Date   

Re: looking for old post

briarskingstonnet <briars@...>
 

Hi Pauline,

Did you try the Files section here?
Look under Blood Testing for IR and Cushings

Lorna


Re: I need help for my foundering horse...

Jean
 

Cindy, Thought I would quickly share my experience with you. When my
IR horse foundered 2 yrs ago, before I discovered this group, she was
stall bound and was given unlimited amounts of hay (because I didn'[t
know better and thats what everyone told me). Her insulin jumped from
199 to 308 in 2 months! Then I discovered this group and the OD
balanced cubes. Her insulin is now 6.9 and she is doing great. I
know it is hard to go against what your vet tells you-but the
experience on this group is real time and priceless. Just thought I'd
share.
Jean and Lady

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Cindy" <mustangs_drafts@...>
wrote:
Both of her vets said when she's getting soaked hay
she's losing a lot of nutrients and they want her to get a balance
for the time being.


Re: I need help for my foundering horse...

Joan and Dazzle
 

Hi Cindy,

Soaking hay can reduce the sugars up to 30%. The items that you lose
in soaked hay is not nearly as consequential as the high sugars
without soaking.

Most hays are high in iron. They are not "balanced" without testing
and adding minerals. Soaking hay gets rid of some of the stuff that
you don't want - excess sugars, rinsing off surface iron.

Our list is cutting edge. We balance hays using the standards set in
the Nutrient Requirements of the Horse.

One of the things that I've discovered is that you can't tell the
sugar and starch levels of a hay by looking to. The only way to know
is to test. Some hays that look "crappy", that you are sure are low
in sugar and starch are not. And some hays that are "lush" looking,
actually test low!

There are a number of things that will increase sugar levels in the
hay. Time of day of the hay cutting, length of time that the hay
laid on the field before baling, drought conditions, bright days and
cool nights. So a field that was cut from one year to the next can
vary in sugar content. Even hay cut before sunrise will test
differently than hay cut in mid-afternoon.

LMF is low in sugars and very high in iron. If your horse has
issues, we do not recommend that you use it. Many horses are iron
overloaded. That is one of the things that can drive IR.

So, if you want to horse horses to have a "balanced" diet, the only
way to get that is to balance it. To reduce sugar and starch, soak
it, since it's not balanced to begin with.

The difference between soaked and unsoaked hay can make a huge
difference to a laminitic horse!

Joan and Dazzle

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Cindy" <mustangs_drafts@...>
wrote:

She's on the LMF NSC feed which is low carb and only gets 16 oz -
2
times a day. Both of her vets said when she's getting soaked hay
she's losing a lot of nutrients and they want her to get a balance
for the time being.

Cindy


looking for old post

ponyjackpal <takarri@...>
 

Hi
I am looking for an old message & have spent too many hours searching.
Hopefully someone can steer me in the right direction.
It was regarding a conversation between someone having a problem with
their vet & testing for glucose/insulin & a comment was made that they
thought the vet was testing for a certain type of test that was wrong?
& costly, when all they had to do was request (?). It did generate a
bit of feedback- regarding problem vet(?). It was a few months ago & I
have given up looking for it-
I have access to Iddexx(Aus) & I was given similar info- but something
doesn't sit right.
Any ideas?
Cheers
Pauline & Jack(pony)


Re: Penny's getting a cold

Sandra Su
 

At 3:46 AM +0000 1/14/08, Amberlee wrote:
Honestly, I have been very lucky to have quiet
horses for those that have needed a rectal temp
done. I would suggest you have someone help you
by standing at her head, do not tie her.
I've taken Penny's temperature before,
and she's fine in the cross ties. She really
doesn't mind, and she stands very well in the
cross ties. How I do it is to cross tie her, then
when I insert the thermometer, I stay back there
and hold it till it's ready to come out. I've
done it before with the old-fashioned
thermometer, so the digital should be a piece of
cake.
My problem isn't how to take her
temperature, it's what to do with a new,
unfamiliar piece of equipment. I'm so
mechanically challenged, it's a wonder I can
drive a car. Sometimes I have trouble opening my
door with the key!

At 3:46 AM +0000 1/14/08, Rita Lockridge wrote:
It’s so small, a little lube (or spit) will be
plenty to get it in and you are off!
I use spit. It works just fine, it's
readily available, warm, it's free, and there's
less to handle than if I use a jar of vaseline or
whatever.

I usually don’t turn mine on until I’m in the
rectum, since it may take a reading too low
outside the body.
Thanks! Using a digital for the first
time, that's the kind of advice I need.
OK, I know this is off topic, so I won't post about it anymore.
--

Sandy Su
ssu@...


Re: I need help for my foundering horse...

Sandra Su
 

At 3:46 AM +0000 1/14/08, Cindy wrote:
Both of her vets said when she's getting soaked hay she's losing a
lot of nutrients and they want her to get a balance for the time
being.
I don't know how many nutrients are lost. Some people have
had their soaked hay analyzed. Has anyone had the soaked and unsoaked
hay analysis done on the same hay? How many nutrients are lost? Penny
gets unsoaked hay so it's not pertinent to my case, but this is an
interesting question.
--

Sandy Su
ssu@...


Re: Shubert - any ideas?

Ute <ute@...>
 

Hi Becci,
the way I understand it, even in the winter , on warmer days, the grass
can make sugar. In the summer time it is usually used up at night for
growth. In the winter or fall or spring, the night time temps can be
much colder, thereby stalling growth and the use of sugar. This means
that the sugars will remain in the grases and potentially even built up
more over time. That's why fall and spring grasses can be so dangerous,
along with supposedly "dead" grass in the winter!

Best wishes!!

Ute


Re: Hello from SC

Larson <seahorses3@...>
 

Ann, no curly coat, but severe, chronic laminitis for my Percheron, Blue. Email is seahorses3@...

I'm in more-snowy-than-sunny Maine, there are other draft people on the list as well, and those of us with "real" horses stick together! Please write and ask anything you want - no expert here, but the people in this group are fabulous and willing to offer ideas and expertise.

Carol and Blue in Maine

At 11:00 PM 1/13/2008, you wrote:
if anyone out there has a big draft with Lamintits or
the curly coat condition I would love to hear from you and pick your brain.

AA


Re: Bug sprays, my note

Carlynne Allbee
 

If you want a fly spray from natural products, look into Larry's Horse Spray....Yes, it really is Larry's and is available from a lot of sources. I have used it, love it, and since it is based on marigolds, ..well, anyway, I like it. It is meant for flying insects, and you spray it on the horse. you can use it on dogs also. One website that carries it says "Tried and true here at Long Riders Gear, we have found Larry’s to work well against our local ticks and other pests"

Active Ingredients: Citronella Oil (2.5%), Cedar Oil (1.5%), Pepperment Oil (0.54%), Rosemary Oil (0.3%), Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (0.68%), Potassium Sorbate (0.25%)

Inert Ingredients: Purified Water, White Mineral Oil, Xantham Gum, Cottonseed Oil, Soybean Oil.

It is concentrated so you dilute it with 5 parts water to 1 part Larry's.

While I have met Larry, and he is a real person, I don't own any stock in the company and won't even get a free bottle if you buy it. Just wanted to share something that might help you folks with our horses.

Carlynne Allbee and Patience


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Shubert - any ideas?

Joan and Dazzle
 

Hi Becci,

Sorry to hear that Shubert isn't as comfortable as he was. It's
amazing at how fast they can become sore and lose progress that
we've taken months to achieve.

My guess is the grass. "Dead" or "Almost Dead" grasses have some of
the highest NSC values. The plant needs to store up a ton of sugar
to make it through the winter and to re-grow in the spring.
Additionally, spring growth (or winter spurts)are also known to be
high in sugar.

My suggestion would be a sealed grazing muzzle. No grazing at all.

My next suggestion would be to get him back into boots since he's
obviously uncomfortable.

Have a read over at www.safergrass.org - they have pdf
under "articles" on "dead" grass. It's very enlightening.

With the backsliding, I'd probably want to soak the hay - just to
help him out and reduce the sugars.

My suggestion would be to re-focus on the diet to get it lower in
sugar and starch.

Joan and Dazzle

--- In EquineCushings@..., "becwachtel" <becwachtel@...>
wrote:

While Shubie's paddock is mostly dirt, I did see the slightest
green fuzz on top of the mud,
He had a slight backslides in the middle of Dec due to grass, even
though by all counts it
should have been dead.


Hello from SC

Anne M. Clarkson <katzpa92@...>
 

Hello, I am new to the list and just wanted to wave hello from sunny South
Carolina (we are recovering from a drought the hottest year since 1955).
I own 10 horses, six miniature horses, two draft, one Tennessee Walker and
one Spotted Saddle horse. My Percheron, a 20 year old we rescued and just
got, we believe has Cushings. Though she does not appear to have any
problem with her feet she has a terrible problem with a curly coat and
itching. Next month when the vet comes out we will have her tested and go
from there. Right now she is settled into a new home and loving the idea
that she in not on her way to the meat packing plant in Canada.

We will be posting some pictures and other information about her on the site
ASAP, in the mean time if anyone out there has a big draft with Lamintits or
the curly coat condition I would love to hear from you and pick your brain.

AA


Re: Blood pressure project - equipment suggestions?

BarTGila@...
 

Any of the cuff ones that work on AA batteries are OK.? What you need to do is take your pressure with the one at home a few times? and then have your doctors office, (this is free at most clinics) take it and see if the two times are near each other.? This will tell you if your macnine is accurate or not. This is what I have my clients do..............Kathi

-----Original Message-----
From: Carlynne Allbee <samwisebaggins@...>
To: Equine Cushings <equinecushings@...>
Sent: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 7:47 pm
Subject: [EquineCushings] Blood pressure project - equipment suggestions?






I am game for this project, and should be monitoring my own blood pressure (probably) so I am willing to invest in some equipment. From first aid classes I have taken, I know how to take it but I also know I can't hear well enough....so I am considering one of the automatic ones.

Looking over a website such as Walgrens Drug Store chain,....
I know the wrist ones don't work - I have friends that have given me stern warnings about them.
I did see several that run on AA batteries, which would be great when you are attaching the cuff to a horse's tail.

Any suggestions?

Carlynne Allbee and Patience

---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.







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More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com


Re: Complicated Founder Trim, Photos of Mel

Ute <ute@...>
 

I apologize - he shares this information freely with anyone and
since I quoted the sources as well I did not think it would be an
issue.

Ute

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Joan and Dazzle"
<horsies4luv@...> wrote:

Please do not post copyrighted material without the owner's
permission.

Joan and Dazzle

Pete Ramey has used the
remedy below to successfully treat such cases, because even if no
or
tenderness is present, the deeper clefts should be treated, just
in
case:

""Added 5-22-07

For years I've searched for the perfect thrush medicine. Most
products that kill the fungi and bacteria also kill living
tissue;
contributing to the problem.


Re: Diet of wild horses ?

Ute <ute@...>
 

Most predators are far and in between anymore in the Western US. If
predation was a big factor I believe we would not have to worry about
the high numbers of wild horses that prompts regular round-ups to
reduce the number of feral horses and I think we would also probably
see a higher percentage of laminitic wild/feral horses as they get
caught, or at least see some evidence in their hooves.

If wild /feral horses also had more laminitis/founder issues, I think
that would also naturally reduce their number more.

I believe that the life span in feral horses is primarily affected by
how many babies a mare has had for example, how long their teeth last
for chewing and any traumatic injuries that may occur.

Also, Pete Ramey mentions in his DVDs that wild horses are not known
to founder. In addition, there's a documented story of a stallion who
had a break in one of his front legs. He actually healed completely
and had to be caught to get the hoof trimmed on the leg that was
broken beore, since he had not used it normally. Yet Barbaro
foundered with all the medical support he could possibly get.

Ute



--- In EquineCushings@..., "Joan and Dazzle"
<horsies4luv@...> wrote:

Maybe the reason that we don't see very many wild horses with
laminitis is because when they get it, they get eaten....

Just a thought.

Joan and Dazzle


Well I have heard of wild horses un their mid twenties and in
addition
I also think that the quality of life is more important to any
critter
than the quantity.


Blood pressure project - equipment suggestions?

Carlynne Allbee
 

I am game for this project, and should be monitoring my own blood pressure (probably) so I am willing to invest in some equipment. From first aid classes I have taken, I know how to take it but I also know I can't hear well enough....so I am considering one of the automatic ones.

Looking over a website such as Walgrens Drug Store chain,....
I know the wrist ones don't work - I have friends that have given me stern warnings about them.
I did see several that run on AA batteries, which would be great when you are attaching the cuff to a horse's tail.

Any suggestions?

Carlynne Allbee and Patience


---------------------------------
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.


Re: Blue Seal Carbguard and Triple Crown Low Starch

lynngs@...
 

I add water to all feed.

Keep in mind that a natural diet consists of plant material, which is about 95% water.

I think adding water to feed is a good thing.

Martha Stewart

Just kidding, (about the name not the water)
Lynn Swearingen


Re: Complicated Founder Trim, Photos of Mel

Joan and Dazzle
 

Please do not post copyrighted material without the owner's permission.

Joan and Dazzle

Pete Ramey has used the
remedy below to successfully treat such cases, because even if no or
tenderness is present, the deeper clefts should be treated, just in
case:

""Added 5-22-07

For years I've searched for the perfect thrush medicine. Most
products that kill the fungi and bacteria also kill living tissue;
contributing to the problem.


Re: Diet of wild horses ?

Joan and Dazzle
 

Maybe the reason that we don't see very many wild horses with
laminitis is because when they get it, they get eaten....

Just a thought.

Joan and Dazzle


Well I have heard of wild horses un their mid twenties and in
addition
I also think that the quality of life is more important to any
critter
than the quantity.


Re: Sleep deprivation, Was: Other matters

Ute <ute@...>
 

This may be mostly due to a body's stress response. Constant stress
can cause chronically elevated glucose levels in the blood to support
a perceived fight or flight response that in our modern lives often
never comes. If it did, it would burn off the excess sugar there to
be utilized for energy. So the sugar excess remains and needs to be
dealt with by the body with the help of insulin. This may also be a
contributing factor of IR, along with a diet that is too high in
NSCs.

Sleep deprivation certainly increases stress levels in individuals
who will try to function as normally as possible during the day.

DR Thomas has written some very interesting articels on this subject
that were published in the Natural Horse and are available to read on
his website: http://www.forloveofthehorse.com/misslink.php

Ute


--- In EquineCushings@..., J Amick <happyday23@...> wrote:

Just recently I read an article about the outbreak of type 2
diabetes
in humans being in
astronomical numbers and this was brought on by sleep
deprivation.
Well guess what?
Your reading a post from one! All along I've encouraged that
the
lyme disease
was creating many other problems like the IR in our horses.
Till the
day I die I will
say this, as I saw first hand what the lyme can do to push horses
into
Cushings, IR and
iron overload, and most of these created laminitis.
I use sawdust and pine shavings in my stalls and I noted years
ago of
who laid down flat out to get restful sleep, and who just stood
up to
"sleep". The
shavings told the story.
Judy-Pa

jtb14789 wrote:

My Cushings/IR horse developed this sleep deprivation problem
when he
contracted Lyme. The vet had no clue what was wrong with him. I
came
across the Equus article & it answered a lot of questions I had.

Maybe not directly related to Cushings/IR, but we do seem to have
a
significant number of members on the board who's horses
subsequently
develop Lyme.





-------------------------------------------------------------------
-----







Re: Penny's getting a cold

Wendy Golding
 

Another thought - when I hold the meter in between thumb and finger, I tend
to put my other fingers against his butt as a kind of leverage against the
meter being sucked in. It was just a natural way to hold it.



Wendy



_____

Subject: Re: [EquineCushings] Re: Penny's getting a cold

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