Kathy Saucier"
<gksaucier@...> wrote:
I have walkers too and my C's/IR horse Magic had very low laminitis
in the past that was so slight that we didn't really recognize it as
front end/feet. The back end would start to have problems, stiffness,
not moving and striding well. When the front hurt, they move their
weight to the back end and it eventually gets tight, sore or even pull
things. For a long time I denied he had any problems in the front
hooves. >

Oh boy, this is sounding quite familiar... Josie's a TWH as well and
there's a noticeable difference in her overstride, or lack thereof (as
TWH owners watch religiously) when she's under the influence of
improper diet. I see her dumping her weight on the front end more
when she's sore than shifting to the back end. Soon as her diet's
right, she'll use her hind end for breaking action (downward canter
transitions). When she's sore, she throws her weight onto her front
end during downward transitions.
Because Josie gets so muscle sore/intense spasms, I've assumed she's
not foot sore. I check her crest & hooves daily for warmth but so
far, they're always a normal temp, pulses normal. Crest changes often
tho but her minerals aren't balanced yet. I hope that I haven't ever
misread those signs. Her shoulders & neck get so tight that she
couldn't do anything more than drag her toes along anyhow. Soon as
her diet's right, she's got plenty of animation,overstride + great
head shake. Getting her sugar & starch in an acceptable range goes a
lot farther than massage. She's gotten so sore that she grinds her
teeth & moves away when I reach out to touch her neck. I do massage
her often to try to iron out the last of the muscle spasms but she's
not ready for deep tissue massage yet.

Anyway, work the diet, follow Abby's ideas then look into having
either a chiropractor look at him or at least have some "good" massage
work done.

Chiropractic adjustments help a lot. Josie's neck & croup get out of
alignment from the muscle spasms, which have literally tipped her
atlas to one side. The chiro was very surprised it wasn't from
pulling back when tied (she's never done that).

He probably also needs some joint help. HA, injections, or whatever
is safe.

I've had good results with HA as well. Again, the best results with
the low S/S diet.

Julie & Josie


Re: Beet pulp and supplements?

5 Pine Ranch
 

Not off topic and yes, it will change your dietary needs. Do you have a hay analysis?

Amberlee
www.fivepineranch.com
Please Visit Our Site!


Re: Test Results for Foxy

Barbara <b.dayton@...>
 

Correction on reference range for

Post Dexamethasone Result 1.7 Reference Range <1 ug/dL Flag H



--- In EquineCushings@..., "Barbara" <b.dayton@...>
wrote:

I finally recieved a copy of Foxys test results. I am confused
about
the results. I tried comparing the results to others posted but
her
numbers are so much different. Could someone please tell me what
they
mean?

Lab Used: IDEXX Laboratories

Pre Dexamethasone Result 3.0 Reference Range 1-3 ug/dL Flag (blank)
Post Dexamethasone Result 1.7 Reference Range 1-3 ug/dL Flag H

Insulin Result 15 Ref Range 29-179 pmol/L Flag L
Glucose Result 4.3 Ref Range 4.2-6.4 mmol/L Flag (blank)
Insulin:Glucose Ratio Result 3
T4 Result 1.4 Ref Range 0.9-2.8 ug/dL Flag (blank)

THANKS!
Barbara


Re: Hay analysis

Janet Gerl
 

Sandy wrote:
You are very lucky, if your supplements match your hay. Most
of us need a custom mix, since hays can vary so much in the amounts
of each mineral. Have you had your hay tested and found that the
supplement you use matches that?

Sandy . . . I'm pretty new here, so in light of that, let me just say I
can't imagine mixing your own supplements ingredient by ingredient.
Surely you are purchasing some pre-packaged supplements to make up your
entire mix to match your hay.
I'm under the impression that we are just trying to stay within "safe"
acceptable ranges. So I'm guessing that Dr. Kellon looked at my hay
results and the PDFs I sent her of my supplement labels and concluded
that I'm within the safe ranges and all is well.

In answer to your last question, yes I have had my hay tested and after
sending that information along with PDFs of my supplements, Dr. Kellon
said it looks okay. She just commented that he didn't need any more
iron in his diet. So based on that, I asked if anyone knew of
pre-packaged supplements without iron. An overall vitamin - mineral mix
without iron. And someone did respond with what I see to be an
acceptable supplement without iron that I am considering switching to.

Janet


Test Results for Foxy

Barbara <b.dayton@...>
 

I finally recieved a copy of Foxys test results. I am confused about
the results. I tried comparing the results to others posted but her
numbers are so much different. Could someone please tell me what they
mean?

Lab Used: IDEXX Laboratories

Pre Dexamethasone Result 3.0 Reference Range 1-3 ug/dL Flag (blank)
Post Dexamethasone Result 1.7 Reference Range 1-3 ug/dL Flag H

Insulin Result 15 Ref Range 29-179 pmol/L Flag L
Glucose Result 4.3 Ref Range 4.2-6.4 mmol/L Flag (blank)
Insulin:Glucose Ratio Result 3
T4 Result 1.4 Ref Range 0.9-2.8 ug/dL Flag (blank)

THANKS!
Barbara


Re: Problems with Hind End - Need some help

Saucier Kathy
 

Carol,
After trying Abby's advice and getting his diet tight there might be some things to help his back end.
I have walkers too and my C's/IR horse Magic had very low laminitis in the past that was so slight that we didn't really recognize it as front end/feet. The back end would start to have problems, stiffness, not moving and striding well. When the front hurt, they move their weight to the back end and it eventually gets tight, sore or even pull things. For a long time I denied he had any problems in the front hooves. Got to tackle that first.
And I too have been through the falling leaves problem recently and had to move him to a different dry lot that has no trees to drop leaves into.

Anyway, work the diet, follow Abby's ideas then look into having either a chiropractor look at him or at least have some "good" massage work done. I actually have a Rolfer who works on people and horses in addition to a good equine massage person.
He probably also needs some joint help. HA, injections, or whatever is safe.
Kathy Saucier, Magic (IR & C's, almost 24 yr old) and Grayson
North Texas

5a. Problems with Hind End - Need some help
Posted by: "calpiner" calpiner@... calpiner
Date: Thu Nov 1, 2007 8:20 pm ((PDT))


Re: testing -why so many labs?

J Amick
 

No, Kansas STate is the only place that can do the iron profiles.
Think it has to do with the machines etc. Cost alot. Cornell does
many other processes for blood, but not that one. As far as I know,
KSU is THE only one available currently.
Judy-PA


Linda wrote:

OK, so I need an iron panel & insulin/glucose (and in a few weeks,
another ACTH) Why does one have to go to KSU and the other to Cornell?
Isn't there one place that can do it all??





Re: What do i need to do to see improvement?

J Amick
 

Do you have any boots on him to protect that foot from the ground?
Perhaps you should look into this. Try the diaper boot first to see if
he responds to the additional softness.

I was in the same boat for about 6-7 months, then had additional xrays
taken recently and found
that my gelding has grown an "elf" pointed tip at the end of his
coffin bone. This
came from last year's penetration of the coffin bones on both front.
BOTH
fronts have this. In speaking with Dr. K, and a few other specialists
the tip is being "remodeled", and he needs the soft ride boots. This
horse can NEVER be barefoot, is exactly what I was told by a podiatrist
vet, and I am now looking into glue on shoes. Since I put the
Soft ride boots on him,
he is now gaiting up a storm in the pasture. He has had NO shoes on
since January.

Just some food for thought.
Judy-PA




mel wrote:

My horse is still no better.

Hes been wrong a year now. hes been barefoot since march. since about
may hes been the same soundness wise. he toe flicks, gets sore just
before trimming if left too long (currently going 3 weeks) and sore
after trimming for a day or so. his last laminitis attack was january.



Re: Jiaogulan - silly question

Deb Platt
 

The mare is out in the dry lot and we play a game - I scratch and massage her - then I leave she follows - if she wants to. Then I stop and massage her some more. Not a lot, but our regular vet encourages her to get out and move some. Our other vet that does her accupunture feels she is not very lame - but we have had this mare for 10 years and know when she is even slightly off.



Sandra Su <ssu@...> wrote:
>Posted by: "Deb Platt" <mailto:da_platt@...?Subject=
Re%3AJiaogulan%20-%20silly%20question> da_platt@...
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/da_platt> da_platt

Thu Nov 1, 2007 5:46 am (PST)
... she is still having problems lame on left front. ... Excercised every day.
Exercised how? If she's lame, I think you don't want to force
her to exercise more than she wants to on her own. The hoof gurus can
say more about this.
--

Sandy Su
ssu@...


Re: Chasteberry

rita@...
 

Make sure that you let him know it's NOT the glucose tolerance test (or
glucose challenge as some of the old school know it as). You just need
the glucose value from the standard chemistry panel!! :)
More might understand that. It shouldn't be more than $20 to run that
one test out of a chemistry panel.
They can still do the insulin from the same blood draw as well, but make
sure you have it in the correct tube for collection, etc.

good luck!
Rita
Indiana

JGHIRETIRE@... wrote:
He just flat said no.? He told me the Glucose test cost over $200 and
didn't do one.

182161 - 182180 of 280353