Date   

Re: looking for old post( a bit long)

ponyjackpal <takarri@...>
 

Australia is to contact your local Kentucky Equine Research
representative (Toll Free : 1800 772 198 or Website www "dot"
ker "dot" com You collect your hay sample and send to them and they
have arrangement with Equi-Analytical in USA, they send it off for
you and then contact you with results all for the very low price of
$50 Australian dollars. Ask for the trainer #603 profile.
The WA rep's name is Cilla Kuiper.
Hope this helps.
Angela
jarrahbrearebreazebridie
thank you
]have sent hay off- got a KER rep in Victoria that organised all the
paperwork & permits for me. They could not have been more helpful 7
looking forward to results.
will follow up bloods in WA if I have no lucj
Cheers
Pauline & Jack


Re: pergolide study

brearebreazybridie
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "ponyjackpal" <takarri@...>
wrote:
Pauline
Ian who is a pharmacist/chemist also I created a document that is in
the "Files" section
of the group called "Pergolide Forms and Stability" that has a lot
more information on the pros and cons of the various forms of this
medication. Here is a link to the page with the file-
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/Drugs%2C%
20Pergolide%2C%&#92;20Cushings%20Disease%20Treatments/or
http://tinyurl.com/2alwqb
or type in Ian Hudgings Pergolide and this should bring the information
up in the messages.

Angela
jarrahbrearebreazebridie


Re: pergolide study

brearebreazybridie
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "ponyjackpal" <takarri@...>
wrote:

Hi Pauline
our pergolide has a "syrup" base of now I am going to question- & has
a longish (6mths) use by date.
Cause for concern?
Yes, two weeks is the standard as it loses its strenght after that. Can
you purchase the powdered this is 6 months, or the tabs. Check the
files for who sells Pergolide. Also type in for information on
Pergolide. Ian has written some wonderful articles on this exact
concern. Also if I.R. a concern syrup is not a good choice and very
exspensive in comaprison to the powdered beside expiry date issues.
Angela
jarrahbrearebreazebridie


Re: looking for old post( a bit long)

brearebreazybridie
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "ponyjackpal" <takarri@...>
wrote:

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Kathleen Gustafson"
<katmando@> wrote:
---
Could be:

Glucose tolerance test - instead get glucose and insulin from the
same
draw
vets to ring the lab as the pathologists bamboozled me- & she was
told that testing for insulin resistance ( via pathologist from
Iddexx labs - Oz) said that it is a very involved test- they've
never done it & it would be costly & the accuracy isn't good. They
would need blood every 15 mins for 3 hours. Mind you this was the
dog protocol - which we are well adversed to, & they didn't have one
for horses but said it was the same?- This can't be right. I must
not be asking correctly for what I want. Is someone able to put
words into my mouth?
Jack is not IR as far as I am aware & after studyong these files
for
so long, just about every horse I see now has "issues"- but I would
like to know where we stand
Regarding ACTH stimulation testing- I read in our files that it
requires a single blood draw- yet to do one here it requires 2
blood draws - take the first blood- inject a product called
Synacthen & then take another blood 1 hour after.- Again a dog
protocol- but was told that this is what is done in horses or the
low dose dex test- which they do have a horse protocol for- there is
NO way I am going there..
I do have a horse vet from another practice who is right into this
& gave her last lecture on Cushings- however, she has been away &
I'd rather ask dumb questions to you guys( no one can see me) & then
sound confident when I discuss it with colleagues!!

much thanks
pauline & jack
Maybe contact Dr Monique Robinson BVMS (Hons)
edgefarm @ aapt . net . au (take the spaces out!)
She states she only has information on WA but expect the other states
would be similar.There are 2 laboratories in WA, Vetpath and Murdoch
University.They can test endogenous ACTH, glucose, insulin, throid
panels and triglycerides.
No Australian lab that can test iron panels as yet. I am looking into
whether this may be possible via USA (c/- Vetpath labs) and am
working with the pathologist there to this end. All vets in WA can
send blood to Vetpath Laboratories. If anyone has trouble in WA they
can contact me and I will arrange blood testing for them via Vetpath.
Hay testing / Feed testing in general is not done alot yet in
Australia.Only 1 lab in NSW (University of New England) can test NSC
levels. They have to run these in single batches... the cost is
phenomenal!!. It is suggested the best way to get hay tested here in
Australia is to contact your local Kentucky Equine Research
representative (Toll Free : 1800 772 198 or Website www "dot"
ker "dot" com You collect your hay sample and send to them and they
have arrangement with Equi-Analytical in USA, they send it off for
you and then contact you with results all for the very low price of
$50 Australian dollars. Ask for the trainer #603 profile.
The WA rep's name is Cilla Kuiper.
Hope this helps.
Angela
jarrahbrearebreazebridie


pergolide study

ponyjackpal <takarri@...>
 

HI again
Now I've gone into overdrive with reading files & came across this
http://www.ranvet.com.au/cushings.htm
This is the place that is supplying my pergolide at present-have only
just found it - & of course, as is my true nature haven't read through
it thoroughly,but at the mention of dst- panicked.
our pergolide has a "syrup" base of now I am going to question- & has a
longish (6mths) use by date.
Cause for concern?
Cheers
Pauline & Jack


Re: Shredded Beet Pulp without molasses

rv6@...
 

A feed store in Oroville, Ca. where I live, carries Nutrena brand beet pulp without molases--Have you called Nutrena?.

Cathy


Re: looking for old post( a bit long)

ponyjackpal <takarri@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Kathleen Gustafson"
<katmando@...> wrote:
---
Could be:

Glucose tolerance test - instead get glucose and insulin from the
same
draw

Dexamethazone suppression test - instead get ACTH

Cortisol - instead get ACTH

Ring any bells?

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
HI
thanks to all for info- almost rings a bell. But creates more
questions.
I am a vet nurse of too many years- but deal with "smallies" &
reptiles- & I understand the concept...but.....I got one of our nice
vets to ring the lab as the pathologists bamboozled me- & she was
told that testing for insulin resistance ( via pathologist from
Iddexx labs - Oz) said that it is a very involved test- they've never
done it & it would be costly & the accuracy isn't good. They would
need blood every 15 mins for 3 hours. Mind you this was the dog
protocol - which we are well adversed to, & they didn't have one for
horses but said it was the same?- This can't be right. I must not be
asking correctly for what I want. Is someone able to put words into
my mouth?
Jack is not IR as far as I am aware & after studyong these files for
so long, just about every horse I see now has "issues"- but I would
like to know where we stand
Regarding ACTH stimulation testing- I read in our files that it
requires a single blood draw- yet to do one here it requires 2 blood
draws - take the first blood- inject a product called Synacthen &
then take another blood 1 hour after.- Again a dog protocol- but was
told that this is what is done in horses or the low dose dex test-
which they do have a horse protocol for- there is NO way I am going
there..
I do have a horse vet from another practice who is right into this &
gave her last lecture on Cushings- however, she has been away & I'd
rather ask dumb questions to you guys( no one can see me) & then
sound confident when I discuss it with colleagues!!

much thanks
pauline & jack


Re: Shredded Beet Pulp without molasses

PCfarm <pecciefarm@...>
 

Ute, some of us have found that if our feed store can get it with molasses, their supplier can get it for them without molasses. Retailers just don't like to carry it until they have a market for it. You may have to become a pest, beg, whine, whatever. If you can get together with others in your area who want it the store my go ahead and order it "one time" just to see if it sells. Or, if you can afford it and have enough storage space, have them special-order a whole pallet of bags for you--assuming your horse(s) will eat it, of course.
Linda in NC

I can get pelleted without molasses here, but so far not the shredded
kind, which I would prefer.The shredded variety available here is
doused with molasses.

Ute


Re: Evitex AND Pergolide? REPOST

Abby Nemec
 

mannequin2d wrote:

to price? Would anyone be able to advise me why the liquid would be
SO
much more expensive? Thank you, Wendy.

I do believe the liquid is a standardized extract, but I'm not sure. At the very least I'm sure it's mostly cost of processing, packaging, marketing. Happens with everything - the smaller the operation & market, the greater the markup. Also the more people who have their hands on something, the more it costs.

Go from raw herb to standardized extract, bottle it, ship it to the tack shop or catalog warehouse, ship it to you ... everyone needs to make a little something (usually a minimum of 30% for each stop en route) to pay Uncle Sam and the people who open the boxes.

-Abby



--
**************************
Abby Bloxsom
www.advantedgeconsulting.com


Re: Can you please look at my photo album?

Abby Nemec
 

Cindy L. McGinley wrote:
"luckycharmfarm" <LuckyCharmFarm@...> asked:

i just wonder about that stance? the rounded rear end and tucked in?
is that a laminitis stance or am i just paranoid (a little knowlege
is a bad thing!).
I went and looked again because I thought in the first pictures she wasn't standing that way, and I wasn't nuts after all: it doesn't look to me that she was standing that way in the pictures where she's dry (or the first wet picture). I thought she was standing like that because she was cold from being wet (and her hooves are long). She does look quite post-legged behind, which combined with the length of hoof may be contributing to that under stance.
I think Cindy's right - I do think that stance is related to the shape of her hind feet. She is a little steep in the croup and straight in the hind leg, so she does stand a little under herself behind with her long toes behind. Already being steep/straight behind gives her no place to go w/a long toe - she has to tuck under. Then, she gets wet & a little "goosey" & ends up standing all way under herself. Those feet need some serious work, but she looks happy & in good flesh.


-Abby



--
**************************
Abby Bloxsom
www.advantedgeconsulting.com


Re: Glucosamine, Was: is this diet ok

Erin R. <figure1789@...>
 

After reading archived posts, it seemed to me that a lot of people were
giving their horses "Equi-Flex," because it contained only the chondroiten
(sp.?) sulfate. Glucosamine is/was to be avoided.

I just switched to the Equi-flex, and was feeding the Corta- Flex pellets.
But the pellets have some no- no's in them, like yucca, msm, alfalfa and I
think- molasses. (Could be wrong on the molasses.)

I've been interested in these joint supps. for years. I've read articles
which state that either the glucosamine sulfate or chondroiten sulfate are
the preferred forms given. Just which one of them is better than the other
is still debated.

Erin and Nick, Ohio

equi- flex link
http://www.smartpakequine.com/ProductClass.aspx?productClassId=2471&cm_mmc=Google-_-Supplements-_-Joint-_-Equi-Flex


Re: Harry's feet

Abby Nemec
 

jarrahbrearebreazebridie wrote:
No rotation on Harry's feet? Hopefully Lin will get those pics up soon.

Yah a little rotation, a little laminar separation, but without getting the toes back lowering the heels will be excruciating. Worst problem is long toes, 2nd worst problem thin soles. If the soles can be relieved & toes brought back, heels can come down ... but with soles that thin I wouldn't want to have heels down without pictures.

cc-ing this to the list since it's a very pertinent query.

-A


--
**************************
Abby Bloxsom
www.advantedgeconsulting.com


Re: HELP Dr.K, Amberlee, Harrys x-rays

Abby Nemec
 

jarrahbrearebreazebridie wrote:
Dr. K, Amberlee,Hoof gurus.
Would you please take a look at Harrys x-rays for Linda.
Harry's xrays are not too bad but his soles are pretty thin & lowering his heels - while necessary - might make him tender.

I would like to see photos of Harry's feet if possible before I comment too much more - the outside of the foot has a lot to say about what to expect when he's trimmed.

The important thing I think really has to be getting his toes back. The toes of his hooves extends way out beyond the tip of his coffin bone, so it will probably make him a lot more comfortable if his breakover is brought back quite a ways at the toe.

With short feet like this you might find it helpful to try using hoof casts (I've been on a bit of a roll with these lately!) to get some sole relief. The casts support the outside of the foot pretty well so you can put the foot on a shoe with the cast over it and get protection/support WITH sole relief - a good deal! Equicast is available from

Warwick Bloomfield of Bracknell
http://www.bfsequine.com/bfsequine/ContactUs.htm

Mike Taylor of Romford, Essex
mike@...


Feet like Harry's have been rehabilitated successfully with bare feet, boots, pea gravel, etc. as well.

When you have a chance to get some hoof photos up let us know & we can take a look & see what else we might be able to tell from there.

-Abby


--
**************************
Abby Bloxsom
www.advantedgeconsulting.com


BP in the washing machine

laviniamfiscaletti <dnlf@...>
 

I just started trying the BP in the wash trick and it works great!
However, if you buy the pillow protectors be careful that they don't
have a plastic membrane inside them as this doesn't allow the BP to
rinse well. I got 2 cases that had this membrane (no indication on the
package) mixed in with a bunch that didn't have it. Had to re-rinse the
BP a second time.

Lavinia, George and Nappi


updated George's hoof pics

laviniamfiscaletti <dnlf@...>
 

The good news is that I've managed to post the newest hoof pics, taken
just after I trimmed him Sunday. Took toes back and heels down-probably
not enough but don't want to go too far too fast. If the hoof gurus get
a chance, could you give me some input? Pics are under George in EC
Photos. Sorry, the bad news is I have no idea how to create a link :(

Lavinia, George and Nappi


Re: ODTB in upstate NY?

Abby Nemec
 

Suzanne Clothier wrote:

So, anyone on this list who lives in the Albany area? Or Cobleskill? Or Oneonta? Saratoga?? and knows where we can buy these darn cubes?

Winsted Feed & Supply
Winsted CT
860 379 0107

They're probably about 2 hours from you but carry the cubes & might be able to bring in a pallet or partial pallet on special order if you could coordinate pickup close to when they come in. They have a very small warehouse & have to have a $500 order from the cubes distributor.

-Abby

--
**************************
Abby Bloxsom
www.advantedgeconsulting.com


Re: Coastal Blend and West Coast Hay

Anne M. Clarkson <katzpa92@...>
 

Wow, how big are those bales? I mean the hay bales are about four feet long
and about two feet by two feet square on the the ends. They may weight in
at twenty or thirty pounds and are of coastal hay, low in sugar high in bulk
We have to supplement with alf if we want alf.

AA

-------Original Message-------

From: papballou
Date: 01/14/08 19:47:35
To: EquineCushings@...
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: Coastal Blend and West Coast Hay

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Anne M. Clarkson"
<katzpa92@...> wrote:

What size are your bales? Do you mean square bales or round bales at
$20.25
because our round bales are $40.00 a bale and the square bales are
only $7
50 a bale.
Well, haven't seen a round bale around here - a bale as I refer to it
is square, well, rectangle and about 110 - 120 pounds or so. When I
used the word *stick*, I meant that a few people stick to feeding only
alf - it's about $17 a bale.

Linda in NV



***PLEASE BE SURE TO REMOVE UNNECESSARY DUPLICATED MATERIAL FROM THE MESSAGE
YOU ARE REPLYING TO BEFORE YOU HIT SEND -- ONLY LEAVE ENOUGH SO YOUR REPLY
IS UNDERSTOOD***

Shortcut URL to this page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/messages/?expand=1

All posts copyrighted the year posted, all rights reserved to the author of
the post and list owner. Posts may NOT be copied or intellectual property
used elsewhere without written permission of the author and/or list owner.

Post message: EquineCushings@...
Subscribe: EquineCushings-subscribe@...
Unsubscribe: EquineCushings-unsubscribe@...
List owner: EquineCushings-owner@...

Off Topic but horse discussion list: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECPhotos/
Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Diet of wild horses ?

aptly_asked <aptly_asked@...>
 

Ute,

You can't even begin to compare a feral / wild horse with that of a Thoroughbred - doing so isn't the wisest thing in the world. There are plenty of mechanical differences as well as physiological ones. It's like comparing a miniature horse to a shire.

Paul.

Ute wrote:

Also, Pete Ramey mentions in his DVDs that wild horses are not known to founder. In addition, there's a documented story of a stallion who had a break in one of his front legs. He actually healed completely and had to be caught to get the hoof trimmed on the leg that was broken beore, since he had not used it normally. Yet Barbaro foundered with all the medical support he could possibly get.
Ute


Re: Coastal Blend and West Coast Hay

papballou <PapBallou@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Anne M. Clarkson"
<katzpa92@...> wrote:

What size are your bales? Do you mean square bales or round bales at
$20.25
because our round bales are $40.00 a bale and the square bales are
only $7
50 a bale.
Well, haven't seen a round bale around here - a bale as I refer to it
is square, well, rectangle and about 110 - 120 pounds or so. When I
used the word *stick*, I meant that a few people stick to feeding only
alf - it's about $17 a bale.

Linda in NV


Re: Complicated Founder Trim, Photos of Mel

John Stewart
 

Hello Eva again,

Concerns about methods of new farrier:

I don't think that cutting a notch between the heel and frog can do anything. I have heard that some people will "open" the heel, which

involves cutting away the horn right at the heels. The effect of this is to remove the direct connection between the hoof wall at the heel and the bar.

The intention is that the wall, not restricted by its connection to the bar, will be able to expand outwards.

The faint vertical lines of blood in the white line at the toe are most likely to have followed a laminitis episode, but this would usually not be

evident for 4 - 6weeks after. This would coincide with the change in angle seen near the top of the hoof wall, although this does not seem to fit into

the timescale of her lameness.

Scooping the sole is usually not a good idea because, in a chronic laminitic, the tip of the pedal bone will often be resting on the sole and

the sole will often be thinner than it should be. If there is sufficient sole then it can be thinned. The farrier would have to judge this by

palpation (or x rays).

Cutting a groove in the hoof wall.

The extreme of this is a hoof wall resection, removing the dorsal hoof wall, exposing the separated laminae and taking pressure off the new growth. This

has gone out of fashion.

Chris Pollitt at the last Laminitis Conference in Florida recently, proposed that the horn growth from distorted coronary papillae, because it could not

grow down as it should, actually pushed the pedal bone away from the hoof wall. some people are now removing a section of the separated wall near the

top of the front wall. It sounds as though your farrier's grooving is trying to do this in a similar, but less dramatic, way.

I wouldn't personally suggest doing this, but I do not think that it would do any harm. I don't happen to agree with this Dr Pollitt idea.

I will have a go at the TRIM Questions tomorrow.

John

180501 - 180520 of 282361