Date   

Re: hyperthyroid?

sun_hair2002 <georgeag11@...>
 

Thanks for your response, Jane. I did check the anhydrosis files
prior to having the bloodwork done, which is why I wanted the vet
to check her thyroid levels. However, the files suggest that this is
normally a problem with HYPO rather than HYPER thyroidism,
wherein her T3 should have been low, rather than high.

However, one statement in the files did seem possibly relevant: "as
I understand it, too much TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) is
produced which leads ultimately to thyroid exhaustion, the thyroid
ceases to respond to the TSH and therefore is no longer producing
sufficient thryoidhormones. The key with that disease is to slow
down the pituitary's production of TSH (and other hormones) so
that the thyroid can recover and produce the correct amount of
thyroid hormones."

The vet suggested (before we had the results back) that if they
came back without answers, we might test her ACTH. Does the
above statement suggest that her ACTH might be the root cause?
Does it make sense to have the vet back out for ad'l bloodwork?

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Jane" <kohpoh_th@...> wrote:

You can check the files for anhydrosis. They should give you a lot
of information on this condition which is most often caused by stress
in some form and probably a feed imbalance too.


Winter pasture...

minesafety <MineSafety@...>
 

Hi Carol, I have X-Large BOA boots for my draft that he wears when he
is out (from 7:30 a.m. - 4/4:30 p.m.), and I wrap his legs for warmth.
I use the polyester-quilt that wraps around his front legs about 1-1/2
times and then held in place with the more stretchy wrap with velcro. I
was also concerned because we are in upstate NY, and this is the first
winter I've tried this (after having winter laministis last year). When
I unwrap his legs when he comes in, he is nice and toasty! He is very
patient about the whole thing and the BOA boots work great.


Re: EquineMedSurg - Insulin Resistance

equimedsurg <equimedsurg@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Claire C. Cox-Wilson"
<shotgun.ranch@...> wrote:

--- In EquineCushings@..., "equimedsurg" <equimedsurg@>
wrote:

Dr. Kellon:

Thank you for taking the time to send me a note. The exchange of
information, newest research findings, and testing methods helps
owners with horses with Insulin Resistance. I look forward to us
working together towards this goal.
...............
Dr. Frank K. Reilly
equimedsurg@
Dr. Reilly

I have been a member of this list since the summer of 2000. I am
very
familiar with this list's philosophy and the protocol for management
of both IR and Cushing's horses. Protocol and guidelines that have
proven effective over and over again by horses on this list,
including
my own. As a member of this list I'm offended that you would use
this
list to privately contact horse owners of IR horses to sell your
products and recommend your practices. Not only do I find this to
be a
violation of our members' privacy but I feel it is unethical, not to
mention an insult to Dr. Kellon's work here.
It is also quite clear that you have not read our files.
We are very familiar with the replacement of the NSC value by the
ESC
term and its implications. You're singing to the choir. And I also
believe that the feed analysis pioneer is Dr. Kellon not Katy Watts.
As for your Sweet feed challenge....I reserve my opinion as I'm not
a
doctor or scientist.
After visiting your website, I would like to know why you don't
list
any ingredients for your products? Personally,I would not feed my
horses a supplement without a list of ingredients and a guaranteed
analysis would be helpful too.
Claire from AZ
Dear Claire:

Thank you for sending me a note all the way from Arizona.

Dr. Kellon and I are having informative and helpful discussions and I
hope you get a chance to read them.

Have a great holiday season.

Sincerely,
Dr. Reilly


Can I put my IR horse out in the winter pasture ?

Carol Vincent
 

Good Morning Everyone,
Since winter is obviously here in NE Indiana - we received our first 4"
of snow - can I put my horses out in the large pasture for extended
periods of time or do I still need to monitor my mare's time out in the
frozen tundra?

Currently - she remains on grass hay - dirt lot - beet pulp and
vitamin/supplements from horse tech. She is doing AWESOME!!

Thanks again,
carol n romka


Julie's hay....posted in files section

julie <juliecongleton@...>
 


Re: www.sporthorses.com

Mandy Woods
 

Ooops, Julie,
I didn't realize the hayform file is down too. I just opened the Case Histories if anyone needs to go in there.
Mandy


Re: www.sporthorses.com

Mandy Woods
 

Hi Julie,
You can enter your hay results at http://www.sportshorses.com/hayform.htm
Mandy and Asher in VA


Ginseng

drkellon@...
 

A major reason for the ginseng is blocking ACTH effects (i.e. high ACTH triggers cortisol release from the adrenals):

Neurosci Lett. 2003 May 29;343(1):62-6. Links

Effects of ginseng saponin administered intraperitoneally on the hypothalamo-pituitary-adrenal axis in mice.

Kim DH, Moon YS, Jung JS, Min SK, Son BK, Suh HW, Song DK.

Department of Psychiatry, College of Medicine, Institute of Natural Medicine, Hallym University, Chunchon, Kangwon-Do, 200-702, South Korea.

Intraperitoneal injection of ginseng total saponin (GTS; 5 and 20 mg/kg) raised plasma corticosterone levels in mice. However, interestingly, pretreatment of animals with the same doses of GTS (5 and 20 mg/kg) significantly attenuated the immobilization stress-induced increase in plasma corticosterone levels. Of the ginsenosides Rb(1), Rb(2), Rc, Rd, Re, Rf, Rg(1), 20(S)-Rg(3), and 20(R)-Rg(3) injected intraperitoneally at doses of 0.1-2 mg/kg, Rc (2 mg/kg) significantly inhibited the immobilization stress-induced increase in plasma corticosterone levels. GTS and Rc administered intraperitoneally did not affect the immobilization stress-induced elevation of plasma adrenocorticotropic hormone (ACTH) level. Pretreatment with GTS and Rc significantly attenuated the increase in plasma corticosterone levels induced by intraperitoneal injection of ACTH (30 microg/kg). These results suggest that GTS and Rc inhibit the immobilization stress-induced increase in plasma corticosterone levels by blocking ACTH action in the adrenal gland. Ginseng may be proposed to be useful for treatment of stress related disorders.
====================================

In other words, it seems to "compete" with ACTH, therefore blocking its effects.

This study also found a cortisol lowering effect in another high cortisol condition in humans - depression:

Int J Gynaecol Obstet. 1999 Dec;67(3):169-74. Related Articles, Links
?
Effect of Korean red ginseng on psychological functions in patients with
severe climacteric syndromes.

Tode T, Kikuchi Y, Hirata J, Kita T, Nakata H, Nagata I.

Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, National Defense Medical College,
Tokorozawa, Saitama, Japan. qw104765@...

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate the degree of psychological dysfunction and levels of
stress hormones in postmenopausal women with climacteric syndromes and effect
of Korean red ginseng (RG) on them. METHODS: ACTH, cortisol and DHEA-S in
peripheral blood from 12 postmenopausal women with climacteric syndromes or 8
postmenopausal women without any climacteric syndrome were measured before and
30
days after treatment with daily oral administration of 6 g RG. Blood samples
were collected in the early morning on the bed-rest. In postmenopausal women
with climacteric syndromes such as fatigue, insomnia and depression,
psychological tests using the Cornell Medical Index (CMI) and the State-Trait
Anxiety
Inventory (STAI) were performed before and 30 days after treatment with RG.
RESULTS: CMI score as well as anxiety (A)-state in STAI score in postmenopausal
women with climacteric syndromes was significantly higher than that without
climacteric syndrome, while DHEA-S levels in postmenopausal women with
climacteric
syndromes were about a half of those without climacteric syndrome.
Consequently, cortisol/DHEA-S (C/D) ratio was significantly higher in
postmenopausal
women with climacteric syndromes than in those without climacteric syndrome.
When
postmenopausal women with climacteric syndromes were treated with daily oral
administration of 6 g RG for 30 days, CMI and STAI A-state scores decreased
within normal range. Although the decreased DHEA-S levels were not restored to
the levels in postmenopausal women without climacteric syndrome, the C/D ratio
decreased significantly after treatment with RG. CONCLUSIONS: Improvement of
CMI and STAI scores in postmenopausal women suffering climacteric syndromes,
particularly fatigue, insomnia and depression, by RG seemed to be brought about
in part by effects of RG on stress-related hormones as shown by a decrease in
C/D ratio.




Eleanor M. Kellon, V.M.D.
Equine Nutritional Solutions
58 Maple Farm Road
Ephrata, PA 17522

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ACTH - help ! ? do not understand

mchambers333@...
 

Michelle L. Chambers



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Re: Winter pasture...

mchambers333@...
 

why do you wrap his legs ?
My mare was wearing easy boots while she was out but when i went this AM (30
F*) they were extremely hard to put on. I even put them in my running car
w/ the heat on. There is enough snow on the ground where (hopefully) that it
is a little cushin w/o hitting the frozen ground. She is only w/ a pony so
there is not alot of running around. My barefoot trimmer said she should be
fine. I always had her shoes on in the AM only and off at night when in a
small paddock w/ her run in stall bedded deeply.

Michelle L. Chambers



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Re: ACceptable treats for cushings horse

Carlynne Allbee
 

1. One of my horses seems to prefer a good scratching on the withers to any treat you could feed her.
2. When I eat celery, I get the strings caught in my teeth. Could that happen to a horse and how miserable would that be since they don't floss?
3. One treat my guys love is a couple Fritos. Not a handful, just a couple of them.
4. They love anything fed by hand.

Carlynne and Patience


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Re: www.sporthorses.com

5 Pine Ranch
 

Julie, our case history & hay analysis websites are down. We are
working to fix this. If you have a PDF copy of your hay analysis,
please post in our Files Section

Amberlee


Re: Acceptable treats for Cushings horse

Saucier Kathy
 

My horse Magic loves his treats. Since I can't do much else with him anymore, grooming, loving and treats are our interactions.
I find the sugar free peppermints at Wal-Mart. I haven't found a grocery store brand that has them here but all the WM's do. So try that.
This brand is Bob's Starlight Mints made by Farley's & Sathers Candy Co.
I will occasionally bring him a piece of broccoli stem. He enjoys getting something "green". (before I go any further I use treats in moderation - small amounts not handfuls)
He also likes a few herbs. I have chopped Hawthorn berries & leaves and I toss a small palmful of each in a bucket along with a few sunflower seeds as something different from time to time. Always keeping total amounts small, plus he seems to tolerate these ok. Possibly not all IR horses can, I don't know.

But I also want to recommend the Skodes Horse Treats. Magic was a taste tester for the Nutty Seed cookies and was one of the few that turned his nose up to them. I tossed them in the freezer and forgot about them for awhile. When I discovered them I gave him a "frozen" one and he has eaten them every since. Go figure!
And he LOVES the new Minty Rose brownies as well.
The mix that someone mentioned is the Nutty Seed recipe in dry form for you to bake up the cookies yourself. It gives you the option of thick and moist or thin and hard, depending on your horse's liking.

But now for a funny story.
Today I was standing in the aisle of the barn I board at with Magic held loosely by the lead rope busy talking. The refrigerator is also in that aisle. Magic starting using his lip to get into the freezer and actually opened the door. He knows where his cookies are!!
He is a very happy horse when he gets his peppermints and his Skodes treats.
Kathy Saucier


Re: hyperthyroid?

Jane <kohpoh_th@...>
 

You can check the files for anhydrosis. They should give you a lot
of information on this condition which is most often caused by stress
in some form and probably a feed imbalance too.
Jane in Thailand--- In EquineCushings@..., "sun_hair2002"
<georgeag11@...> wrote:

My horse (not previously diagnosed as cushingoid) had her thyroid
tested this week. She was
exhibiting an intolerance to exercise, and had stopped sweating
(we're in Floirda). Her T-4
was normal, but T-3 was rather elevated. My vet is perplexed, and
has offered no solutions
to her difficulties, other than to give her more food and more
electrolytes, and test her agina
in a month (she ran the bloodwork twice to be sure it wasn't an
error).

I couldn't find any information on treating hyperthyroidism in the
files, or in the archives.

Can anyone offer any insight into what I need to consider?


Epona glue on shoes update...

J Amick
 

I promised I'd give an update on Es's glue on shoes. They have been on now 2+ weeks, and
they are doing great. I had the farrier place one nail on each side of both shoes, because the mud
here was horrible! We now have ice, snow and 6 degree temps. Both shoes are still on and functioning well.

I was asked why I selected these shoes, and I failed to answer due to time.
These shoes have a metal wire support inside of them for flexion and give with the hoof.. I believe
that is shown on the web site.

Again, I am pleased and so is the farrier. He told me that these shoes would be a God send
for minature horses. We had to use a hair dryer on them to dry since the temps were in the 20's. Just some food for thought.
Judy-PA


Re: ginseng prescribed by Dr. Kellon...is there a write-up I can show my vet?

n rand <nantomluna@...>
 

My vet is coming out to see Tom tomorrow and I want to be able to show him something re: the canadian ginseng (sp?) that Dr. Kellon suggested I give Tom as vasodialator for his laminitis treatment. I looked in files and can't find anything. Am I missing it?

Thanks

Nan Rand
Thomas
IL


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Re: stained teeth

Helaine Elliott <helaineelliott@...>
 

I just thought I would throw my two cents worth in here. There is a Thoroughbred horse here who cribs and also teeth scrapes? Scrapes his teeth along the wood. His teeth are discolored like a smokers. Sounds like the enamel wear thing too.

Helaine


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chasteberry dosage - clarification

minesafety <MineSafety@...>
 

I get the seeds from Lori's Natural Foods in Rochester, N.Y. A large
foil pouch is around $12 (maybe a pound?)and my guess is it will last 3
months.

It was suggested I give 2 tablespoons of chaste berry with the morning
feed and 2 tablespoons with the evening feed. However, My older horses
get fed their beet pulp mix four times each day (5:30 a.m., 10 a.m., 4
p.m. 9 p.m.), so I give 1 tablespoon of chasteberry at each feeding in
with the beet pulp. I also finely grind the chasteberry seeds into a
powder with a coffee mill, so they may get more than if you do not
grind them. Warning -- DO NOT use the coffee mill for coffee after
that! It's hard to clean and the seed residue tastes horrible to me. I
just happened to have 2 coffee mills.


hyperthyroid?

sun_hair2002 <georgeag11@...>
 

My horse (not previously diagnosed as cushingoid) had her thyroid tested this week. She was
exhibiting an intolerance to exercise, and had stopped sweating (we're in Floirda). Her T-4
was normal, but T-3 was rather elevated. My vet is perplexed, and has offered no solutions
to her difficulties, other than to give her more food and more electrolytes, and test her agina
in a month (she ran the bloodwork twice to be sure it wasn't an error).

I couldn't find any information on treating hyperthyroidism in the files, or in the archives.

Can anyone offer any insight into what I need to consider?


Re: chasteberry dosage

dbion36@...
 

Where do you get the seeds?? I need to clarify.? Do you mean 1 TBSP morning and evening or do you mean 2 TBSP morning and evening?

Thanks,

Jene

-----Original Message-----
From: minesafety <MineSafety@...>
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 7:28 pm
Subject: [EquineCushings] chasteberry dosage







The local horse rescue group, which has used chasteberry, suggested 2
tablespoons in 2 feedings. I feed my old guy 4 times per day, so I have
added a tablespoon in each of his feedings. I have a coffee grider just
for the seeds. His numbers were on the rise (with the pergolide) and he
gets tested again the end of January -- so I will know then if the
chasteberry is working. At first, he did not want to eat his beet pulp
mix with the chasteberry -- but after three meals he was O.K., with it.
I was told that chasteberry is typically used in early diagnosis. That
said, my vet did not want to raise his pergolide dosage anymore (yet he
is a large belgian X draft), so I'm trying the chasteberry for almost 8
weeks before his next test. (The previous test was in July... and it
was only recently that I decided on the chasteberry after watching that
curly winter coat come in). I will inform this message board of my
results.





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