Judy, I'm also trying to figure out if the Easyboot Epic or the Soft-
Ride would be better... The gel inserts that come with the Soft-Rides
have a built up frog pad on them. How would this be different than just
using the frog pads taped to the horses foot? Lara

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Joan and Dazzle"
<horsies4luv@...> wrote:

Hi Sue,

If this were Dazzle, I'd start her on pergolide. It's the low time of
year and in August or Sept, the ACTH will just get higher.

Take a deep breath. You're lucky you caught it before he had symptoms.
many times, the first symptom is laminitis.

Please post the insulin levels when you get it. Cornell's normal (high
end) is full blown insulin resistance.

Thanks Joan - yeah, I was hoping I would not be dealing with this - it
scares me to make diet changes with him. His insulin was 20 (Cornell
lists 10 - 40 normal range). I have researched so much on the list
over the past three years regarding insulin resistance for Digger (but
he is not Cushings) now have to deal with Roanie being Cushings but
not IR (right now). He needs grass and grain to keep his weight on
right now.

Sue

no. I have one supplier (very good man) and I bought over 200 bales of
orchard grass hay (first cutting) and not even a puff of dust from any of the
bales. It is hard to find a good, reputable hayman. Thank God I finally found
one, it took years!!

Michelle L. Chambers



**************Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family
favorites at AOL Food.
(http://food.aol.com/dinner-tonight?NCID=aolfod00030000000001)

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Sally Hugg" <barehoof@...> wrote:

Hi Lara -
Yes - it's really tough to be "something for everyone", so these
regional mixes are just the best we can do for the "average" hay and

HMMMM..... Well my custom mix looks pretty simple...as copied below, I
do not have any hay left that this was balanced to and am using it now
with whatever they are being fed... more exact balancing will not be
in the picture any more -- horses are in a full care facility but
would like to get them as close to balanced as possible now that I
know too much and cant but be bothered that they arent getting an
exact balance...

this mix is in a flax base and fed with alfalfa pellets and Beet pulp
and iodized salt ....would it continue to be an okay supplement with
the average Eastern OR. hay... am getting out my analysis now to do a
comparasin..and see if i can be smart enough to get an average mineral
content.

Mainly asking for the horse we are now working with at the barn that
was recently diagnosed IR/laminitis wanting to get him on a 'balanced'
program ASAP hay is being soaked and Mid valley being looked into...


ingredients copper...............125mg
Zinc...................400mg
selenium...........2.0mg
Vit E.................20000IU
Julie

Maria, when Especial first went really lame just prior to him
penetrating both front coffin bones due to thin sole, I hauled him to
Pgh, PA to a special vet and had him nerve blocked, xrayed, and he
also put the "frog" pads on Es. This was a big no no..... The
elevation of using those "frog" pads is what did Es in and he then
penetrated completely thru. What my fella really needed was total
sole support that encased the entire foot bottom, not just frog
support.... Follow?

I paid a huge vet bill only to have made my gelding worse. Wish I
would have had the Soft Ride boots with the gel inserts then, and I
would have saved a tremendous amt of $$$$, time, and stress on the
horse. Stay away from "frog" support. You need the entire foot
bottom supported.
Judy-PA

Last fall I had Amber's insulin and glucose tested and her G:I ratio
was 10.14. But when I went to the new "IR Calculator" and used the
RISQI part of the calculator her insulin came out as compensated. This
spring she did test compensated both G:I ratio and RISQI. My question
is which is more accurate? If I knew she was compensated in the fall I
would have tightened up her diet then.

Jean, Amber, Buster and Nikki

Hi Lara -
Yes - it's really tough to be "something for everyone", so these
regional mixes are just the best we can do for the "average" hay and
horse. You can try simply increasing the dosage to bring up the copper
and zinc levels, but that will of course increase your selenium just a
bit. For the record, CA Trace does contain 2 mg of iodine per serving.

Sally

"Lara" <larhae71@...> wrote:
After comparing CA Trace Plus and AR Reg Mix to my custom mix it seems
that mine has a bit higher levels of Copper and Zinc; plus mine does
have Magnesium, Phosphorus, and Iodine where the other's do not. Mine
has 10mg Biotin per 10lbs hay fed. The Selenium is the same as both
other supplements...

Hello Sally, After comparing CA Trace Plus and AR Reg Mix to my custom
mix it seems that mine has a bit higher levels of Copper and Zinc; plus
mine does have Magnesium, Phosphorus, and Iodine where the other's do
not. Mine has 10mg Biotin per 10lbs hay fed. The Selenium is the same
as both other supplements...

It would be nice to just walk into a local feed store that sells
Eastern WA grass hay and buy a supplement off the shelf for the region
where the hay comes from - novel concept! Lara

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Sally Hugg" <barehoof@...>
wrote:

I'm the person who sells the CA Trace.
It would be wonderful if someone would come up with a
pacific northwest regional mix that was available for purchase.

Hi Lara -

I'm the person who sells the CA Trace. It was originally something I
put together 4 years ago for my own horses, based on the mineral
balancing I learned to do on this list. Some of my friends started
using it and one thing lead to another. I am a full time (trying to
cut back to part time) barefoot trimmer and make the product
available to my clients and anyone else who wants to use it. I don't
advertise, but it's available through my modest hoof care website
http://bare-hooftrim.com/ca_trace_plus.htm

There is a link where you can read the anlaysis http://bare-
hooftrim.com/analysis.htm

Since the soil where much of the California hay is grown is high in
magnesium, there is seldom a magnesium deficiency in the hay grown
around northern California. Therefore, you might need to add
supplemental magnesium oxide for your hay. Manganese is highly
variable, so there is none in the formula.

These regional mixes are not a substitute for balancing to your
actual hay analysis, but seems to work better than buying something
off the shelf. It would be wonderful if someone would come up with a
pacific northwest regional mix that was available for purchase.

If you have questions, just send me an e-mail or call the number on
the homepage of my website.

Sally

"Lara" <larhae71@...> wrote:

Here's the info on CA Trace Plus...
http://bare-hooftrim.com/ca_trace_plus.htm


Joan and Dazzle

Thanks Mandy, actually I have talked to Amberlee and Dr.K about my
mare. However, the subject of worming never came up... Lara

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Mandy Woods"
<bittersweetfarm@...> wrote:

I hope Amberlee or Dr. K respond to this - And you need to talk to
Amberlee about your pregnant mare!!
Mandy and Asher in VA

Lara,
I wish I had studied 'wormology'! If your horses are on a drylot they are
not reinfecting themselves on worm larva on the grass. If you've done
ivermectin on all three at the same time and you pick up all the manure in
the lot everyday, I dont see why you'd need to worm so often. I read many
years ago that Cornell did a study on dormant pastures - 40 years dormant -
and they still found worm larva. So that says freezing and heat doesn't
kill all of them. Your hay fields should not be grazed. The hay I buy is
"clean" meaning no animals allowed to graze the fields. If we all just use
ivermectin, eventually the horses will become resistant to that too. I hope
Amberlee or Dr. K respond to this - And you need to talk to Amberlee
about your pregnant mare!!
Mandy and Asher in VA
I use CA Trace - its great - contact Sally Hugg at barefoot@...

I really can spell, I meant "logical"... :) Lara

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Lara" <larhae71@...> wrote:

Now, that does not seem logicle to me?

Living in Western WA the climate here does not have extreme season
changes like the East Coast used to have (at least when I lived in PA
as a little girl), not so sure now...

I only have 2-3 horses at a time and they're at home and not exposed to
different horses. We have a 3 acre pasture that's established but not
overgrazed, however, they're currently on the dry lot. All pretty
healthy except my possible IR pregnant mare that just foundered for the
second time!

My vet tells me I can just use Ivermectin since there is no resistance
to it and that every eight weeks is more than sufficient given my
situation... Now, that does not seem logicle to me?

Lara

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Mandy Woods"
<bittersweetfarm@...> wrote:

Lara,
There are variables to answering this like where you live, is the
pasture 'virgin' or established, how large is the pasture, how many
horses are on it, are the horses healthy etc. I think I would talk to
your vet about advising you for your area. Mandy and Asher in VA

Hi folks, wonder if you could advise me, my 11 yr old gelding has had
reacurring bouts of laminitis through out the last year, he does not
have any classic signs of cushings and because of this my vet is not
willing to do a test for insulin intollerance, he said the results are
not acurate and often inconclussive, and the other test which he would
do could induce laminitis. However he does not have any answers as to
how the horse is getting lami. At the moment he is off grass, cerals,
course mixes.in fact he he is just getting soaked hay but I am
terrified he gets another bout. Am I over reacting? would he have some
other symptoms if he had cushings/insulin intollerance. Or is this
just a typical case of toxic laminitis that can take a long time if
ever to get over (as the vet says) was interested in the theory of the
asprin as he made the best progress in the whole year after I gave him
a course of asprin for the first time.
Would really appreciate your opinions
Cathy

Joan, where do you get CA Trace, or who makes it? I would like to
compare it to my custom mix... Lara

Hi Sue,

If this were Dazzle, I'd start her on pergolide. It's the low time of
year and in August or Sept, the ACTH will just get higher.

Take a deep breath. You're lucky you caught it before he had symptoms.
many times, the first symptom is laminitis.

Please post the insulin levels when you get it. Cornell's normal (high
end) is full blown insulin resistance.

Joan and Dazzle

Dr.Kellon is helping me with a plan for this, worming every three weeks and then a fecal count and 8 week worming intervals depending on the fecal count.

I LOVE THIS LIST!!!!!!!!!


Brynn
Macho's gramma (that is REALLY trying to do her best)

It is here! Jerral with Triple Crown just called. The truck has arrived and the bags are ready to go out to our feedstores.
So if you have been waiting for the ODTB cubes, call your feed man now and request they get them on their next order from Evergreen Mills. Be sure you ask for the Timothy Balance cubes with a lavendar label. It is not packaged in a Triple Crown bag.
Kathy Saucier

Should I be calling the vet? Stomach perforation...what should I do? Are there mild forms of this because everything I searched on was horrible?

Brynn
Macho's gramma