Date   

Homeopathy in Horses Reviewed

Lynn Swearingen <lynngs@...>
 


Re: turmeric

crni@att.net
 

I've been feeding turmeric to my horse for a while, 1 -2 TBSPS per day along with the other supps. When my horse was having some acute undiagnosed GI issues, a holistic vet gave me a formula to be used as an anti-inflammatory. Turmeric is such a good antioxidant without any toxicity that I know of, that I have kept on feeding. When there was a mild laminitic episode, I doubled the dose.
This is the formula that was given to me. 2 parts ground turmeric/1part ground ginger/ 2 parts lecithin power. I just bought a pound of each organic and mixed in the appropriate parts by volume. The lecithin cuts the herbs and smoothes out the taste. My horse hated it at first, but then gobbled it up. The turmeric is mild so that herb is no problem, but the ginger is strong. The dose for the mixture for my horse, who is about 1700 #s, is 3 TBSP 1-2 X per day. This formulas was specific for my horses issues, so I would urge you to consult with a holistic veterinarian before using. I'm writing this so that people might have an example on how the herbs are used. The vet I consulted with was Dr. Chris King, http://www.animavet.com/drking.html
Diana in Redding, CA


Re: New to list - I'm also new to list - Meg

meg_findhorse
 

Howdy! Kathy, we have to meet sometime. I emailed Mandy a thanks.

Update:
He seems better today when he came walking up was not walking as splayed and stiffly. He still isn't his normal self yet. Let him out of corral past midnight last night after 2 measured meals of soaked Bermuda. He likes to lay down on a sloped hill where saw them both again this morning before dawn resting. They are currently eating more soaked hay together, as figure might as well soak more and let them both have it. Probably put him back in corral again to keep off grass during rest of day into evening, then let him back out again in evening to morning.

Read last night that Bermuda is a C4 grass, think that means warm temp grass. It doesn't have fructan, but instead has starch. Soaking in hot water is best to leach out the starch, so will make sure to take that into account. A study soaking with only cold water for 60 minutes didn't make much difference in the sugars, but did lower potassium for Bermuda. Bermuda is a lower glycemic index hay compared to many others, so that's on my side.

I have a cooler with wheels that found is perfect to stuff in about 8 pounds of dry hay, so can bring back and forth into the house to add the hot water from sink for soaking. Should make the soaking process not bad to do. Think the extra moisture would be good for them vs the dry hay. The soaked Bermuda almost looks like grass again. My only concern is if they don't finish that any left out could go bad, so gotta watch that.

We'll hopefully get everything sorted out. Saddles, what they should eat and new tires for our trailer too.

Now how many months does it take for a horse to lose the weight, assuming on a better calorie balance? I can't figure this out for people or my one overweight cat, so not sure how to figure for horse either.

Meg F

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Gary & Kathy" <gksaucier@...> wrote:

Meg, here we cross paths again! I am so sorry to hear about your Icey but so glad you found this group. I know 5 years ago this whole experience with IR (& Cushing's in our case) changed how I looked at those lush grassy pastures.

You are in the best hands.
Mandy gave you great advice!
Create the case history so they can best help you, read files, ask questions.
The files are so full of information. This experience will cause you to be miles ahead of others in your knowledge of horse nutrition and care. That's the good side.
Check out the "Safe Feed" file for info on how to get the ODTB cubes here in north TX if you end up going this route versus soaked hay.
Again, you are in GOOD HANDS here.

Kathy
in North Texas
January 2005 - Magic who crossed the rainbow bridge July 2008

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Aspirin alternatives

Don <don@...>
 

My apologies, Karen. These reminder posts from support are not supposed to be displayed in the public forum. I slipped and forgot to exclude the ECushings etc. address and then failed to paste your email address into the "To:" field.

Clumsy and caused most likely by being short a second cup of coffee.

Mea culpa.

My face is red.

Don - Pacific Northwest U.S.
11/2007
EC List Support Team

Visit the new Cushings and IR site:
http://www.ecirhorse.com/




Hi Karen,

Hopefully you'll quickly find a solution to your question for Danny.
[..]


Re: Aspirin alternatives

Don <don@...>
 

Hi Karen,

Hopefully you'll quickly find a solution to your question for Danny.

Please help us keep track and respond more quickly to questions by
including in your signature your location and the date of your joining
ECushings?
Responders and support people attempting to answer are helped immensely
with this information.

Much thanks.
Don - Pacific Northwest U.S.
11/2007
EC List Support Team

Visit the new Cushings and IR site:
http://www.ecirhorse.com/


pasture46514 wrote:


Hi all - been a while since I've been here but have been reading the
files for info on yucca (bad) and devils claw (good). Danny was having
a tooth problem that was causing him enough pain that he could hardly
eat so I gave him 2 gm. bute AM&PM until the vet could fix the
problem. (about 1 week.) What a difference I saw in him! Although he
had no other obvious signs, it made me realize he must've been having
pain somewhere else because he trotted around the pasture like nobodys
business. Was going to use BL Solution until I read about the yucca.
I've tried Claire's samples in the past but Mr. Picky Pants won't eat
them so if anyone could offer other suggestions for long term pain
relief I'd sure appreciate them. (he's 20, arthritic,cushings,IR.)

Thanks,
Karen


Re: New to list - I'm also new to list - Meg

Saucier Kathy
 

Meg, here we cross paths again! I am so sorry to hear about your Icey but so glad you found this group. I know 5 years ago this whole experience with IR (& Cushing's in our case) changed how I looked at those lush grassy pastures.

You are in the best hands.
Mandy gave you great advice!
Create the case history so they can best help you, read files, ask questions.
The files are so full of information. This experience will cause you to be miles ahead of others in your knowledge of horse nutrition and care. That's the good side.
Check out the "Safe Feed" file for info on how to get the ODTB cubes here in north TX if you end up going this route versus soaked hay.
Again, you are in GOOD HANDS here.

Kathy
in North Texas
January 2005 - Magic who crossed the rainbow bridge July 2008


Amber's ACTH Results

 

Just got my results back from Cornell on Amber's ACTH (34.3 pg/ml) and insulin (10.69 ulU/mL)(RISQ - 0.31)

Question: Is her ACTH close enough to 35 that I should consider Pergolide this fall? My vet doesn't think I should but he can be convinced. She has no symptoms of Cushings but she is 25 years old.

Another question: Since my vet didn't test for glucose and only for insulin, how good or bad is a RISQ of 0.31?

Thanks
Jean in sunny South Carolina
August 2004


Annual vaccination question - again

Linda Rollins <lindarollins38@...>
 

The question gets asked every year!


http://www.equinewnv.com/index.shtml

The RECOMBITEK® rWNV-EWT is a combo of 4.


This vaccination is recommend by Dr. Kellon
This is just West Nile: RECOMBITEK® Equine rWNV vaccine

So, what do we do about East Nile & Tetanus?

Linda
Linda in MA, Peanut in CT
9/07


Re: help with vitamins and minerals

palomino.1982 <sbaumgardner@...>
 

Hi Marlene,

Here is the link for Sourcing Supplements. Many of our members mix their horse(s) balanced mineral mixes. Quality of ingredient and price savings are our goal. If you order from HorseTech- mention Mark Rashid and you will receive 10% off total order.

Sourcing Suggestions:
http://tinyurl.com/yjrar3j

I have been mixing balanced minerals for 3 years for my 2 horses
( 1 IR and 1 senior horse)

Susan
ECPrimary Response
San Diego 1.07

EC/IR website:
http://www.ecirhorse.com


Aspirin alternatives

pasture46514
 

Hi all - been a while since I've been here but have been reading the files for info on yucca (bad) and devils claw (good). Danny was having a tooth problem that was causing him enough pain that he could hardly eat so I gave him 2 gm. bute AM&PM until the vet could fix the problem. (about 1 week.) What a difference I saw in him! Although he had no other obvious signs, it made me realize he must've been having pain somewhere else because he trotted around the pasture like nobodys business. Was going to use BL Solution until I read about the yucca. I've tried Claire's samples in the past but Mr. Picky Pants won't eat them so if anyone could offer other suggestions for long term pain relief I'd sure appreciate them. (he's 20, arthritic,cushings,IR.)

Thanks,
Karen


help with vitamins and minerals

Marlene
 

Hi all, I would like to start balancing my own vitamins and minerals and was wondering if anyone here has a source for buying them in bulk. I would like to use human grade vit/min if possiable. I have looked through the information on the web site but didn't find anything related to buying vit/mins only balancing them. Thank you for your help. Marlene, Four the Horse.


Re: Clarification Platinum Performance & Adaptogens

JanMEvans
 

RE: the adaptogens: Sheena had her first bout of cold-induced laminitis in 4 - 5 yrs this past winter. I'm looking at being more proactive this year. I'm willing to play around with things. Cost is a big issue as I don't want to purchase something $$$ just to find out it doesn't fit us. I read about the gal in North Caroline who bought the 1st 3 ingredients of APF in the powder form. Since we only have about 2 weeks of really cold weather per year (usually shows up in December) I'm thinking of starting around 12/1 & monitoring her around that time.
My IR mare (diagnosed 11/09) many bouts of laminitis over the years was still ouchy after I balanced her diet last fall (thanks to this list!). I bought some shipping boots on ebay and put them on her when the nights were getting cold. 20 degrees would make her ouchy, but with the boots she was fine. With a better trim and (I'm assuming) more controlled IR she went through a 5 degree night a few weeks ago without the 'leg warmers' and any symptoms.
So, you might consider keeping her warm when the weather gets cold--especially because you don't have much cold weather. It's definitely something you can monitor.
Jan, Jasmine, OpieCentral Colorado10/09

Jan Evans

Nothing Sells Like Your Success!

Freelance Writer: Success Stories, Case Studies

www.janevans.com

154 Burroback Court

Cotopaxi, CO 81223

(719)942-4618




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Clarification Platinum Performance & Adaptogens

 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "KFG" <katmando@...> wrote:

Flaxseed (whole or oil) has a n-3:n-6 ratio of 4:1. Unless there is another pure n-3 essential fatty acid added to PP, a ratio of 8:1 cannot be achieved with flax alone.
Barb,

Me again - adding more to this message. I looked at the oil product, "Contribute" and it has a higher n-3:n-6 ratio because it has added fish oil. I am a huge proponent of fish oil in humans but I find myself reluctant to suggest it for herbivores. When recommending n-3s for horses, alpha-linolenic acid, the natural source found in grass and flaxseed, seems a better choice.

Curiosity killed me, so I entered the PP into your spreadsheet. If you used this product you would have to add even more copper and zinc to offset the high iron in the PP. Interestingly, the PP product has a Fe:Cu ratio of 20:1 and Zn:Mn:Cu ratios of 10:10:1. It brings your base zinc up to NRC minimum RDA, but still leaves you with a copper deficiency. With your forage and only the PP, your trace mineral ratios would be Fe:Cu=23:1, Zn:Cu=4:1, Mn:Cu=11:1, an unacceptable difference compared the balanced ratios you are currently feeding and copper deficient to boot! Bottom line, the product does more harm than good.

There are added amino acids, but your hay doesn't need additional protein. There's glucosamine, vitamin A, D, and a lot of B-vitamins which may not do any harm, but there are probably better ways to supplement these than adding a high iron product.

The major minerals are not affected by the product because it provides minuscule amounts.

If the bottom line is easing her arthritic discomfort, there are several different strategies that others here have had plenty of experience with.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
EC List Support Team/Moderator
MO - Dec 2005
http://www.ecirhorse.com/


Re: New to list - will more than likely lurk/muzzles

Lorna <briars@...>
 

My favorite muzzle is the "Tough1". Catalogs have this and some tack shops.
This is mine,too,Mandy.
I still have the ones(3) I bought several years ago,although one is being helped along with some duct tape now.
There are several varieties.I use the one with the woven material basket, which is all one piece,no halter required.
I have made a little plug for the hole ,and duct taped it on from the outside,for the mule's.

Picture here:
http://www.chicksaddlery.com/page/CDS/PROD/0003/MZ9661

Lorna in Ontario
Support/Moderator
2002


Re: Clarification Platinum Performance & Adaptogens

 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Barb" <dancinglight29@...> wrote:

Thanks Linda -


Does she want you to scrap all you are doing now and simply change to this?
By my understanding, no. My understanding is that she would like to keep the rest & recalculate the supplement to fit both the hay & the PP.

Why is your vet wanting you to change?
Hey Barb,

Flaxseed (whole or oil) has a n-3:n-6 ratio of 4:1. Unless there is another pure n-3 essential fatty acid added to PP, a ratio of 8:1 cannot be achieved with flax alone.

Would it help if I plugged the recommended amount of PP into your spreadsheet so you can show your vet how miserably it fails as a supplement for your forage? Seems like an awfully expensive way to provide flax, which you're already giving! Sometimes seeing the numbers in graphic form is a huge reality check.

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
EC List Support Team/Moderator
MO - Dec 2005
http://www.ecirhorse.com/


Re: Case HX for Fury Sharpless

tomtriv <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>
 

Hi Mandy,
Thanks for mentioning this muzzle. I didn't know about it and have added it to the "Also See" section of the folder "Pulling it Together" in the Table of Contents.
-LeeAnne 03/04
ECIR File Clerk
Newmarket, Ont


tech troubles

Linda Rollins <lindarollins38@...>
 

I just wanted to let you know tha I am having tech troubles and limited computer access at the moment.
Linda


Re: Clarification Platinum Performance & Adaptogens

Linda <PapBallou@...>
 

My understanding is that she would like to keep the rest & recalculate the supplement to fit both the hay & the PP.

Hi Barb:

I've listed some of the guaranteed analysis below. This is why I think many folks think this a such a big deal...all those amino acids. The fact most likely is that these are not added at all, but are simply the amino acids associated with the plant products in PP. Amino acid profiles of typical forages/grains are published in the NRC recommendations. Methionine and lysine are sometimes added in larger amounts.

Amino Acids

Arginine (Min) 2020mg
Glycine (Min) 1294mg
Methionine (Min) 436mg
Isoleucine (Min) 845mg
Leucine (Min) 1399mg
Valine (Min) 1254mg
Lysine (Min) 1122mg
Tyrosine (Min) 581mg
Cystine (Min) 422mg
Glutamine (Min) 4528mg
Phenylalanine (Min) 1016mg
Threonine (Min) 858mg
Aspartic Acid (Min) 2297mg
Alanine (Min) 1096mg
Histidine (Min) 1082mg
Tryptophan (Min) 383mg
L-Carnitine (Min) 26mg
Proline (Min) 700mg

Yes, it does have vitamin E but it is not in oil, so that diminishes the ability of the body to absorb it.

Calcium (Min) 396mg
Calcium (Max) 528mg
Phosphorus (Min) 1060mg
Sodium (Min) 130mg
Soduim (Max) 265mg
Magnesium (Min) 540mg
Potassium (Min) 1320mg
Chloride (Min) 250mg
sulfur (Min) 475.2mg

Major minerals are supplemented in grams...not milligrams as this product does. Still, if this balances anyone's hay - great. But, I typically have to add 7 grams of calcium and 12 grams of phosphorus.

I really do get riled up about claims attributed to a product because there is a lot of stuff in there...product merchandising...

Is APF something that is also given with the NOS?
J and NOS (AAKG) are the two that are commonly paired, but you can use APF/AAKG. Maybe this post might help:

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/122610>

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Clarification Platinum Performance & Adaptogens

dancinglight29
 

Thanks Linda -


Does she want you to scrap all you are doing now and simply change to this?
By my understanding, no. My understanding is that she would like to keep the rest & recalculate the supplement to fit both the hay & the PP.

Why is your vet wanting you to change?
I think that she was looking at cost (she was thinking that we could get it at <$1/day. Not by my calculations!) as the PP has the Vit E as well as the flax & the 8:1 ratio.

RE: the adaptogens: Sheena had her first bout of cold-induced laminitis in 4 - 5 yrs this past winter. I'm looking at being more proactive this year. I'm willing to play around with things. Cost is a big issue as I don't want to purchase something $$$ just to find out it doesn't fit us. I read about the gal in North Caroline who bought the 1st 3 ingredients of APF in the powder form. Since we only have about 2 weeks of really cold weather per year (usually shows up in December) I'm thinking of starting around 12/1 & monitoring her around that time.

Is APF something that is also given with the NOS?


Re: New to list - will more than likely lurk

Mandy Woods
 

Hi Laura,
Welcome to the group! You must have a fescue/clover pasture like me! My favorite muzzle is the "Tough1". Catalogs have this and some tack shops. I like it because its soft and has a bigger basket. Get two - you'll always be covered then.

Was your mare tested for IR? That is Insulin and Glucose. IF she's not IR you may not have to be as tight in the Diet department that those that are especially with laminitis/founder. What is her breed?

I have to be honest.......I dont like the Diet you are feeding her! I dont know the esc/s in Nutrena Lite Balance but I'd bet its over 10% and doesnt compliment your hay. Foxden Quiessence is expensive Magnesium. Rice bran is Omega 6 - the bad fat and an inflammatory. Flax seed freshly ground for each meal is good - Omega 3 the good fat plus an anti-inflammatory.

The best Diet for a Cushings horse is a balanced diet. As you read the Files and emails, we recommend hay testing. Thats the major portion of their feed intake. So what are you feeding? You dont know until you test! Check out the Trainer/$40/603 at www.equi-analytical.com

IF you continue to allow grazing, I would muzzle her but supplement her with soaked/drained hay until you know the sugar/starch content. When you get her bloodwork back we can show you how to check the ratios and RISQI score. That is very important because there are different sensitivites to IR. That will also help you make a decision on grazing. Did you know the best time to graze is between 3am and 10am? The sugars are the lowest then.

How long was she on CTB? Pergolide is the drug of choice now. We recommend powder/capsules for their shelf life. Air degrades the powder and the liquids loose their potency very quickly.

Read the files and ask questions! Where in the Commonwealth are you?
And avoid founder at all cost.

Mandy near Bowling Green, VA
EC First Responder
OCT 2003

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