Date   

Pony in crisis NO possible cause?? a bit long to catch up...

bigwhitevan2002
 

No possible cause....That I can think of.
Hello Groupies,
long time no see, getting to the point~~~~~
Pony Is having an unidentifiable crises,bit o history.....

past 4 years doing well on mid vally feed on private lease with a pony clubber. last sept '09 returned to us looked great. around oct '09 I switched her to OTCB cubes for convience of having the minerals already mixed in for the BO. Took right to them.

Dec '09( I think Kathleen and Mandy might know I wrote to them) I lost a brain cell and forgot to reorder the cubes so grabbed what I thought was triple crown lite instead got safe starch...read the lable and ignored the littel voice in the back of my mind that said this doest seem right...

Pony comes up with hot feet lame in both fronts I quickly stop all of the triple crown and go on an emergency diet until the cubes come in.

Ever since then she has been okay with an occasanial sore front left mid january '10 she is getting more sore so we pad her feet for a while and things improve, farrier says she is slightly sore on one part of her front left nothing big it seems to go away then pops up off and on. We put boots on her so she can be hand walked in the arena for 10 minutes or so and this helps she can walk easy and even a trot is accepted.

today she is dead on lame both fronts wont take a step without pain I found her in her sand/pea gravel paddock laying down refusing to get up I had to help her when attempted to lift up her foot she collapsed down THAT much pain!! managed to ease her into her in her stall with 3 large bales of pine shavings which she moved easier on.. she is eating well and alert. shedding like crazy already .

last blood work was done 3 years ago. I have the vet out in the morning to do a full work up I/G ACTH CBC etc.. new vet argued a bit with me about the ACTH but knew better than the dex at this point...

Could the cubes be too much S/S etc for her... could pergolide be the missing link??? I am at a loss she is only on The OTCB has a sand/pea gravel paddock no green no hay nothing else.

LOng post but its been a while

why would she be so critical on such a tight diet

thanks for any thoughts.
Julie ( without Cinderella)
Oct '05

http://www.sportshorses.com/cases/bigwhitevan2002.LilBritches.htm


Re: supplement for ir laminitic prone horse

briarskingstonnet <briars@...>
 

Its Purinas Enrich 32, NSC 10%. I compared it to 5 different other
complete pelleted vitamin supps and it has the most vitamins/min
then any other supp I looked at. All my horses are on it, even my IR
mare and they all look and feel great.
I'd be hesitant to feed this to my IR boys.

http://horse.purinamills.com/products/Enrich32.asp

Did you call them to ask about the NSC,Julie?I don't see it on their web site,but may have missed it.

Equi-Min isn't a pellet,but it has higher levels of traces.It's Purina Agri-Brands,so I'm not sure if we're comparing apples and apples or not.

I'd just encourage anyone considering it for IR horses to be picky about the details before using it.

Having said that,it's great it is working so well for your horses,Julie.

Lorna in Ontario
Support/Moderator
2002


Re: supplement for ir laminitic prone horse

Linda <PapBallou@...>
 

Its Purinas Enrich 32, NSC 10%.
One of the things that is often *lost* in the search for something safe to feed an IR horse is fat content. It is a trend to add fat to many supplements, and many even boast about the amount of fat they've added.

Enrich 32 is 5%(min) fat, which means it could indeed be higher. Fat can induce or worsen IR.

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/106608>

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/120961>

The fat in this product and many others is Omega6, which is pro-inflammatory. A horse's natural diet (grazing on grass 24/7) consists of mostly Omega3 - the anti-inflammatory fatty acid. The Omega3/Omega6 ratio in grass is most closely found in 2-4 ounces of ground flax seed.

Many IR horses cannot tolerate added Omega6 fats.

Just some food for thought when looking at safe products. It's not all about sugar and starch.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: supplement for ir laminitic prone horse

Julie Warne <jwarne42@...>
 

I can tell you what I used for my mare.
It worked great for her with no issues.
We dont test our hay since we get it from different suppliers.
Its Purinas Enrich 32, NSC 10%. I compared it to 5 different other
complete pelleted vitamin supps and it has the most vitamins/min
then any other supp I looked at. All my horses are on it, even my IR
mare and they all look and feel great.
 
It is a bit pricey. $25/50 lbs, but you only feed 1-2 lbs a day depending on need.
 
I dont know about the the yeast and oxide part. Ive never had an issue with her since I put her on Enrich.
 
Julie

--- On Thu, 2/25/10, Linda <PapBallou@...> wrote:


From: Linda <PapBallou@...>
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: supplement for ir laminitic prone horse
To: EquineCushings@...
Date: Thursday, February 25, 2010, 7:41 PM


 



can anyone recommend a supplement that contains a mix of the beneficial and crucial vitamins/minerals/ amino acids/yeast/ nitrous oxide,etc.,that is critical in possibly warding off future episodes.
Hi -

Actually, no! The best supplement program for ANY horse is knowing what is missing or excess in your hay and then balancing to that. There might be a supplement on the market that comes close, but it's not likely, and you won't know until you test your hay.

Additionally, commercial supplements focus on the trace minerals since they are a little more predictable than the majors, which usually are not included except in small amounts. There are a few that are for *IR* type horses that will be appropriately generous in magnesium and chromium.

I have not heard of a supplement that adds a nitric oxide enhancing source. Jiaogulan and AAKG are what many horses on this list are on, but they need to be feed on an empty stomach...so doubtful you will find them in a supplement.

So the answer to warding off future events is to know exactly what you are dealing with by lab work (glucose and insulin for IR, and ACTH for cushings if appropriate by age), feed a low sugar/starch forage based diet with minerals balanced to it; good hoof form, and exercise!

Where are you located? There are a couple of products that have been formulated with specific regions in mind based on known typical excesses and deficits.

Do you want to tell us a bit about the horse in question?

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: New website link on the brochure

Saucier Kathy
 

Thanks Nancy. It'll probalby be in a month, for spring shots.
I had heard they were suggesting a Cushing's test for one of the older horses here but some "terms" weren't quite right. So I wanted to have the brochure ready to give them. Love that new website because I've heard several people say they would go in and read the website but weren't wanting to join a Yahoo group to get the info. So at least we can get the info out when that is the case.
Kathy S.
2005
Texas

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Nancy" <threecatfarm@...> wrote:

Workin' on it.....When are you seeing your vets?
Nancy C in NH


Gizmo update: poor lab results, new x-rays/pictures

Dawn <dlgiroux@...>
 

Hi All,

Gizmo has had a tough Fall/Winter. He began to falter in the Fall-sore, not wanting to go out) I increased his Pergolide, (from 2-2.5mg/day) but it did not seem to help. I got help from a new farrier and he dramatically changed his feet in Nov-that looked like it was going to help...but he has spent most of the Winter in his stall, too sore to go out on the hard ground. Boots did not help. I have had new blood-work done, even though I knew it was early in the season. The results were not good.

I don't know that there is much else I can try, but thought I'd ask for thoughts anyway.

Here are the links: http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory2/files/Dawn%20Giroux/ (updated history)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHoof/photos/album/538961516/pic/list (new pics and x-rays)

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/girouxdigger/ (old history)

Any thoughts are appreciated-thank you,

Dawn and Gizzmo in RI

Nov '08


Re: supplement for ir laminitic prone horse

Linda <PapBallou@...>
 

can anyone recommend a supplement that contains a mix of the beneficial and crucial vitamins/minerals/amino acids/yeast/nitrous oxide,etc.,that is critical in possibly warding off future episodes.
Hi -

Actually, no! The best supplement program for ANY horse is knowing what is missing or excess in your hay and then balancing to that. There might be a supplement on the market that comes close, but it's not likely, and you won't know until you test your hay.

Additionally, commercial supplements focus on the trace minerals since they are a little more predictable than the majors, which usually are not included except in small amounts. There are a few that are for *IR* type horses that will be appropriately generous in magnesium and chromium.

I have not heard of a supplement that adds a nitric oxide enhancing source. Jiaogulan and AAKG are what many horses on this list are on, but they need to be feed on an empty stomach...so doubtful you will find them in a supplement.

So the answer to warding off future events is to know exactly what you are dealing with by lab work (glucose and insulin for IR, and ACTH for cushings if appropriate by age), feed a low sugar/starch forage based diet with minerals balanced to it; good hoof form, and exercise!

Where are you located? There are a couple of products that have been formulated with specific regions in mind based on known typical excesses and deficits.

Do you want to tell us a bit about the horse in question?

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Peruvian mare update

laceygrey880
 

Hi,
My mare, Querida, has just had her 2nd trim and is progressing well.
The new hoof growth is amazing in 2 1/2 weeks.
We are to start hand walking on our pea gravel driveway. Yea!

The Pergolide has seemed to make all the difference.
She started it on Feb 8th and within five days was moving in her paddock.
She is also still on the Thyro-L, tight diet and soaked hay.
Once again, thanks to all for your encouragement and the "right
advice".
The swelling of her udder has almost gone, and she is alert and
bright again.

How soon would I do another blood test for the insulin/ glucose?

Her file is in the ec2group under Lacey and Querida.
I haven't been able to get it to copy into this e-mail.

Lacey
Jan 2010
B.C.


supplement for ir laminitic prone horse

smschachter <smschachter@...>
 

can anyone recommend a supplement that contains a mix of the beneficial and crucial vitamins/minerals/amino acids/yeast/nitrous oxide,etc.,that is critical in possibly warding off future episodes.

thank you,
s. schachter


Re: balancing high manganese

 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "shalfari" <lee.proctor@...> wrote:

Well that was what I thought but I am not so sure anymore as my horses live a very good diet, good environment, good trim life. See here at www.performancebarefoot.co.uk

I shall report back if it solves my problem, if not I shall keep searching.
Is there something else missing - essential fatty acids, adequate protein? Can you describe the abscessing? Solar abscess or coming out at the coronary band (assuming you mean hoof abscess)? What about the skin condition? Is it all horses? If not - can you identify a common denominator?

Thanks,

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
EC List Support Team/Moderator
MO - Dec 2005
http://www.ecirhorse.com


Re: New website link on the brochure

Nancy C
 

Workin' on it.....When are you seeing your vets?

Nancy C in NH
February 2003
Moderator

Visit our new site:
http://www.ecirhorse.com/

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Gary & Kathy" <gksaucier@...> wrote:
Could that be added to this file so we can point someone to this website as well as our Yahoo group?


Re: New member and proud owner?NOW Pergolide File

palomino.1982 <sbaumgardner@...>
 

Hi Chris,

In the files section in the folder "Drugs, Pergolide, Cushings Disease
Treatments"
http://tinyurl.com/2alwqb

Let us know if you still can't access the file

Susan
ECPrimary Response
San Diego 1.07
...........................................

Hi, I am interested in reading the Pergolide 101 article but can't get the link to work.
What's the name of the file it is in?


Re: New member and proud owner of 29 yr old with cushings

muff747
 

Ok, I found the file, thanks.
Chris?Matty UK 07/09

What's the name of the file it is in?
Chris/Matty UK 07/09

--- In EquineCushings@..., "bmccray12000" <bmccray@> wrote:


nose infection

tootsie2toes2
 

My horse has been on pergolide for 7 years and doing well. 14 months ago, he developed a fast-growing infection on his nose in and around right nostril. With SMZs and antiobiotic/anti-fungal shampoo, it went away. Last month it returned. After 10 days of SMZs and shampooing, it looked ok, but 2 weeks later, it has reappeared and I'm on the SMZs and shampooing again. Does anyone have similar infections on their horse on the face. It almost seems like a fungus because the skin gets darker, but since the antibiotics clear it up, I assume it is bacterial. I'm going to go 14 days this time with the medication. I am 7 days into it, and there is still a dime-sized sore. If I leave it, it will spread quickly. His insulin level is still not normal----in the 70s. He is on 1 3/4 mg./day. I'll try posting a picture of his initial infection on the Photos page here.

Thanks,
Judy and Dandy


Re: balancing high manganese

shalfari
 

I would be thinking more along the lines of what caused the abscessing in the first place such as stretched white line, laminitis, hoof wall flaring from inadequate trims, etc.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
EC List Support Team/Moderator
MO - Dec 2005
http://www.ecirhorse.com/

Well that was what I thought but I am not so sure anymore as my horses live a very good diet, good environment, good trim life. See here at www.performancebarefoot.co.uk

I shall report back if it solves my problem, if not I shall keep searching.

Cheers

Sarah
N.Wales UK
02/10


Re: balancing high manganese

shalfari
 

If you do end up liming those fields, let me know how that works out when you get your analysis on this years hay.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
EC List Support Team/Moderator
MO - Dec 2005
http://www.ecirhorse.com/
Will do just that as it is all most fascinating.

Cheers for the help.

Sarah
N.Wales UK
02/10


Re: Is March too early to do the ACTH test?

Dave & Donna <ironhoss1994@...>
 

I also would like to know because I have an old mare who was diagnosed borderline Cushings in the fall.

Another question: if a horse is IR and is being well maintained by diet and showing nome of the signs of being IR currently, will testing diagnose the underlying IR condition? I ask because I put a mare of mine on an IR diet without testing her (vet at the time was not helpful about her fatty teats and fat deposits, I changed vets later), she is doing well, but if I need to have the old mare tested, I might start a file on this mare also. I had posted my hay results for the old mare but couldn't figure out how to balance it and then had to put the old mare on different hay for her health issues and got sidetracked by that issue.

Donna


Re: New member and proud owner of 29 yr old with cushings

muff747
 

Hi, I am interested in reading the Pergolide 101 article but can't get the link to work.
What's the name of the file it is in?
Chris/Matty UK 07/09

--- In EquineCushings@..., "bmccray12000" <bmccray@...> wrote:


New website link on the brochure

Saucier Kathy
 

I was checking out the brochure that is under the "6 EC Education" file "Recognizing & Treating Equine Cushing's" that we can print and give to people and couldn't find that the new website www.ecirhorse.com was on there. Could that be added to this file so we can point someone to this website as well as our Yahoo group?
I have new vets and want to hand them this next time I see them. Although I no longer have a C's horse I stay on the group to keep up to date. When I hear a vet is recommending tests we don't recommend or anyone using terms that aren't entirely correct, I try to educate them kindly. This brochure is a great tool.

If I missed it and the website is already on there, just let me know where I missed it.
Thanks,
Kathy S.
2005
Texas


ASB IR- test/ update

pam bond-Simmons
 

Removed rice bran and trying to feed BP and 1C.Triple Crown Lo Starch added 2x a day because she absolutely hates BP. Very picky eater.Free choice grass hay. Hay Analysis not back yet. Monday had sand colic vet used bio sponge,bismuth,banamine. Some blood work back: Glucose 120 (high?) Elevated liver enzymes, normal white blood count, insulin back Friday. Refuses to eat psyllium in feed with nurtients. Can't get ODTB until next Tuesday.Can get ODT orange label. Can I use this? Still has laminitis(why sand stall and run) put styrofoam blocks over shoes Monday also,helped pain. Also giving bismuth per vet since sand colic. Testing shows sand in manure, fixed matted feeding area in stall.She seems content but laminitis still big issue(started 12/16).Vet wants to keep her on isoxsuprine, previcox, thyroid L.

pam/Colorado
February 2010

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