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Re: ADM hay replacer
STOMPERX@...
oh, i forgot, this analisys is? AFTER the product is made, not each individual product.
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? val
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary & Kathy Saucier <gksaucier@...> To: EquineCushings@... Sent: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 1:04 pm Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: ADM hay replacer Val, We talked briefly about this one last year. Check message archives #76615. Then fast forward to #80476 on 8/31/06. Then starting with Lisa's message #80505 and progress forward through the dialog including 80514, 80517, 80519 and 80523. Again in April '07 #90551. I think basically if someone wants to use this feed or at least consider it, they should buy one bag and send in a sample to Equi-analytical. It might help several people out since this topic has come up several times. I don't quite understand how it can be a hay replacer since it lists soybean hulls and wheat middlings as the first two ingredients. Sounds more like a feed, as a carrier for our supplements of course if you can't use beet pulp. But nothing to compare to Sterrett's, ODTB cubes or TC Safe Starch Forage all of which are a chopped or pelleted hay with the additional nutrients incorporated. I never was able to get a straight answer when I contacted them. There is a lot of confusion with these feed companies when you ask NSC (old term), sugar and starch. They give you one of the figures and claim it is the whole NSC total. This keeps happening over and over. I'm hoping Eleanor can get somewhere with her email asking for the ESC, starch, iron, magnesium, etc. Kathy Saucier ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com
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Re: ADM hay replacer
STOMPERX@...
this is what i got talking to one person at ADM, not sure if this helps.....
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fiber: 30% protein 11% fat 2 1/2 % calcium .75 minimum, maximum 1.25 phospherous .3% salt maximum 7.5 copper 30 ppm selenium .25ppm zinc 75 ppm vitamen A 400 IU per pound starch 6-7% i think she was reading ingredient label to me. she was not able to tell me sugar content or NSC.? this is made with dehydrated alfalfa meal, NOT long stem alfalfa. due to this being alfalfa meal and not long stem, if your horse is given this as total diet, or majority 80% +, of his diet, most horses get loose stools.? they reccommend that you give our horse at least 1 flake of hay per feeding to reduce the loose stool. if you buy this in bulk, (by the ton) the formula can be "tweaked" to meet your specific needs. sorry for not shortening the previous post.... ? val
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary & Kathy Saucier <gksaucier@...> To: EquineCushings@... Sent: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 1:04 pm Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: ADM hay replacer Val, We talked briefly about this one last year. Check message archives #76615. Then fast forward to #80476 on 8/31/06. Then starting with Lisa's message #80505 and progress forward through the dialog including 80514, 80517, 80519 and 80523. Again in April '07 #90551. I think basically if someone wants to use this feed or at least consider it, they should buy one bag and send in a sample to Equi-analytical. It might help several people out since this topic has come up several times. I don't quite understand how it can be a hay replacer since it lists soybean hulls and wheat middlings as the first two ingredients. Sounds more like a feed, as a carrier for our supplements of course if you can't use beet pulp. But nothing to compare to Sterrett's, ODTB cubes or TC Safe Starch Forage all of which are a chopped or pelleted hay with the additional nutrients incorporated. I never was able to get a straight answer when I contacted them. There is a lot of confusion with these feed companies when you ask NSC (old term), sugar and starch. They give you one of the figures and claim it is the whole NSC total. This keeps happening over and over. I'm hoping Eleanor can get somewhere with her email asking for the ESC, starch, iron, magnesium, etc. Kathy Saucier ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com
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Re: No blood for testing - now what?
Suzanne Clothier <clothier@...>
Hi
Thank you for the advice. As noted in my original email, one cephalic is thrombosed, and despite clipping and 6-8 sticks, could not get more than 4 mls from the remaining cephalic. We will add the heat packs as suggested, and have put APF into the mix. Finding boots to fit a donkey - not been successful so far. Donkey hooves are shaped differently. Dosage on j-herb and/or AAKG and/or ginseng for her?? thanks, Suzanne & Shrimp
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Re: ADM hay replacer
STOMPERX@...
Thanks Kathy.
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? i think this would be a product to feed only if you could find nothing else?? it does not intill confidence in me as a consumer, to not be able to get the answers.? there seems to be more questions than answers. if no one is sure about this product, why is it listed on the cushing website as being a safe feed for IR horses?? the fact that it is in the cushing files, almost seems like an endorcement.? when i first saw it on the board, after finding it in "real life", i thought my problems were over.? problem being, no food for my horse.? i got excited. how much does it cost to send in for testing?? do you just need a small sample, or would i need to send a whole bag? val
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary & Kathy Saucier <gksaucier@...> To: EquineCushings@... Sent: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 1:04 pm Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: ADM hay replacer ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com
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Re: Source for calcium
kellie_wright <kawright@...>
4-6gms - 2 different size horses Can he tolerate alfalfa cubes?Yes, he can, but alfalfa makes my mare wild (and we don't need help in that dept...) Did you check www.uckele.com to see what they can send you forcalcium? Uckele has a "palatable" calcium supplement (i.e. sugary!) and a 50lb bag of calcium carbonate...I don't want to know what shipping is on that! Amberlee Kellie
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Re: ADM hay replacer
Saucier Kathy
Val,
We talked briefly about this one last year. Check message archives #76615. Then fast forward to #80476 on 8/31/06. Then starting with Lisa's message #80505 and progress forward through the dialog including 80514, 80517, 80519 and 80523. Again in April '07 #90551. I think basically if someone wants to use this feed or at least consider it, they should buy one bag and send in a sample to Equi-analytical. It might help several people out since this topic has come up several times. I don't quite understand how it can be a hay replacer since it lists soybean hulls and wheat middlings as the first two ingredients. Sounds more like a feed, as a carrier for our supplements of course if you can't use beet pulp. But nothing to compare to Sterrett's, ODTB cubes or TC Safe Starch Forage all of which are a chopped or pelleted hay with the additional nutrients incorporated. I never was able to get a straight answer when I contacted them. There is a lot of confusion with these feed companies when you ask NSC (old term), sugar and starch. They give you one of the figures and claim it is the whole NSC total. This keeps happening over and over. I'm hoping Eleanor can get somewhere with her email asking for the ESC, starch, iron, magnesium, etc. Kathy Saucier
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Re: Custom Mineral Prices
Cindy Lawbaugh <LAWBARABS@...>
--- In EquineCushings@..., "briarskingstonnet"
<briars@...> wrote: Hi Cindy,Good point, but I did include Uckele's freight amount, so it would be an apples-to-apples. Did you compare the ingredients each company uses,in the event thatThat's the part I don't know. I assume Uckele is using their "Poly" Zinc, Copper and Manganese, and actually, after calculating the amount of those I'd feed to achieve the milligrams I need of each (example, Poly-Copper is 12.5%) the weight of the dose is what I'd expect it to be: 2.2oz. Horsetech's is 65gms, which is essentially the same. Here's another question. Of the 2.2oz dose of my custom, 2 ozs of that is the flax base, and only 0.2 oz are the trace minerals. When they mix, is it a guaranteed analysis per dose, in other words, is the mix consistent throughout. ~Cindy
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Re: Custom Mineral Prices
briarskingstonnet <briars@...>
I've just received quotes from Uckele and Horsetech.Hi Cindy, I can't answer your main question but just wanted to ask if shipping is included in your calcs? I don't know about Uckele,but I know Horsetech has free shipping within the U.S. Did you compare the ingredients each company uses,in the event that Rod's vary from Mike's ,or would they be using exactly the same ingredients to achieve the analysis you want? Lorna
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Re: Acetyl-l-carmitine
Karen <karen@...>
I was told 10 grams, about 3.5 teaspoons.
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Karen, Chantilly, Tommi and Koko--- In EquineCushings@..., "papballou" <PapBallou@...> wrote:
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Which Hay?
jvoutdoorz <jvining@...>
I'm getting hay today and need advice. No one responded to my previous
post. Here it is again. Help! Oh, I think I jinxed myself saying that things were going so well! Long story short, I don't have much hay storage and I buy hay from a middle man who gets hay from Eastern Oregon. There was plenty of hay available from the field/cutting I had tested and a shipment was to come in this week. Well, the farmer didn't cover it before the rains and it is all ruined! I have $100 of supplements for this hay for both Copper and Emmy. I have two options and need to know which is better. I can re-test sugar, but not a full panel. Should I get First cutting same field or same cutting across the street. I know my minerals will no longer be spot on, but I can't afford to start all over. Thanks for the advice. Jodie and Copper WA
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Should Skye get ACTH done?
myharleywood
Hi Dr. Kellon,
While I'm waiting for the go-ahead to put up Skye's case history, should I be running a baseline ACTH? The clinical signs that tipped me off were cresty neck, fat deposit at the base of the tail and a founder with rotation at somepoint in the past (She was surrendered back to me last month after being placed for four years so I do not know exactly when the founder occurred). She is a 7 y/o QH cross (maybe arab?) - age is not 100% as she was seized by the SPCA (who I got her from) and they guessed she was a yearling at a time. I'm working with the BO on diet but it's pretty good already (thank god the BO is GREAT). thanks, erica & Skye, Uxbridge ON
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Custom Mineral Prices
Cindy Lawbaugh <LAWBARABS@...>
I've just received quotes from Uckele and Horsetech.
Horsetech is 50% higher; last year their price was almost double Uckele's. Perusing the archives, most indications are that the two are usually very comparible, if not cheaper from Horsetech. So now of course, I'm paranoid of the large price difference. My custom mineral is 175 mg Copper 500 mg Zinc 430 mg Manganese in a 2 oz flax base. Uckele's comes to 31c/day, Horsetech's is 47c/day. Is there something you have to specifically tell Uckele that I may have neglected? I'm supplementing Mg/Ox separately, and the great news for me (and my picky-eaters), is I don't have to supplement Phosphorous this year! Thank You! Cindy
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Re: Baseline
Mandy Woods
Hey Nikita,
To diagnosis IR you want insulin and glucose from the same draw. Do not fast Mr. Thelwell, feed him just hay (low nsc or soaked) no grain or grass! Two or 3 hours after breakfast would be ideal. We check the GI ratio and RISQI. The values will give you a baseline. Be sure to chart the temperature, time of day of the pull and anything else pertinent to him. Take a photo of him too. Mandy and Asher in VA
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L-Lysine or L-LysineHCL?
tomtriv <Lee_Skee@...>
Hi all,
Just want to check that I have the correct type of Lysine. I got 1 kg of Monohydrochloride 95% Feed Grade for $10 at a local feed store that makes up pig feed. The guaranteed analysis is: L-Lysine (minimum) 78.8% Moisture (maximum) 1.5% The bag says it is Manufactured in the USA by Archer Daniels Midland Co. Decatur, IL. I intend to feed Dawn 10 mg/day. A kilo will last a pretty long time so, are there any storage needs I should know about? I thought I read somewhere that it should be kept dry? -LeeAnne Newmarket, Ontario Case History: http://www.sportshorses.com/cases/tomtriv.WimpleoDawnLight.htm Photos: http://pets.ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHoof/photos/browse/682a
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Re: Gelding with IR-sore feet again!
--- In EquineCushings@..., "marysutliff" <marysutliff@...>
wrote: Dr. Kellon, do you think Daz would benefit from the J-herb and/orYes, try him on J + AAKG. Be sure to use my new gmail address when you send your hay analysis. Eleanor
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Re: Antiflam for pain for Chantilly
--- In EquineCushings@..., "Karen" <karen@...> wrote:
it. Is it OK for IR horses?No contraindications I could find. Eleanor
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Equine Medical & Surgical Assoc.
equimedsurg <equimedsurg@...>
Dear Dr. Kellon:
Regarding G:I ratio - we both agree on glucose is normal in Insulin Resistance and both agree Glucose, by itself, tells little. Using Glucose normal range of 75-117 mg/dl via Cornell, I want to demonstrate a point. Imagine an insulin value and see what happens to the ratio as you make it: 80:I, 90:I, 100:I, 110:I. All Glucose levels are normal but the ratios change. Giving Glucose heavy weight in a ratio is where we differ. In a another test, 30 days later, I don't worry if my Glucose went from 80 to 90, as long as my Insulin is dropping. In a ratio, my Glucose could change 20 points and my Insulin drop 20 points and it would show no progress. I believe Glucose in the normal range and lowering Insulin means progress. We have had multiple horses drop hundreds of points in a month - both Cornell and Antech tests show this can be done. We both agree fasting a horse is not correct and would miss cases. We both agree expensive oral Glucose university tests (at least 12 blood samples) is also not practical. Sincerely, Dr. Frank K. Reilly equinemedsurg.com
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Re: Source for calcium
5 Pine Ranch
How much calcium do you need to add? Can he tolerate alfalfa cubes? Did you check www.uckele.com to see what they can send you for calcium? Do run past us the source of the mineral before you buy though since some are heavily contaminated with iron.
Amberlee www.fivepineranch.com Please Visit Our Site!
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Re: Acetyl-l-carmitine
papballou <PapBallou@...>
PS - It's acetyl-l-carnitine, with an *n* not *m*...I'm sure Dr K will post, but after I read her article, I wrote down10 gms per day for future reference.
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Re: Acetyl-l-carmitine
papballou <PapBallou@...>
--- In EquineCushings@..., n rand <nantomluna@...> wrote:
10 gms per day for future reference. Linda
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