Re: Diffrence between Magnesium carbonate and Magnesium Citrate


--- In EquineCushings@..., "Sylvie" <francky@...> wrote:

Hello all,

Can someone please tell me the diffrence between Magnesium Carbonate
and Magnesium Citrate?
Hi Sylvie,

One difference is that pure Magnesium Carbonate (MgCO3) contains 28.6 %
Magnesium while pure Magnesium Citrate (C6H6O7Mg) only contains 11 %
Magnesium. Feed graded Magnesium Carbonate usually contains about 25 %
Mg and feed graded Magnesium Citrate probably about 9 – 10 % Mg.

In humans, Magnesium Citrate seems to have a much higher bioavailability
than e.g. Magnesium Oxide. I don't think the absorption rate of
Magnesium Citrate has been studied in horses but I doubt that it is much
higher than for Magnesium Carbonate (the absorption rate of Magnesium
Carbonate is about 70 % according to NRC 2007).


July 2008

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Antiflam now Nasprin/Yucca


Thanks for the heads up Susan.

Caledon ON
Jan 2010

--- In EquineCushings@..., "palomino.1982" <sbaumgardner@...> wrote:

Hi Sharon,

If Rosie is IR and /or PPID- Yucca is not recommended..

Below is an excerpt from the Files: "Avoid These Items":

Yucca seems to affect the insuline/glucose levels and increase problems for horses that are insulin resistant or diabetic. IF your horse has ever had laminitis, founder, or insulin/glucose disturbances, avoid using Yucca.

San Diego 1.07



I am going to try Nasprin from Herbs for Horses in Guelph, Ontario

* Cayenne
* Devil's claw
* Feverfew
* Ginger
* Meadowsweet
* White willow
* Yarrow
* Yucca

Caledon ON
Jan 2010

Re: water consumption down

Don <don@...>

This may be of little consequence, but it occurred to me that you might be experiencing a change the water in your well. I did a quick search on well water in the Yuba City area and they do seem to have a problem with hardness. But then other things can get into well water too. Maybe a test is in order. Or there is a recent enough one that you could look at:


I'm originally from both the Mt Lassen area (Paradise - born there), and Kern County (Bakersfield - grew up there). And spent the a couple of years, age 17 to 20, in Sacramento. We both know about Central Valley hard water problems, I'm sure.

Here is a link to a search on difficulties for horses involving hard water:

*Don 06/08 Pacific Northwest U.S.
EC List Support Team

Visit the new Cushings and IR site:



Re: New to this all!!

Don <don@...>

Hi Sarah,

You'll find ECH2 at this link:

You must join first to read the files, of course.

Don 06/08 Pacific Northwest U.S.
EC List Support Team

Visit the new Cushings and IR site:

Sarah wrote:


I have been unable to find the ECH 2 Group .. Help!?


- Sarah in Washago, ON
Joined Feb '10

sheath swelling in winter

Kastelowitz <Kastelowitz@...>

Any recommendations for a cushings horse with chronic sheath swelling in the winter months?

Re: New to this all!!

Mandy Woods

Her laminitis will come undercontrol when you get her Diet undercontrol.....that means under 10% sugar/starch/fat a day. Untested hay could be very high in sugar....or iron which worsens IR or maganese. You will have to test. Canada? There is a File for Canadian sources. I do think you'd still use the parent Company of Equi-analytical. IF you are going to feed her hay, you must test it. Otherwise I'd keep her on the cube. Yes, add vitamin E, (see the Temp ER Diet for amounts) loose white salt and flax. Add these today. You can bloodtest as planned. No free choice hay for this girl! and no grazing! Even the 'dead brown' grass is full of sugar.

One suggestion.....I would break up her meals into 4 feedings. This way she has something going through her system as a horse in the natural state would have. So 2.5 pounds of cubes every 8 hours! or the best you can do. She may need ''chew time'' ~ give her a little bit of soaked hay then.

Do not over exercise her. IF she has rotation you want her quiet, protect her feet and let HER move at liberty.

My link to ECH2 didnt work? I cant access anything but emails right now so if you go to the Main Cushings page, you'll find it in the Start Here or New Member Primer. Sorry about that.

Mandy in snowy VA
EC First Responder
OCT 2003

What is Leo trying to tell me now?

Sharon M Mathews

Leo has been doing really good with his 1.0 ml pergolide, balanced bahia hay (no pasture) and adjusted to being barefoot. We are still experiencing winter temps, too. Since Friday he water intake has increased more than usual and last night he had cow pies instead of normal horse apples. What is he trying to tell? We've come too far now for me to not pay attention.

Sharon & Aztec Leo
AL 2008

Re: New to this all!!

Sarah <s.w.lloyd@...>

Thanks Mandy!

The total symptoms were; fat deposits around the crest, haunches, tailhead and puffiness above the eyes, with the appearance of a hay belly and the ability to find ribs. Combined with a fairly long haired coat, that she had this past summer. As well as the laminitis symptoms, especially the rings around her hooves which suggested a history of this.

I plan on asking for the ACTH test, instead of the Dex Supression test which my vet initially recommended. I want her laminitis under control, before testing for anything though.

She tapes in at 540lbs at 12.2hh. The vet felt that she was not obese, but only slightly overweight as you can find ribs fairly easily -- but combined with large portions of fat being carried on her neck/crest and haunches. She is on a totally restricted diet and will continue on that for awhile. We are feeding her 2% worth of her body weight in cubes, split into two feedings (works out to 5lbs twice daily).

To clarify, I *do* need to feed Vet E, salt and Flax while she is on the Timothy Balance cubes? Or should I wait for blood and hay testing until I add those?

She is not cold, its quite mild up here currently -- plus she has a nice wooly winter coat which is keeping her snug as a bug! I am however ordering her a rainsheet, as she is in a fairly open area during the day and I don't want the wind to make her cold.

I am thinking of taking her for a handwalk around the driveway, if she wants to. She has been happily walking in and out (on concrete even) and wondering around her pen.

I realize hay testing cannot be done, until I bring in squares for her. Unless I am able to put her back on free-choice rounds, with the main herd? Any thoughts on this? It would mean not being able to soak .. but if the quality is OK for an IR/Cushings horse?

I have been unable to find the ECH 2 Group .. Help!?


- Sarah in Washago, ON
Joined Feb '10

Re: Reply to "Ulcer Question" (of Feb. 2)

Joan and Dazzle

Hi hec,

Vet Pet Solutions recently changed their name and is also known as Thriving Pets.

You can find their website at

Joan and Dazzle
EC Primary Response Team
Anaheim, CA 2006

--- In EquineCushings@..., hecowan <hecowan@...> wrote:

where is the 'vet pet solutions' site?

Re: Files for horses that have passed

tomtriv <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>

Obviously, some of us that joined this group and posted files have since then lost our horses.
Do you want us to delete them so you have space for new ones.
Hi Carlynne,
My condolences for your loss of Patience. I remember reading about her. I'm not a moderator but I'm pretty sure the files/case histories should be left in the files when a member is no longer active in the group. Of course it really is up to the member.

Compiling and posting a case history (organized, detailed "journal")is not only needed for helping an individual horse but, especially when detailed properly, case histories are valuable records that can be used for information compiling.

Posting a case histories not only helps gurus to help a particular horse but the information in them can benefit other horses later. Posing a great way to "give back" to the group, but leaving the information available in the group is a really nice way of saying thank you to the group for the help received.

-LeeAnne 03/04
Newmarket, Ontario

Re: water consumption down

Theresa <tleri@...>

--- In EquineCushings@..., "briarskingstonnet" <briars@...> wrote:
No change in her pergolide dose(.5 mg.) and no change in hay or sterret pellets consumption. I do give her supplements at night. I am monitoring her carefully to look for a potential colic. We have had lots of rain in North.CA so I told her maybe she is just absorbing the rainwater! Not trying to make light of this, but I am stumped!! Thank you for the thoughts!

has decreased her water consumption drastically.
Have you changed her pergolide? Or could it have anything to do > You haven't changed the amount of dry food she gets?

Big help,right.Just more questions.

Lorna in Ontario

New TJ Update

Stuart Jacob <sjacob1875@...>

Just an update. TJ is not doing well again. Although he seems bright and continues to eat well, he is back in severe pain in his hooves. My vet still feels it is just pain and that we will not lie down enough so he is getting more sore. The plan now is to go back up to Bute at 2g twice a day through Friday. At that point if nothing changes, we are going to block his legs and take more x-rays. BTW, we ending up upping his pergolide but only to 2mg (1mg 2X day).
StuBucks County, PA 2009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: New to this all!!

Mandy Woods

Hi Sarah,
Welcome to the group. Thats great that you've been in the files and have started planning for your pony mare. Most ponies are IR just because they're ponies! As you read, you'll see that you have to reduce/maintain a low sugar/starch/fat diet for her.

The list philosophy is DDT/E.

Diagnosis is by bloodwork. Do NOT do the Dex Suppression test. A simple blood pull into a chilled purple top tube for the eACTH test is what this list recommends. Its *safe*. Then, to confirm IR and to see how severely she may be, pull blood for Insulin AND Glucose from the same draw. A thyroid panel would give you a base line. A low or sluggish thyroid is often improved by a balanced diet and the minerals Selenium and Iodine. Do NOT fast for these tests. Just feed her the ODTB cubes or soaked/drained grass hay. Reviewing the bloodtesting files will help you. Cornell is the lab most of us use. A 10 yo pony mare could be Cushings. What symptoms did your vet see to conclude this?

DIET should be low esc/s (sugar/starch). We aim for less than 10%. IF you have read about the Temporary Emergency Diet, you'll see that soaking grass hay for one hour in cold water can reduce sugars up to 30%. You said you have her on the cubes - if you can - keep feeding those. All you need to add is Vitamin E, loose table salt and freshly ground flax seed. Is she overweight? What does she tape at? She should be fed 1.5% - 2.% her body weight a day in dry hay. Gets hanging scales and weigh her hay. She should not be carrying extra weight if she's foundered. NO Grains. No pasture, apples, carrots, treats, red salt blocks. Stop the Purina Equalizer.

Trim should be a balanced foot with the heels lowered and the toes backed. You can tape pads to her feet for comfort. If she's cold, you can put socks on her, shipping wraps and a blanket. Horses/ponies that cant move about to get warm need help. If her feet are small enough, you can get some sneakers at the Build a Bear store! Xrays would be great.

Exercise **IF** she is able. Dont force her to move. Its good that you are reducing her bute.

Plan on testing your hay. We recommend and the test The Trainer #603/$49. IT tells you the sugar/starch and minerals plus more. Then you'll have your hay minerals balanced. This will be great for all your horses. Time frame for feeding regular hay? It depends on the hay analysis. Soak untested hay to be safe. I"d keep her on the ODTB cubes for safety and convienence.

Sarah, you are doing a great job. Now we need you to join the ECH2 group and fill out a Case HIstory. Then, include the link to your case when you write. Keep reading the files. Ask questions and we'll help.

Mandy in VA
EC First Responder
OCT 2003

Re: Reply to "Ulcer Question" (of Feb. 2)


hello susan,

i am interested in this question too. where is the 'vet pet solutions' site? my search of yahoogroups did not find anything by that name and google produced a large number of sites without a forum.

thank you for your time and assistance.


Re: Reply to "Ulcer Question" (of Feb. 2)
Posted by: "palomino.1982" sbaumgardner@... palomino.1982
Date: Sun Feb 7, 2010 11:26 am ((PST))

Hi Martha,

You can do a search on omeprazole or read the Ulcer file. Here is
a post from Vet Pet Solutions that you can show your vet:

Message #86592

EC PrimaryResponse
San Diego 1/07

My vet insists that Gastrogard is more effective, so much so
that he will not issue to me a 'scrip for the generic powder.

New to this all!!

Sarah <s.w.lloyd@...>

Hi everyone. I will warn you, this COULD turn into something similar to a short essay ;)

My coming 10-year-old Welsh pony mare "Princess" was diagnosed as having a laminitic episode on Thursday evening. She presented with severe lameness on both front hooves, did NOT want to walk or bear weight solely on either front hooves, as well as heat around the coronet bands. I started her on bute immediately and restricted her hay intake (normally on free-choice).

The following afternoon, the vet came to see her and gave the diagnosis of laminitis/founder. He also brought up the fact that she seems to show probably signs of Cushings and possibly IR as well. We have opted NOT to test for those, until we have this laminitis under control though. He was looking at doing the Dex Suppression test, but I am planning on pushing for the ACTH test instead.

On the plus side, she is recovering well on bute, stalled in deep bedding at night and individual "dry lot" turnout and has been started on the Timothy Balance Cubes, in lieu of hay since Tuesday evening. She is much sounder and is being treated and weaned off of the bute, over a 6 day period. The farrier is coming to see her in the next 24 to 48 hours, as she is a few weeks overdue for a trim, I realized!

I believe the trigger was me allowing my 2-year-old neice to feed her approx 2 cups of Baby Carrots -- Ooops!! Though the vet pointed out it seems that she had foundered before, because of certain rings on her hooves. I recall the farrier commenting a few trims ago (November-ish?) that she seemed to have "started" to founder, then stopped (there was widening of the white line and some bruising appearing when he lightly rasped the bottom) He said it didn't seem to be a problem and just to keep an eye on it. We have only owned her since mid June and bought her from an Auction, so who knows whether she has an extensive history of this, or not!

So here come the questions ;)

What is the time frame for looking at putting her back on our regular grass hay? (We bought 5 bags of the Timothy Balance in the first go and are prepared to keep her on that as long as nessecary, if that is the way to go though!)

I guess she will need to be kept on "dry lot" turnout - or turnout with the Mini I suppose! - to allow us to ration her hay, once she is on hay? (Regularly our herd is on a free-choice roundbale of grass hay and 24-hour turnout, by the way.)

Something just occured to me; should I have her tested for IR and Cushings, before switching her back to hay? That way we know what we are dealing with ... ? Hmm.

She was on Purina's Equalizer prior to this and I don't think that was part of what caused her founder/laminitis. But if she is IR, would it be a good idea to keep her off of this permanently? I am looking at trying Hoffmans Minerals instead -- thoughts?

I've never had my hay tested, so am looking at what is involved. I realized, that if she needs rationed hay I will need to bring in a whole 'nother batch of squares to feed (only have rounds), so would need to hold of testing till they came in, anyways!

On the plus side, I keep her at home, so I am able to do basically whatever turnout and feed options are best for her and her condition(s) :)

This is such a whole, new kettle of fish for me -- talk about a brain overload!!!


- Sarah

Re: Boots suitable for riding

Sarah <s.w.lloyd@...>

I needed a pair of hoof boots, for my Thoroughbred who was being treated for a severe clubbed hoof (without the traditional use of shoes). I opted for Boa Boots by Easy Care Inc. Great boots; have stayed on walk/trot/canter, as well as for dressage and jumping. I like them because they have a good grip on grass and even on the road, where I do a large part of my schooling. They are quite resonably priced as well!

- Sarah

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Kelly" <kellysbrightstar@...> wrote:

I've used Easycare Epics for years and never had a problem with twisting or coming off. I haven't had success with Renegades. For some reason the pair I have twist on Lady's feet.

Kelly & Lady
Oregon 11/08

Hi- I am looking for a pair of boots suitable for riding. I used to have a pair of old macs which did a good job but they did come off if we went faster than a trot.

Aspirin use


Does the list have any new info about aspirin use?

My (new) vet has recommended that I start using aspirin for my mare's soreness.

A brief history:

Sheena had cold induced laminitis develop mid-December. Around November 1st, I made her barefoot in the front for the 1st time in probably 5 - 6 years. Sheena's walk has been easy except for turning where she shows lameness. Feb 3rd xrays showed that her toe had grown excessively long yet no navicular problems. The vet recommended corrective trimming & to keep her shod - done Feb. 5th. She also recommended a 1 week bute taper (1 mg 2x/day x 4 days then 1 mg/day x 3 days) with a loading dose of aspirin (1 tablespoon {½ oz = 7080 mg} 2x/day x 1 week) then down to ½ tablespoon (3540 mg) once a day continuously.

Her diet is tight:

Soaked hay with custom supplement as created by Kathleen Gustafson
1.5 mg pergolide
2000 IU Vit E
1 scoop Phytoquench
Free choice iodized salt
5.5 oz stabilized ground flax seed
Midvalley Milling lo-carb hay pellets with it's supplement

The vet is not familiar with Phytoquench. Does anyone know of any interactions with the Phytoquench? Any other concerns?


Barb & Sheena - 27 ½ yr old ½ Arab mare
10/04 - EC/IR laminitis

Re: Boots suitable for riding

Saucier Kathy

These boots come highly recommended although I have no personal experience with them. Developed by an endurance rider who was tired of boots coming off, wearing out quickly or rubbing. Click on "install/remove" and then click on video. Good detailed video of how they go on. There is a measurement page on there too.
(I do not sell these nor do I profit or even know anyone who profits from these, I've just heard rave revues that they are better than anything out there)
Kathy S.

--- In EquineCushings@..., "woodsarahgreen" <sarah_greenwood@...> wrote:
Hi- I am looking for a pair of boots suitable for riding....

Diffrence between Magnesium carbonate and Magnesium Citrate


Hello all,

Can someone please tell me the diffrence between Magnesium Carbonate and Magnesium Citrate?

Very appreciative for this site and all the help
Balancing minerals now for a short while and my horse has had 2 good days in a row. Not as tender footed. It's great to see him trot off, buck and jump up and be silly of his own accord. What a site, made me cry. There is hope. I am not giving up!

Sylvie and Chip(21), Ontario Canada
Jan 2010

gastro gard


Is gastro gard safe for an IR/cushings horse ? I was directed to give 1 tube daily for 2 weeks then 1/2 tube for the remaining 2 weeks.

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