Date   

Safe Feeds Sources

susie_gordon <whitneygt@...>
 

I currently maintain the "SAFE FEEDS" Source list in the FILES section at the home page.

Sources are listed for Australia, Canada, and the United States with a few sources for the UK. I would like to add sources for Europe as well.

In the United States, sources are listed by state. This list is only as reliable as the information that is sent to me by the membership. If any of the information currently in the file is incorrect or no longer a valid option, please let me know.

If you have a source for molasses free beet pulp, Ontario Dehy Timothy Balanced Cubes, Sterrett Pellets, etc, please send:

Name of feed store
Street Address
City, State, and Postal Code
Name of contact (if any)
Phone number and/or facsimile number
webpage (if any)
Any other pertinent info to include such things as minimum orders and time frame for ordering

Send to:

Susie Gordon, MD
whitneygt "at" hughes "dot" net


Help Volunteers Help You

susie_gordon <whitneygt@...>
 

*************************************
Help Volunteers Help You


To obtain the best, most complete answers to your questions, we ask all members to include the link to your Case History in your signature line.


Case Histories from 2003-2006 may be found here.
<http://www.sportshorses.com/list.htm>
They may also be accessed via the LINKS of the group homepage.
Some Histories from 2007 to 2008 may still be accessed at File Number 9
<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/9%20Case%20Histories/

This file may also be accessed via the FILES section of the group homepage.

Newest files - 2008 to date - may be added and accessed at the ECHistory site
<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory2/>

NOTE: URLs in this memo may need to be copied and pasted into your browser window.

Thank you for your cooperation. Owners, Moderators and Primary Response Team of the Equine Cushings List


EC List Etiquette

susie_gordon <whitneygt@...>
 

EquineCushings List Etiquette


This is a very high volume list and as a result can be difficult to follow. Because of this, we ask you to follow the guidelines below to help make this easier for all.


1.) Please sign your posts with at least your first name, location and date you joined the list.

2.) Limit the number of lines in your automatic signature.
Please make sure that any signature lines you have aren't more than 3 or 4 lines maximum.

3.) Trim the message you're replying to before sending to the list:
Most email programs will automatically duplicate the message you're replying to into your reply. When you are replying to a list, please take a few seconds to delete all but a small part of the post you are replying to that is essential for others to understand the context of your post.

4.) Clearly indicate the content of your posts in the subject line.
At times, a thread will take off in a new direction. When that happens,
we ask that you modify your subject line to indicate that you're changing the focus of the discussion. For example, your subject line might read like this: Subject: XYZ (was re: Old Subject).

5.) Avoid one liners or chattiness on the main Equine Cushings list:

6.) Don't repost messages that you've posted when they don't immediately appear on the list or if they're not quickly answered:
Please give list members one or two days to answer your post before you decide its been missed. If your post doesn't receive an answer within roughly 48 hours, please DO refer to the message number or repost the message. Include "2nd Post" in the subject line so it won't accidentally be missed again. Be patient with us in this regard – there are so very many posts that sometimes some accidentally get missed and this is not intentional or a personal reflection on you in any way.

7.) Feel free to take Off-Topic but horse-related issue or chats to our separate yahoo group Off-Topic list:
If you think you're starting to veer off-topic, please feel free to post a VERY brief message with "OT" in the subject line to the main list letting folks know that you're taking the discussion about topic "xyz" to ECPhotos or ECHoof


ECPhotos can be accessed at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECPhotos/?yguid=8949199
email: ECPhotos@...


ECHistory - the group filing cabinet for Individual Case Histories and Hay Analysis - can be reached at
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory2/


ECHoof can be accessed at:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHoof/


Thank you for your cooperation.
Owners, Moderators and Primary Response Team of the Equine Cushings List


Oldest horse with Cushings

grayarabiankasha <kvshopping@...>
 

I hope I'm not going off topic, but I am curious--does anyone know the oldest ages (and/or average) of horses with Cushings and IR? I'll post on EQ Photos, too. Thanks
Kathy
SoCal
2003


Re: ODTB Cubes in Arizona?

grayarabiankasha <kvshopping@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Susan" <sbaumgardner@...> wrote:


There are 3 feed stores in my area (SD ,Cal) that will bring in ODTBC if I order a pallet-40 bags.

Again, according to Triple Crown rep-any feed store that carries TC products CAN place an order for ODTBC. So far that has hasn't happened.
That is helpful info, Susan, thank you. I will find a way to get the cubes when I move to AZ. I can be very persistent and persuasive :-)

Kathy
SoCal
2003


Re: Repost :help balancing hay

Teresa Palumbo <teresa@...>
 

Monique,

You have had two responses to your previous requests. See messages
129649 and 131109.

Cheryl offered to help, but needs to know where your info is...a link to
your file would be a big help.

If Cheryl is no longer available to help, I am.



Teresa, Alixia and Ollie

Lititz,PA

October 2006

http://tinyurl.com/cev6un <http://tinyurl.com/cev6un>






--- In EquineCushings@..., "Monique Warren" <tink92065@...>
wrote:

No one has replied for my request to balance hay. >
Monique Warren
san diego
2007


Repost :help balancing hay

Monique Warren
 

I have had my results for 2 weeks now. No one has replied for my request to balance hay. My sister has the spreadsheet to do the minerals but I was really hoping to have a guru that has taken Dr. Kellons classes to do it for me. Always issues w/ each individual I would like to address ! I spend my time studying feet and would like someone that has taken the time to study diet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Any takers ?

Monique Warren
san diego
2007


Re: Got 2 of 3 test results back...

Linda <PapBallou@...>
 


Glucose - 105 (vet said this is in normal range of 75-117)
Insulin - not back yet
ACTH - 52
Hi Ginger -

Yes, the PPID is not controlled. It is possible she is in the fall rise, or the PPID is slowly progressing. Either way, upping the dose is appropriate. I suspect the insulin will be slightly elevated when you get that back.

and also add in veg. oil as she continues to stay just slightly ribby...
This is dangerous. Oil/fat in any form other than the essential fatty acids in your flax is *foreign* to the horses diet, and induces or worsens IR. See this post from Dr Kellon:

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/106608>

There are many other studies in the archives but search simply doesn't search effectively at the moment.

To increase her weight, give her more safe feed. What about beet pulp? Are you soaking her hay since you can't test? Try to give her free choice of the hay and see if you can't get weight on her that way. As a bit of an older horse, she might not have enough protein in the diet as well. BP will help and whey protein at 30 grams/day. And, getting the PPID better controlled with help as well.

Does she have muscle loss/wasting as well?

Looking forward to seeing the insulin results.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Rafiq has rotated again ... (2x in 3wks)

lars_a_swe
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Shannon" <skgserenity@...> wrote:
Later today we expect the new boots to come in (Ultima? - not sure of the brand name), which will elevate his heels a few more degrees and take as much of the pressure off of the deep flexor tendons as possible

Hi Shannon,

This is not the proper forum for a discussion on mechanical issues. However, I just want to say that IMO there is a much better way to deal with a laminitic horse than to raise the heels.

I'm glad you're not thinking of cutting the DFT. It's not the tensile force in the DFT that causes separation and rotation, it's the tensile stress in the laminae.

Lars
July 2008


Got 2 of 3 test results back...

Ginger Reid
 

I will have to figure out how to post on the place to list all this...but it's been 3 weeks and I only have 2 of the 3 blood tests back from Texas A & M! Man...has never taken this long before!
What I have so far is

Glucose - 105 (vet said this is in normal range of 75-117)
Insulin - not back yet
ACTH - 52

My vet says that she def. needs higher dosage of pergolide...has been on 1 mg. for 3.5 yrs. now...he wants to up to 1.5 mg...this is not the original vet who ran original tests and prescribed the original dosage...

Would like some feedback on these numbers I have so far...

I buy my hay from 3-4 different sources and they have numerous pastures they cut from...so getting the hay analysed is very hard and expensive to do...I am feeding Purina Wellsolve L/S as her base feed and add in Max-E-Glo and (2) lg. scoops of Remission per day (was only 1 but I doubled it) and also add in veg. oil as she continues to stay just slightly ribby...she started showing a crest in her neck again after many years of not looking symptomatic...but then I knew we needed to get new bloodwork done...I would also think she has fat pockets about her eyes as with her age, they should be sunken in quite a bit? Coat is fine - she gets wooley in winter but always sheds out normally..

Cassie - 23 y/o Arabian mare
Ginger Reid - joined 3.5 yrs ago..


Re: Rafiq has rotated again ... (2x in 3wks)

Ronia van Gage <rvangage@...>
 

My thoughts are with you through this difficult journey. If possible could you switch to capsule form of Pergolide. Not too great on the conversion of 5 ml to grams but most average size horses are getting .75 to 1mg and eventually higher.
There is info on the files as to where to source Pergolide from approved sources.

Just worried about him not getting the actual dose into his system that he really needs and will help him through this crisis.

Hang in there and keep posting.


Ronia in TO
Member since August 2008

and perhaps more----- Original Message -----
From: Shannon
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2009 5:38 AM
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re:Rafiq has rotated again ... (2x in 3wks)


Re: New to Group - lots of questions

Jill Gontarek
 

"Read this previous post when you get the chance:
<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/129462>"

I got teary eyed reading the post, except for the ending (which I have every confidence we will get too) it could have been Polly's history. From the initial soreness in front to the soreness in the rear. We've injected hocks in the past, tried every type of shoe from heartbars to roller shoes. I should have listened to my heart because she has always been better without them, but you are supposed to trust your farrier and vet right?

Thanks again for all the great advice from this group. I am only going to be hand walking her until I see that she is completely sound, I'm researching new farriers in the area as well as vets. I'm asking for specifics on the hay at my barn (haven't gotten the results yet) and first and foremost listening to my horse and my instincts. Thanks to all and any more insights are more than welcome and appreciated.

Jill and Polly
July 2009
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory2/files/Jill%20and%20Polly/


Re: Rafiq has rotated again ... (2x in 3wks)

Shannon
 

Hi Leslie,

I do understand what you are talking about, as I have been through rotation and its aftermath in my IR mare, Majik. Rafiq (my Cushings/IR gelding who is currently in crisis mode) is actually foundering, not healing. He has had heat for several days now around the upper portion of the hoof and along the coronary band. Xrays are pretty clear on where the old is "flaring" out from previous separation, and the changes due to the most recent rotation.

Rafiq is currently eating soaked timothy hay only, with bute, ulcerguard, and soft-ride boots to try to alleviate some of the pull on the deep flexor tendon. Later today we expect the new boots to come in (Ultima? - not sure of the brand name), which will elevate his heels a few more degrees and take as much of the pressure off of the deep flexor tendons as possible (short of a sling). He is also receiving his full dose (.5 ml) of pergolide by syringe orally so he is definitely not missing any of it.

So, the starch/sugar issue has been completely eliminated, his Cushing's is being treated, and he has not displayed a fever or any other indication of being sick or having an infection.

Stress and the extreme heat wave we are having could be a major factor in setting this back into motion. Rafiq had to stay in a stall once he returned back home (boarding barn), and he does not like that kind of confinement. He will walk circles, pace, and generally just be unhappy about that level of stall rest, but it was essential the first few days due to some rain that actually fell in our area (we have been in a heavy drought).

Another possibility that has come to mind is that we did not get enough of the pergolide into his system before this secondary rotation was set in motion. Other than the stress, the heat, and the Cushing's, I do not have any other causal factors that come to mind.

Please do not cut the tendon...this is totally unnecessary and is extremely painful.<
This would never occur to me as an option as the deep flexor tendon is crucial in the ability of a horse to even put weight on the foot. Horses with severed flexor tendons are most often euthanized in my experience. I suppose it would relieve the pull on the coffin bone, but wouldn't it also cripple the horse? How could a horse with his deep flexor tendon pick up his hoof to take a step? It surely would be quite painful, I would imagine.

General update: he is moving around his stall without any problems, his appetite is very much normal, and he has not been laying down more than usual (if at all). Right now we are focusing on the absolute basics in order to get him out of this critical stage. He is handling this way better than I am. I just wish the heat and elevated pulse would subside. *Then* I will have some peace of mind.

More updates to come as I get them, and thanks to everyone who has him in your hearts and prayers.

Shannon, Rafiq and Majik
SE Texas
July '09


Re: Horses and stuff

abrrgs
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "cldeverett" <everett@...> wrote:
You can e-mail me at rrgs@...
Hi Alice,
Could you send send email, to discuss, the off-line option won't work for me today.
Thanks,
Claudia
Brownfield
October 208
I'm only a couple of towns away from you in Maine. I understand your frustration with getting good vets to come out to this area. I have a horse with cushings also. It is because of the infomation from this group that she is doing so much better. I have a farrier who has been great with her. He understands cushings and IR and will work with you to get your horse sound. If you want his name and number shot me an e-mail.

Alice



Re: Horse lying down too much and

cldeverett
 

--- Hi Missy,
Could you contact me by email about the cubes, I want to make sure I'm not taking your supply, if I go get some. I'm having a problem with the offline page, it won't display.
Thanks,
Claudia
Maine
October 2009>

Yes, I'm on the northeast side of Yarmouth, but that's OK. I can still
meet you somewhere, if it will help. I pay $18.95/bag. Abby gets 4#/day
now and we're working on increasing slowly. The forage balance is made
up in her hay. Her feet feel so much better and her appetite has
improved. In the beginning she wouldn't touch the cubes, no matter what
I tried. Call Ames if you decide to drive over, just to be sure that
they have bags in stock. I ask them to hold them for me until I can get
down on the weekend and they do. Let me know if I can help.
Missy and Abby in Maine
Nov 2008





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Horses and stuff

cldeverett
 

Hi Alice,
Could you send send email, to discuss, the off-line option won't work for me today.
Thanks,
Claudia
Brownfield
October 208
I'm only a couple of towns away from you in Maine. I understand your frustration with getting good vets to come out to this area. I have a horse with cushings also. It is because of the infomation from this group that she is doing so much better. I have a farrier who has been great with her. He understands cushings and IR and will work with you to get your horse sound. If you want his name and number shot me an e-mail.

Alice



Re: Issues with Bute

Claire C. Cox-Wilson <shotgun.ranch@...>
 

In addition to what Nancy says below, keep in mind that bute & other NSAIDs interfere with the healing of musculoskeletal injuries.

Claire in AZ
EC List Moderator
Aug. 2000

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory2/files/Shotgun%20Ranch/

--- In EquineCushings@..., "goddess03259" <threecatfarm@...> wrote:

Hi Jodi

There is a good long review at message #58964. As you've stated the concern is with long term use and the affect on blood flow and "good" nitric oxide delivery for healing. As you have said it does override j herb.

Most of the list emergency documents say short term if needed but minimize as much as possible. Dr Kellon has also talked about the use of banamine (message #129219 ) or low dose Aleve/naproxen (message #126771 ) as alternatives which some members use successfully. They can still cause the ulcer situations but not the collitis that long term bute can cause. PhytoQuench (Uckele) may be an alternative for you as well depending upon her injury. (See file - Pain Medication and Alternatives)

Nancy C in NH
Moderator
February 2003


Re: ODTB Cubes in Arizona?

Susan <sbaumgardner@...>
 

Kathy,

There are 3 feed stores in my area (SD ,Cal) that will bring in ODTBC if I order a pallet-40 bags.

Again, according to Triple Crown rep-any feed store that carries TC products CAN place an order for ODTBC. So far that has hasn't happened.

Susan
EC Primary Response
CA 1/07
........................................................



Anyone have any experience with getting a business to order the cubes?


Re: New to Group - lots of questions

Jill Gontarek
 

"Did you take your horse TO the vet, or did the vet come to you?"

The vet came to our barn. He took the samples around 11:30 am. Polly had her 1/4 scoop of low fat grain (which she no longer gets)around 7:30am and then was turned out with her muzzle on. She probably had some hay before the grain as they have a round bale in the paddock. It was very quiet that day and she was very relaxed.

"Your vet must have been delighted to be asked if the sample was handled according to our guidelines!"

Uh, no to put it mildly. It was kind of fun to be able to share information from articles written by other vets such as Dr Kellon and papers published from Cornell and quote information that I've received from members like you. He kind of gave me a pat on the arm and said, 'well you certainly are full of questions aren't you'. Guess he's not used to being questioned. Oh well.....

Jill and Polly
July 2009
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory2/files/Jill%20and%20Polly/


Re: Issues with Bute

Nancy C
 

Hi Jodi

There is a good long review at message #58964. As you've stated the concern is with long term use and the affect on blood flow and "good" nitric oxide delivery for healing. As you have said it does override j herb.

Most of the list emergency documents say short term if needed but minimize as much as possible. Dr Kellon has also talked about the use of banamine (message #129219 ) or low dose Aleve/naproxen (message #126771 ) as alternatives which some members use successfully. They can still cause the ulcer situations but not the collitis that long term bute can cause. PhytoQuench (Uckele) may be an alternative for you as well depending upon her injury. (See file - Pain Medication and Alternatives)

Nancy C in NH
Moderator
February 2003

--- In EquineCushings@..., "jlehman23" <jodi@...> wrote:

Would someone please verify the issues to be concerned about with Bute? My vet and I are discussing the advisability of using Bute on my Cushings mare for a minor injury, not related to the Cushings, which is under control.

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