Date   

Tested grass hay results - what do you all think?

familyjudith <jfamily@...>
 

Everyone: I am offered some tested grass hay. Equi-Analytical Lab
results state that the (as sampled) percentages are as follows:
ESC is 7.0,
starch 1.5,
crude Protein 10.8,
est. Lysine .37
ADF 33.9
NDF 58.4
NFC 14.0
calcium .43
Phosphorus .26

% moisture 8.4
% dry Matter 91.6

The sugar and starch look good to me. I am not certain about the
others. Any other thoughts out there before I buy???
Thanks, Judi and Tawny


Re: Urgent-ish questions - Vinegar

Ellen Smith <MineSafety@...>
 

We use vinegar on our organic farm to kill weeds, grass, etc. It does
make the soil acidic -- just keep that in mind for long term. You will
need to use lime to reverese results and regrow grass in the future.

-- Ellen Smith
Mendon NY


Slightly off subject with Hypothyroid

Ellen Smith <MineSafety@...>
 

Dr. Kellon et. al,
Upon the advice of Dr. Kellon, I had my very porky Pinto (Buddy)
tested for IR/cushings per your advice. (I was very worried about
laminitis) His numbers came in today and are dead-on normal range
according to my vet (Genessee Valley Equine Clinic). My concerns
started last winter (when we were dealing with Mr. Triton's cushings
and IR issues) and I noticed that my Pinto was gaining weight and was
SO SLOW on the trail and huffing and puffing. By this spring he was
about 150 pounds over weight. Blood tests from 8 weeks ago indicated
hypothyroid and he was put on Thyro-L. So, I've gotten his weight
down to 1,080 lbs with the medication and daily excercise (advice
read on this board) He is 15 hands and still about 60 pounds
overweight -- although looks much better than before. He only
receives 1 pound of Nutrena Lite Balance per day divided into two
measley feedings with his supplements and medication added in.
However, over the last 4 weeks we have reached a plateau with weight
loss (at a stand-still at 1,080) Should I try the cushings diet with
rinsed hay or keep trying to lose wieght through excercise? He is on
minimal pasture. I know this is not a cushings/IR issue, but I also
know that this board is THE BEST when it comes to nutritional advice.
Red flags were raised when I read conflicting reports about treating
for hypothyroid and the possibility of heart damage from the thyroid
medication. eek. Advice is alway appreciated from any of you.
-- Ellen Smith, Mendon, NY


Re: hives

echo sharkey <hubbahubba311@...>
 

My IR mare gets hive-like reactions to some gnat bites and bee stings too.  Normal doses of horse antihistamines and Benadryl gel on the spots themselves work for her.  I have not had to use these more than a day or three.  Her chin and chest seem to be  favorite targets for the ones she reacts to.




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Re: emergency departure pending: some feeding questions

jvoutdoorz <jvining@...>
 

Jeanette,


If the hay is
well dried and stored with good ventilation, it should be good for
days. After all, hay was cut, cured and stacked loose long before it
was baled ;-)
Thanks so much for the response. My hay is spread over fences and
drying in the sun. Thankfully we have low humidity and very long days
right now. I'll move it into the garage with fans for the rest of the
night and then hang in mesh hay bags for feeding.


Don't know the answer to that one ... do you have room to freeze it?
I wish! We butchered two pigs this spring and are quite full! I'm
going to try to squeeze two days in the fridge and I figure the first
48 hours should be good at that temp.


shouldn't "mix vitamin E, vitamin C or B vitamins with supplements
containing inorganic mineral forms." Don't know how that describes
your supplements. I combine everything but the E into a zip-lock,
adding E, sometimes capsules, sometimes liquid, to the mix just
before I feed. The capsules should be easy for your husband to throw in
I have caps and I think he can handle that much:) He is such a trooper
about helping out and catering to my complicated routine. Thanks also
for your kinds words. My grandmother was 94 and lead a wonderful
healthy life. She passed quietly in her sleep after breaking a hip
last week, but never had any major illness her whole life. I hope I'm
so lucky.

Jodie who is calming down some with organization and Copper
WA


Re: Hay soaking and sugar/was :Emergency Diet - then what?

briarskingstonnet <briars@...>
 


You soaked an entire bale? How did you ever move it?????
Very,very strong.
LOL.

The tank is against the barn,and there is a winch on the side of the
barn.Sometimes I winched up the soaked bale,slid a grid under
it ,opened the twine and let it drain as the water went out the drain
plug.
Other times I tried opening the drain plug with the bale still in the
tank,cut the twine , then tipped the tank on its side, forked out the
pads of soaked hay into a Garden Way cart and headed to the field to
serve.

Lorna


Re: Hay soaking and sugar/was :Emergency Diet - then what?

Cindy <cthompson@...>
 

I put a bale in a stock tank,covered with water,let soak for an hour
in
cold water,drained,fed.
You soaked an entire bale? How did you ever move it?????


Hay soaking and sugar/was :Emergency Diet - then what?

briarskingstonnet <briars@...>
 

Unless you put the hay
in a REALLY large tank of water and/or soak and rinse, soak and
rinse,
etc. you don't wash that much sugar away.
I think a lot of us would disagree.I was soaking for 7,and I have no
idea how much sugar was being eliminated.But I do know that there were
physical differences in several of my IR guys in a short time....ie
weight loss.
I put a bale in a stock tank,covered with water,let soak for an hour in
cold water,drained,fed.

Lorna


Re: Flax vs Psyllium, off topic?

Melissa
 

Does a 1/2 cup ground flax daily eliminate the need for a psyllium
I was advised to feed the flax seed SOAKED to eliminate the need for
psyllium. I don't know how ground vs. soaked would change the
effects. I did some reading on flax and flax oil awhile ago (long
before finding this group) and as far as I can remember it was supposed
to have some sort of "cleansing" effect. My horse would not eat the
soaked flax and I have been giving only ground flax since beginning the
ED this past winter.

There was a recent blurb in Equus about psyllium and mineral oil's
effect on sand colic. It wasn't a big article, 1 page at most, but you
may be interested.

Melissa, Callie & Lil Bit
Las Vegas, NV


Re: Urgent-ish questions - Fran

Saucier Kathy
 

Fran,
About weed killer to help make your bigger dry lot, I'm a fan of the 10-20% vinegar method.
Check out the message archives for one I wrote in 2005 and others from Dr. Kellon, etc. Start with #58218 on 2/3/05 titled Re: Dry Lot and Weeds - organic method. Continue the line of message through 2/4 including #58225 from Dr. K.
You should be able to find an organic gardening center in your part of the state and either get a pre-mix or just pick up 10% or 20% vinegar.
I'm pulling for you and Jammer. Hope you get those other questions answered and just saw the last message about dehydration and liver.
He is in the size & shape Magic was and we just couldn't get any answers.
You are in my prayers.
Kathy
(& Magic in greener pastures with Allah and Bailey & all the others)


Re: Emergency Diet - then what?

Cindy <cthompson@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "sharlyn_sawyer"
<tajikdance@...> wrote:

PS: Found the reference on soaking hay times (sugar being reabsorbed
issues)... please refer to this message #97241 from Eleanor Kellon.
VERY interesting. If I'm reading this correctly, it doesn't sound like
you really draw that much sugar off the hay. Unless you put the hay
in a REALLY large tank of water and/or soak and rinse, soak and rinse,
etc. you don't wash that much sugar away.

Am I right?????

Cindy


Dr. Kellon: Question from my vet

fmetzger1
 

My vet has asked me to post a message to Dr. Kellon asking if it would
be OK to administer anabolic steroids to Jammer (Cushing's and
Diabetic) to increase his appetite and help add muscle. I told her
about the group's successful use of AFP to stimulate appetite. What
shall I tell her about the steroids? My gut tells me that the steroids
could be a problem, but I'm no expert. She feels it's critical to do
something for him ASAP.

Also, just as I was writing this, the vet called me to say that Jammer
is dehydrated and starting to show liver problems. He's getting 6
Tablespoons/day of loose salt. What should I do? What about the liver
problems? Vet is going to call me back with his GGT.

Fran and Jammer
and Allah and Bailey, now in greener pastures


Re: APF-e??? Anybody tried this yet? Dr. Kellon????

Susan <sbaumgardner@...>
 

I misspoke- VetAmerica sells APF Plus ( not APF Pro).
I spoke to Auburn Labs and they sell APF Plus ONLY to Vets and
distributors...not directly to retail. Vet America IS purchasing APF
Plus from Auburn Labs.
Susan

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Beware of VetAmerica as they are not buying products from Auburn
Laboratories, Inc. like the other suppliers.
Check there website:
http://www.auburnlabs.com/wheretoBuyTack.html
http://www.auburnlabs.com/wheretoBuyCat.html


Re: Emergency Diet - then what?

sharlyn_sawyer <tajikdance@...>
 

PS: Found the reference on soaking hay times (sugar being reabsorbed
issues)... please refer to this message #97241 from Eleanor Kellon.

Best,
Sharlyn & Nikki


Re: hay soak over night discussion history...one of them.... HELP!!!!

Cindy <cthompson@...>
 

OK - I just read through all of these posts and want a "yes" of "no"
answer to these questions:
1. You CAN soak hay for longer than an hour.
2. If soaked for longer than 1 hour you may not leach out any more
suagar but the sugar will not get reabsorbed into the hay.
3. The amount of sugar that leaves your hay depends on the amount of
water it's soaked in and/or how many times you rinse it.
4. Soaking hay overnight may increase the chances for bacterial growth
and/or mold.

I think I'm still confused!!

Cindy


Re: Emergency Diet - then what?

Cindy <cthompson@...>
 

No, it's a spare stock tank! I was putting it out in the pasture for
my mares but now I'm toting buckets of water instead. The stock tank
is perfect for soaking hay!!

Cindy


hay soak over night discussion history...one of them....

julie congleton <juliecongleton@...>
 

I think the discussion starts at 113214


Re: Emergency Diet - then what?

sharlyn_sawyer <tajikdance@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., lindarollins38@... wrote:

6. Yes, sitting overnight is a problem. The hay reabsorbs the sugars
if it sits too long soaking. Think of steeping tea. That's why
soaking/rinsing the hay is so important.

Hi folks,

Can we set this straight once again?
The last time this came up the verdict seemed to be that soaking hay
for more time was not an issue. Sugars once leached out into the soak
water were not reabsorbed.... Hate to bring it up again but every time
I read this my heart skips a beat, and I am sure I am not the only
one.... can we have another go at this issue please? Tried to find the
last posted exchange on this topic for reference, with no luck. But I
believe the last time this discussion took place the verdict was that
the sugars do not reabsorb into the hay and the only consideration for
a longer soaking period (i.e. longer than the recommended 1 hr)was the
possibility of fermentation in hot weather, or freezing in cold.

All the best,
Sharlyn & Nikki


Re: When to increase pergolide Need help with possible early laminitis

Cheryl Hooper <capnmrgn2000@...>
 

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, n rand <nantomluna@...> wrote:

His last blood work was March and I was told everything was good and pergolide dose was fine..(see below)  The hay was tested in January and tested out fine..(10.2 NSC) .He is barefoot, trimmed every4-5 weeks by a very good barefoot trimmer.

He is fed Safe N Easy pellets (7 pounds per day) , TC Low Starch forage (7 pounds per day) and a pound of Grow N Win per day.  He only eats about 7-10 pounds of very soft hay per day since he has no incisors.  He refused ODBP and plain beet pulp so I have had to find what he WILL eat an that is NOT easy.
*Cortisol  164 (85-180) MMO/L
Insulin 108
Glucose 5.8 MMO/L
<snip>

HI Nan,
Have you ever had an ACTH done? Cortisol isn't really very diagnostic for Cushing's. What are the units for your insulin? Off the top of my head, I can't remember the S/S #s for those feeds. Have you tried the ODTB cubes? The 10.2 NSC may end up being too high for him to tolerate. It certainly wouldn't hurt to soak it for now, while your getting things in order(I know it's a pain!). Glad to hear you've got a good barefoot trimmer!

Cheryl and Oliver, 24yo Morgan with ECD and IR, in Newbury, MA
http://www.sportshorses.com/cases/capnmrgn2000.Oliver.htm


Re: APF-e??? Anybody tried this yet? Dr. Kellon????

Deborah Burnett <deborahburnett21@...>
 

Beware of VetAmerica as they are not buying products from Auburn Laboratories, Inc. like the other suppliers.
Check there website:
http://www.auburnlabs.com/wheretoBuyTack.html
http://www.auburnlabs.com/wheretoBuyCat.html
 
I buy from Valley Vet and get product within 2 days with no shipping charge.. Buy two bottles for $56.95 each with no shipping.

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Susan <sbaumgardner@...> wrote:

From: Susan <sbaumgardner@...>
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: APF-e??? Anybody tried this yet? Dr. Kellon????
To: EquineCushings@...
Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 4:19 PM






APF Pro $44.95 at VetAmerica.com Best price!
Susan
____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _

Where are you getting the APF PRO.


















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