Date   

Re: Lump on Belly, scabs all over - Rayya / Arab mare

Nancy C
 

Hi JoAnne

We need to move this to ECHorsekeeping if Rayya is not IR or PPID. Just want to add that info on the Onochera that Rick mentions in his post is in one of the Merck links I sent. Not sure that they are weather oriented but will go look for more info for you. Oddly there was a ton of discussion on ECHorsekeeping (then ECPhotos) list last year that explains what to do for these.

Only one gelding here was plagued with them last spring and summer. My other boy was not.

Here's the link again

<http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/71804.htm>

The midline swelling and weeping goo that you describe was very much a symptom. Using spirulina and chondroitin worked for him with out the need for steriods

Background info on spirulina here

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/Spirulina/>

Nancy C in NH
February 2003
Moderator

Visit our new site:
http://www.ecirhorse.com/


Re: Can Cushings cause a change in temperament?

redpony84
 

still she threatens me when shes fed up with things like blankets...she would never ever have tried to do that before she got sick.

That's exactly when my mare is her nastiest. She's never even twitched an ear at me before in the 18 years I've owned her but recently has been quite sensitive about blanket adjustments.

...maybe it's just a chesnut mare thing.

Mary
Ontario
May 2009


Re: Thanks for the memories

cynthia perkins <perkins_cynthia@...>
 

Hi, Carol,  I'm so sorry to read about your loss.  It made me remember another wonderful TWH I used to know named Mac.  If your Mac was like him, I know you definitely have a bunch of good memories to keep!
 
Cindy Perkins, Belleville, IL
perkins_cynthia@... 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ODTB Cubes - now Horse Tech's Flax

Saucier Kathy
 

I have a bag of Horse Tech's Nutra Flax right next to me here. All they have added to fresh milled flax is calcium carbonate.
And what they say is that they have added Ca to balance the Calcium to Phosphorus ratio of this supplement.
So it won't put your Ca:P ratio in your whole balanced diet out of whack.
Kathy Saucier
Texas
2005


Re: cellulitis rt hind and rt front in IR mare - not critical - Dr. Kellon and group

jgpigger
 

HI Paula
With it being right sidedness, I'd be looking for an ulcer, either fore gut or hind gut or both. Her grabbiness would certainly lead me to believe an ulcer is the culprit, jmo. Been there. candy

Yesterday we played at liberty, happy to move though still not as happy to the rt - cellulitis is gone.


What could be going on here? No indication she was in season (and it is hard for me to tell with her), but she was definitely grumpy with this flare up.


Paula
MT 12/09


Re: Thanks for the memories

Saucier Kathy
 

Carol,
So sorry for your loss.
Your Mac brought back many similar memories of my Magic I lost a year and a half ago.
Big black 16 H walker with white star and snip too.
Little girls fall in love with those big black horses.
And he too, in his latter years was fabulous with kids and was used in many lessons. He too knew to be ever so careful.
They are so special.
That is so wonderful of you to take in these Cushing's horses and give them the care you have learned. Bless you.
Kathy Saucier
Texas
2005


Re: Thanks for the memories

Amy T <aet001@...>
 

Carol, I'm so sorry for your loss. And so proud of you for taking in
foster horses and sharing your love and knowledge with them. Fly Free
Mac, you will be missed. Hugs and thinking of you, Amy in PA '06ish
(Misty C/IR, Herbie IR, lost beloveds on HIH site Echo, Dylan, Pebbles,
Cherry)
--- In EquineCushings@..., "Carol" <calpiner@...> wrote:

We lost our wonderful 30 yr old TWH, Mac, on
. So the knowledge I've gained with Mac will be passed forward to both
of them.

One of the things that I learned when Abby passed away was to cherish
the moments that we had with Mac. We both feel very blessed to have had
so many years with our beloved buddies. They will live on in our hearts
in the many many happy memories of trail rides and quiet times together.

Carol
Missing my buddies in the Pacific NW


Re: Lump on Belly, scabs all over - Rayya / Arab mare

starsluckyrocket
 

If you have wormed your horse in last few weeks with ivermectin, the scabs your seeing in the jowl area could be Onchocerca cervicalis microfilarial dermatitis. My Arab mare had a bad case but it responded quickly to dexamethazone.
Rick
NH


APF and PQ

atancredi2000
 

I am wondering if the use of APF and PhytoQuench together is OK. A little history: 16 year old pony with laminitis in Oct. Diagnosed with PPID and IR at that time. Put on pergolide and thryroid-L. Diet changed to Ontario Dehy Balance Cubes with salt, flax, and Vit. E. Used a muzzle for turn-out. Trimmed properly. Pony did well through Nov. and Dec. Then about 9 days ago, started to look very sore again.
Vet re-did blood work and took xrays. Blood work revealed ATCH is fine, but the IR is still not good. Vet has upped the Thryroid-L. She is on 1 gram of bute. Started APF 4 days ago and she is starting to show improvement. Will be weaning her off the bute and am wondering if I can add PQ if needed after getting her off the Bute. Soft-Ride boots should arrive Monday.Thank you for your help. Any other suggestions are more than welcome. This group has been wonderful.

Anne T., Barkhamsted, CT
October 2009


blood testing question

Katherine
 

I am about to have annual bloodwork drawn on my mule and my Canadian horse, both of which are diagnosed IR through previous bloodwork. This time, I have arranged with my vet to sent the blood to Cornell. I'm really glad that she's willing to make that arrangement - I'm in So. Calif. so as you can imagine Cornell is not a lab that's often used around here.

so she's coming out on Monday, but early in the afternoon. She needs to come later in the day in order to be able to take the bloodwork straight back to her office after my appointment (her office is about 50 miles away). She's bringing a centrifuge so she can spin it down immediately.

Since this isn't a morning draw, what do I do about food? In the past, I've had morning bloodwork and just given them their regular hay. But they are generally done eating by mid-morning, and she's coming in the early afternoon. Should I give them extra? Come home ahead of the vet and feed them?

Any thoughts would be appreciated! I want to get the best and most accurate blood draw that I can, obviously.

Katie
Ramona, CA
Member since 8/08


Re: Thanks for the memories

Cindy McGinley
 

Carol,

I'm very sorry for your loss. You had Mac almost 20 years, and, though I'm sure it didn't seem so, that is a very long time for him to "get under your skin." These old guys just take our hearts with them when they go, don't they? He sounds like one of those very special horses that only come along once in a lifetime. What a wonderful tribute to your old friend, that you have these fond memories to share with the rest of us.

I know the pain is raw right now, but it will ease with time. Sending hugs from NY, and raising a glass to Mac.

With Our Deepest Sympathy,
Cindy, Alf, Connie, Dare, & Saffron
(in memory of Dusty and Red)


Re: Chantilly

ejm <ejmico@...>
 

Karen wrote:
I am back. I have been without a computer for two weeks. Bad virus.
Tilly is doing well. We just put in the fifth application of
maggots. They are still eating away at bad stuff in her feet. I am
hoping this will be the last. I will be checking tomorrow afternoon
to see if they are still working. We have decided not to do the
prefusion for now. Maybe later, but the maggots seem to be really
helping her.
Hi Karen, I have had a virus also....boy are they ever a royal pain. I think I'm okay now but the computer guru is coming again Monday to check us out for sure.

I am so glad to hear that Tilly is doing well. I have been wondering about the two of you but couldn't use the computer to find out how things were going. Your message gave me a big sigh of relief. I am so happy for you both.

Elva
June 2004
New Mexico


Re: Phosphorus questions

briarskingstonnet <briars@...>
 

Is it usable, or should I return it and get monosodium Phosphate?
If it were me,Bonnie,and I had iron issues,I'd return it.That's a concern with d-calcium P, and mono-cal P.Also,for my hay the calcium would mean I'm adding to my already-high Ca.
Otherwise ,I would use it(how much did you get,though?) and get the monosodium phosphate next time.


Lorna in Ontario
Support/Moderator
2002


Re: WAS: Ontario Dehy Balanced Timothy Cubes NOW: Yeast

turn3barrelhorses@...
 

Ok- still breathing! :)
Yes hay is being balanced, custom supplement is in the works. They are getting vit E capsules, salt, etc. I started the Horseshine, 2 days ago, tonight will be 3rd feeding for everyone. Decided to go with stabalized vs. fresh grind cuz I couldn't get past the "might be a change of cyanide". Personal choice!
I watch them all very closely anyway but more so now whenever anything is added/changed with their diets because of the pregnant 1, 1 who is IR & 1 Cushings. No special needs in my barn! ;)
Thank you for the continued info!

Alexis
So AZ
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


Re: Lump on Belly, scabs all over - Rayya / Arab mare

Missy Libby
 

Thanks, Nancy. That's why I said "just something to consider" and not be
taken as a silver bullet. I didn't want this to be one of those "other
things" that wasn't given consideration. Sometimes it's something
apparently minute that makes a difference. I'd never heard of Chia til
our swelling mystery appeared (Sept 09). It was a safe option for us to
explore before dismantling Abby's diet, and whether coincidentally, or
not, gave us desired results. I requested the minimal amount of flax (2
oz/day) for my Horsetech supp. All I can say, is so far, so good for us.

Missy and Abby in Maine
Nov 2008

-----Original Message-----
From: EquineCushings@...
[mailto:EquineCushings@...] On Behalf Of Nancy
Sent: Saturday, January 30, 2010 4:08 PM
I know this is a big topic for at least one other trimming list. So far
there has been no evidence that the dots in the line of thinking have
been connected correctly. Too many confounding elements were also part
of the picture of the mares reported as having issues.
_,___


Re: Phosphorus questions

Bonnie <bonnie.ivey@...>
 

No, Lorna, my mistake. I asked for "Phosphorus" for a horse, and that was what they sent. Is it usable, or should I return it and get monosodium Phosphate?

Bonnie Ivey, Ontario
12/08


cellulitis rt hind and rt front in IR mare - not critical - Dr. Kellon and group

pposey09
 

Hi all,
I thought I was done with this, but apparently not.
Around Dec 1st I stopped feeding everything but hay - found this group - and am in the process of obtaining all I need to balance my hay. I was feeding beet pulp, Poly zinc (the correct amount by luck), poly copper - not enough, MSM, ground flax - not stableized and a detox called Vivo Animals that contains dia. earth and zeolite (read the posts on both). The occasional flares of cellulitis in the rt hind and to a lesser degree the rt front went away.

I went back on beet pulp early Jan - rinsing, soaking, rinsing - whole flax I am grinding daily, using Target IR (which she likes)while waiting for all else to arrive. Last week after two days of bad weather and no exercise sessions, she was not happy circling to the right...happy to move(walk, trot, canter), just not to the right. The next day I could detect the cellulitis. Stopped everything but hay again. We just took a long walk in hand that day and she continues to improve. Yesterday we played at liberty, happy to move though still not as happy to the rt - cellulitis is gone.

What could be going on here? Can beet pulp possibly be the problem? If so, what can I substitute safely as a medium for her minerals? A weather front passed through about then - not sure if that would be a factor. No indication she was in season (and it is hard for me to tell with her), but she was definitely grumpy with this flare up.

Thank you in advance for your thoughts and insight!

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory2/files/pposey09/

Paula
MT 12/09


WAS: Ontario Dehy Balanced Timothy Cubes NOW: Yeast

Nancy C
 

Dear list -- Sending myself a BIG DING for not changing the subject line when the thread changes! Apologies to all.


Hi Alexis

What Dr Kellon has said is the reaction to the yeast is stomach upset.

How long have you been using the Omega Horseshine? Sounds like you just bought it?
If they have been going along okay with it, I'd keep breathing. Lots of folks use the product.

For folks using fresh ground flax -- the amount flax we use does not throw a balanced diet out of whack. So if you are testing your hay, adding what is missing in the correct amounts and ratios, and you decide to use fresh ground flax vs the HT NutraFlax you won't through everything out of whack.

Yes?? :-)

Nancy C in NH
February 2003
Moderator

Visit our new site:
http://www.ecirhorse.com/

--- In EquineCushings@..., turn3barrelhorses@... wrote:

What types of problems?


Re: Lump on Belly, scabs all over - Rayya / Arab mare

Nancy C
 

Hi Missy

:-)

I remember when you went through this and it was during the seasonal rise correct? You had just had an ACTH taken which you were questioning the validity of. It was about 45 or so (lab values 9-35) in August as I recall. I don't remember if you had a new blood draw?

I'm guessing, your Horsetech mix has some 2-3 ounces of flax in it per serving. You can call them to check if you haven't already. I don't have it in our correspondence. (I balanced Abby's hay.) That would be more than enough Omega 3's so you don't even need the chia.

If Abby's ACTH was in fact up (did you ever increase the pergolide?) and continued to rise, that could very well account for skin issues and other hormonal related issues she may have had.

When members have been actually able to pin down the flax as an issue (isolated from other factors like ACTH or yeast or trim or unbalanced diet or other diagnosis) a very, very few have reported allergic reactions mostly in the form of stomach upset. Dr Kellon and Kathleen will have more info but I suggest these archived messages for review:

Flax/estrogen #133548, #28591

Yeast #133548

I know this is a big topic for at least one other trimming list. So far there has been no evidence that the dots in the line of thinking have been connected correctly. Too many confounding elements were also part of the picture of the mares reported as having issues.

I know you mean well. The concern Missy, is that other things that can do a lot of damage to a horse are being over looked as a result.

Nancy C in NH
February 2003
Moderator

Visit our new site:
http://www.ecirhorse.com/

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Melissa Libby" <bigredpony@...> wrote:
Mares seem to
be more prone to flax sensitivity than geldings. Just something to
consider.


Re: Results are in on Ladina

Joyce/K-J Hollow Andalusians
 

Well I did my Ladina run. The mill did have whole stable flax seed in Golden or dark brown. I got the golden .95 cents a lb not bad. Got the Vita E, and Mag/OX. So I think I am ready to rock :)

Another new adventure in horse ownership... after 37 years you get to realize how little you know.

Thanks for the sharing the success stories, I hope I will be there too.

Joyce

--- In EquineCushings@..., "J Amick" <happyday23@...> wrote:

Mandy has given you excellant advice to get your horse under control. Having an IR horse is not a quick fix in regards to
"getting a supplement" that fixes the problem. It is a continuous process forever. I have 2 IR horses in my barn now for nearly 5-6 years. If you follow what the instructions are suggested by this group, you get past all of the founder problems and will realize just how many other people are not aware of horses being IR.

Folks look at me like my hair is green when I tell them NO MOLASSES for any of my horses. I also have 2 that are not IR. The last time I went to the feed store a gal was telling the clerk about having alot of problems with a horse, and the clerk was savy of what I have been thru in the past few yrs. I remained silent.... Clerk turned to me and said, you need to help her, as you know more about this than the vets. I laughed and started some questions etc.

The general public is willing to listen in order to help their horses. But only a few will go the distance of really DOING
what it takes to get their horses back to normal and possibly get a few more rides again on that particular mount.
Dedication, love and genuine concern is what it takes.

Believe me had it not been for this list, my IR, Cushings, lyme diseased and front feet penetrated horse/s would be
6 under..... Be patient it takes time, they didn't get this way overnite. So the turn around won't be overnite either.
Judy-PA

Soak her hay for one hour in cold water/drain and serve.
Rinse/soak/rinse the beet pulp to make sure its clean, all molasses has been removed and you've removed UFO's.
Start the Temporary Emergency Diet minerals - 2000 iu's Vitamin E gelcaps, 2 TBS a day of loose iodized table salt right in the BP, magnesium and 2-4 oz freshly ground flax seed.

This will be her diet until you have your hay analyzed and minerals balanced by the hay gurus.

Do you have SoftRide boots/pads for her comfort? They are the best.

Keep her heels low and her toes backed.

Mandy in VA
EC First Responder
OCT 2003







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