Date   

Re: Hilton Herballs

Claire C. Cox-Wilson <shotgun.ranch@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Joan and Dazzle"
<horsies4luv@...> wrote:

Hi Ethlyn,

I've just heard about them today. They are made from alfalfa, wheat
flour and linseed meal, mixed with garlic, mint, oregano, and
rosemary. I don't know what their ESC+ starch content
is...........I'd want to see a test done on them before feeding them
to my
little IR princess.

Joan and Dazzle

I totally agree with Joan. I believe dried herbs in themselves are
safe for IR horses, but they must be using something as a binder (to
keep them together) ...molasses perhaps?
For my peace of mind, I prefer to play it safe and go with something
like Skode's Horse Treats that guarantee a NSC below 10%.
JMHO
Claire from AZ


Newly diagnosed

lloydequestrian <lloydequestrian@...>
 

My 4 year old Morgan gelding was diganosed this morning as insulin
resistant. My vet suggested this group, so here I am! I'm in need of a
new diet. The last 6 months his daily diet has been grass/alfalfa hay
(soaked) and a mash of beet pulp, senior feed, whole oats, rice bran,
clovite and a weight builder. Any suggestions on a new diet?? Any help
would be greatly appreciated. Thanks...Jamie


Northern Illinois Feed Dealer

shabbonawoman
 

Midland Crossing, Newark, IL opened in April. They are trying to be
open to the needs of their customers; have been trying different brands
and are willing to listen to the needs of their customers. Their
advertising hasn't been that great. They do carry TCSSF but for lack of
interest in the TC brand, it is being removed in favor of Purina.

I talked to Amy today. Her husband is an animal nutritionist and they
test their hay and balance minerals for their livestock. She was
unaware of the potential of selling small amounts to fill our needs or
the market for IR/Cushing horses.

Midland Crossing is located north of Interstate 80 between Joliet and
Ottawa. If anyone is needing TCSSF or need quantities of ODTB or other
brands, please contact Tara or Amy at 815-695-1130.

Cheryl


Re: Questions????????

Erin R. <figure1789@...>
 

Re: Magnesium Supplement
Here's a supplement that has the magnesium and the chromium used for IR
horses. It's called "Remission," and labeled for laminitic horses. My
horse has not foundered, but I use the product for his IR. (Have been using
it for about 2-3 weeks and his gutter butt is already gone.)

The price is pretty affordable. Here's the link:
http://www.horseloverz.com/Remission-Horse-Supplement-4-Pounds-pr-237816.html

Erin and Nick, Ohio


Re: Quick OT note on knee braces/wraps

repete134
 

What is the reason behind wrapping the legs and keeping them warm? Is this
just for Cushings horses? I thought the cold was good for laminitis?


Paula


**************************************
See AOL's top rated recipes
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop00030000000004)


Hilton Herballs

Joan and Dazzle
 

Hi Ethlyn,

I've just heard about them today. They are made from alfalfa, wheat
flour and linseed meal, mixed with garlic, mint, oregano, and
rosemary. I don't know what their ESC+ starch content is. I looked
up wheat in Dairy One's forage library
Wheat = 67% NSC
Wheat bran = 30.8% nsc
Wheat midds = 34.4% nsc

So, although I saw them and thought the description sounded pretty
good, I'd want to see a test done on them before feeding them to my
little IR princess.

Joan and Dazzle


--- In EquineCushings@..., "Ethlyn Vogler" <evogler@...>
wrote:

Hello, Group! I wanted to check in to alert you to a new treat
that I found (new to me anyway)--Hilton Herballs--they're just herbs
in nice little balls (about the size of a walnut) with no sugar, and
the horses like them very, very much!


Re: What is the difference between coastal bermuda and say california bermuda hay?

Joan and Dazzle
 

Hi cindfilou,

Do you have a name that we can call you by? It helps us keep track
of who's who...

Welcome to the group. Boy, it sounds like you sure have your hands
full!

Our list philosophy is DDTEs - diagnosis, low sugar/starch/fat diet,
Trim, and Exercise if they're able.

To really know what's going on, it would be a good idea to test your
horse. You will want a glucose and insulin test from the same blood
draw. We have information in the files that you can print out for
your vet. There is special handling that the vet must be aware of.
Many people on the list have their testing done at Cornell.

It seems like you have a little sticking point on the diet. You
can't know the sugar and starch content of hay just by looking at
it. Bermuda grass can be low in ESC + starch, or not. There are many
things that can stress grass to make it raise it's sugars. Oat hay
frequently is higher in sugars, but again, you won't know until you
test. The hard part is that sometimes the sugar and starch is so
high, that you can't soak enough sugar out of it to make it safe.
The only way to know for sure is to have your hay tested. Many
extension offices have a hay corer that you can borrow. Many of us
on the list use Equi-Analytical for their testing. You would want
the Trainer #603. It's good that you are soaking the hay.

You may also want to increase the amount of r/s/r beet pulp in his
diet. That's really low in sugar and will help the overall sugar
number be lower.

As you know, good farrier care is critical. I'm sure the hoof gurus
will hop in to comment on it.

It sounds like you're on the right track. If I were in your shoes,
the first thing I'd do is test the hay. That way, you'll know
exactly what you're feeding and the risk involved. You will also be
able to see what the mineral imbalances are in the feed and if
that's causing you any problems either.

Glad you're here. I hope that you'll get a case history up when
they're working again.

Joan and Dazzle

--- In EquineCushings@..., "cindfilou" <cpowell2@...>
wrote:

I thought that the bermuda hay was lower in general, in NSC
content ,that most others. What is the difference between coastal
bermuda and california bermuda? I am new to this and trying to
figure
this out. My horse has not been diagnosed with anything yet.


Re: Questions????????

Joan and Dazzle
 

Hi Joyce,

Welcome to the group. If you've been reading for awhile, you will
notice that we frequently talk about the DDTEs - diagnosis, low
sugar/starch/fat diet, trim, and exercise if your mare is able.

Many people who get to this site have horses that are in trouble.
You are very lucky to be here proactively.

Magnesium is suggested in the emergency diet. The emergency diet is
just that - what you do in an emergency. For long term care of a
horse that is Cushings or Insulin Resistant, we recommend balancing
your hay. It's really not as hard as it seems. You core your hay,
send it to the testing laboratory, get the results, have the hay
gurus help to balance it.

The goal of balancing your hay is to give your horses what they need
and leave out the things they don't need. So, if you KNOW that your
hay is not deficient in magnesium, then you do not supplement it.
You only give what your hay is missing.

Many people have magnesium deficient hay. Mine is not. But, I need
more copper and zinc, which Miss Dazzle just hates. She gets it
syringed because she refuses to eat it in her bucket.

MagOx from the feed store is more palatable than Epsom Salts. Many
people who cannot get the Mag Ox from their local feed store order
smaller quantities from www.uckele.com - they sell it in a small
container. But, if your hay is NOT magnesium deficient, you don't
even need it.

The question of whether IR is an inherited trait is still up in the
air. There are inferences in some studies that it might be. But I
liken this to insulin resistance in humans. Just because you may
have the genetics for a particular disease does not always mean that
you will have it. Behavior and choices go a long way in how a
disease is expressed.

Dazzle is an Arab. I've had to learn a new method of horsekeeping
than what I had practiced before. I now have to weigh her hay daily.
I also have to test her hay before I buy it and feed it. I live in
town and test every 3 months, rebalancing my minerals to my hay
every time. I only feed low sugar cookies. When I first started, I
was overwhelmed by the whole process. It took me months to wrap my
head around it. But I look at my little princess now. It's
definitely worth it. And, I have the tools and the skills to help
her for years into the future.

I can't really say about the effects of pregnancy on an IR horse.
This is outside of my realm. Maybe someone else can jump in here
about that.

We're glad you're here now. It's always such a heartbreak when
people are here and their horses are laminitic. Read more in the
files, ask more questions. When our case histories are back up, you
may want to post case history informationm, so that we can better
help you with a long term plan.

Joan and Dazzle



--- In EquineCushings@..., "Ronald & Joyce Williams"
<dustoff_farm@...> wrote:

1. Is a magnesium supplement needed if local hay is not magnesium
deficient?

3. Is IR an inheritable trait or a disease/condition?


(No subject)

Ethlyn Vogler
 

Hello, Group! I wanted to check in to alert you to a new treat that I found (new to me anyway)--Hilton Herballs--they're just herbs in nice little balls (about the size of a walnut) with no sugar, and the horses like them very, very much!

Ethlyn


availability of Sterret Pellets & ODBalanced Cubes in Santa Fe

maragreymare
 

I am seriously considering a move to Santa Fe & am concerned about the availability of
the Sterret Pellets or alternatvely the Ontario Dehy Baldnced Cubes in Santa Fe, New
Mexico. Does anyone know?

Thanks,
Mara & Ally


What is the difference between coastal bermuda and say california bermuda hay?

cindfilou
 

I thought that the bermuda hay was lower in general, in NSC
content ,that most others. What is the difference between coastal
bermuda and california bermuda? I am new to this and trying to figure
this out. My horse has not been diagnosed with anything yet. It all
started when I adopted 2 preganat PMU mares. My Perch mare kept om
foundering but I also went throguh farriers trying to find one that
would not lame them up. She would founder on and off so I sent her to
live with my friend in the desert that has soft sand and not the hard
dirt we have here.She has been fine at my friends house but she feeds
different than I used to. After I sent her off I started having
problems with her son, but I also was still searching for a good
farrier. I started reading and found the IR thing. I changed his diet
and found a farrier who put pads and shoes on him. Now he is in front
shoes (no pads)only. The farrier said he will try and remove them to
see how he will do without the shoes. My horse has not gone lame
since I started with the new farrier and diet. I am afraid to change
his diet in case that fixed it or maybe it was the farrier. I know I
need him tested but until then. I feed about 9 pounds bermuda and 1
pound oat/alfalfa soaked 2x a day. I also feed beet pulp
(soaked/drained/soaked/drained). I have to use up the hay in the barn
as I do not have anywhere else to store hay and I cant afford to
throw the oat and alfalfa away. I am paying 13 a bale. He was also
very tender footed. All of this coincided with the diet change so I
need to have the blood work done to test him. He has been doing
really well. I am not sure if I have found a good farrier or a good
diet for him. Anyones advice/suggestions would be greatly
appreciated. Also just to let you all know I am a computer dummy and
will probably put messages etc.. where they dont belong. Just let me
know. I just wanted to explain my situation. Thanks.


Re: Case History

Kathleen Hardy
 

I'm sorry - I am just a lurker here but... isn't there
a problem right now with the case histories (something
about the server maybe???). I'm not a computer guru so
really don't pay much attention but... I keep seeing
people having problems putting in their case histories
and being told to wait til its fixed and then in the
next breathe see posts telling people to put in their
case history??? I "could" be confusing this group with
a different one but I don't think so. Are the case
histories back up and functioning again?


Kassy Hardy
Springville, NY
khardy_13@...



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Re: ODTBC question

briarskingstonnet <briars@...>
 

Denise,it depends on your horse's status,but if you aren't needing to
be tight,tight with your balancing act,perhaps you could add beet pulp
to your mix?Keep in mind the profile for beet pulp and see what several
(dry) pounds would do to your numbers.
Or if there are other available timothy cubes or tim/alfalfa cubes
available with a decent profile(decent meaning one that wouldn't put
your diet in a bad place)maybe you coud add some of them?Just(haha,as
if it's EASY!) play with the numbers and see what you can come up with.
I have a line on some cubes called Select Cubes,which Angela knows
intimately,which have a low NSC(um I mean ESC+starch).They come from
Legal Products in Alberta.
It's like pulling hen's teeth,but I'm keeping on it.
Same reason as yours.

Lorna
Kingston,Ontario


Re: ODTBC question

jarrahbrearebreazebridie
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "horsecorrect"
<horsecorrect@...> wrote:

--- In EquineCushings@..., "briarskingstonnet" <briars@>
although I was hoping for some relief in feeding costs!
...Denise you can also suppliment a portion of cubes with non-molassed
beet pulp or r/s/r/ reg beet pulp to help off set costs.
Angela
jarrahbrearebreazebridie


Re: Questions????????

lindarollins38@...
 

Hi Joyce,
Could you please post a case history? It makes it so much easier for the gurus to answer questions if they have LOTS of information & background on your horse. It takes some time to put together, but it really is worth every second!
Linda


http://www.sportshorses.com/cases/rollinslinda.Peanut.htm


Questions????????

Ronald & Joyce Williams <dustoff_farm@...>
 

Hi folks,

A belated blessed holiday and a healthy New Year to all of you and your horses!

I have a couple of questions, please. Mare in question has not tested IR, she is on Thyrol-L as per vet. She has all the ear markings of becoming IR, so everything I do is to hopefully prevent her becoming IR in the future.


1. Is a magnesium supplement needed if local hay is not magnesium deficient?

2. I can't find the magnesium sulfate someone said they got in bulk at their local feed store. I did notice that my bag of Epsom Salts says "magnesium sulfate salts." Is this the same thing?

3. Is IR an inheritable trait or a disease/condition? I would love to breed this mare, but have been afraid to. We keep our horses for life, so I don't want to "create another potential problem." Would a pregnancy "push" her into IR or even Navicular? She is totally sound now, has been barefoot for years and I ride and drive her.

My goal is to keep her totally sound and pain free in the future. She is a 14.1, Morgan mare.

Thanks for all the information that goes through the list. I appreciate the opportunity to learn from all of you.

Joyce Williams


Re: ODTBC question

horsecorrect <horsecorrect@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "briarskingstonnet" <briars@...>
wrote:

It's Dry Weight,Denise.

Lorna
That's what I thought since water would not provide any calorie value
but the feed distributor seemed to think otherwise. Thanks for the
input...although I was hoping for some relief in feeding costs! :-)
Whatever "the girls" need, that's what they'll get. Thanks, Lorna, for
your response.


Re: ODTBC question

briarskingstonnet <briars@...>
 

It's Dry Weight,Denise.

Lorna


ODTBC question

horsecorrect <horsecorrect@...>
 

Is the amount fed per day of these cubes based on dry weight or after
the cubes have been soaked with water? To feed dry weight is running me
quickly to the poor house! If anyone has insight, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.
Denise


Re: Horse Rescue-Off-topic

Claire C. Cox-Wilson <shotgun.ranch@...>
 

This topic has been moved to the our off-topic sister list
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECPhotos/?yguid=8949199
post using email address: ECPhotos@...
Please join if you aren't already a member.

Claire from AZ
EC List Monitor/Moderator


--- In EquineCushings@..., "Jennifer"
<paintedstarstables@...> wrote:

Thanks for the link. This is another good yahoo group if you are in
the southen part of the states. FL, GA, AL, MS......
...............

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