Date   

Re: Trying to taper Charlie off Bute

Linda <PapBallou@...>
 

I could sure use some advice from Dr.K or moderators on this....should I make the bute taper even more gradual than suggested?
Leeanne -

You can certainly find your own taper method. The key is to start tapering. Perhaps you can give .5 grams in the AM and 1 in the PM and see what happens for a few days, and then do some more. It would appear that he needs a little boost of something every 12 hours or so. Maybe even try .75gram AM and PM.

It's not written in stone, but as you know, needs to happen.

Have you tried Alcar? It's the last document in this folder:

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/Laminitis%2C%20Hoof%20Care%20%26%20Trimming/>

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Hoping for some Balance Babe guidance :-)

Laurie Ball
 

Hi All ~ I wrote about a week ago, saying that I'd entered Skip's hay analysis numbers into the spreadsheet (I'm the odd duck who was all overjoyed by how cool the spreadsheet is - pasted part of that msg to the end of this one), and that I was hoping for some guidance in figuring out what I need to be adding to his diet. Do I need to make a formal request somewhere? It would sure help to know what form to get these various minerals in (like the bag of mag ox for the magnesium), and how to figure how many grams etc are supplied by what amounts we supplement with. Is this info in the Files somewhere, and I've just overlooked it? I'm comfortable enough with tweaking things afterwards, as I learned how to balance my dogs' diets to NRC - but it's that startup information that I can't seem to find.

Since I last wrote, I've ordered the pergolide and APF ... everything's falling into place [knocking on wood here!]

Thank you!
Laurie in OR
w/Skip, 34yo mostly QH gelding
June 2010
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory3/files/Laurie%20B%20in%20OR/

<So I added the vit/min supplement to Skip's spreadsheet, and found that it made negligible differences. It makes sense to me to just look at the sheet with only the hay and beet pulp on it, and balance it up from there. I'm already feeding the 2000 IU Vit E, 3 T iodized salt, and 3-4 oz ground flax seed per day. I haven't added the mag ox yet, since the Smart Control IR gives 4400mg/day - but I have a bag of mag ox ready for when the IR runs out. My questions: Is it common for minerals to be that crazy unbalanced, especially the Manganese? What supplements do I look for to supply these various minerals? Will the iodized salt supply the right amounts of both sodium and iodine? >


Re: Dazzle's new test results

Lynn Swearingen <lynngs@...>
 

Please tell what the diet is that made such a difference.

Lynn Swearingen
Tomball, TX.
2007 ish


Trying to taper Charlie off Bute

 

two days ago, decided I would try to begin taper off Bute with the taper schedule suggested on this site. So he got 2g bute day one in the morning, then was going to wait 36 hrs to give next dose, but the next morning he was in so much pain that he was staggering when he'd try to just move a foot, and was rocked back onto his hinds like I hadn't seen since his worst times in the beginning.!!! I want him to heal! I got the J-herb and would like to get him started on it, but if he's in such terrible pain after a 36 hour gap in his Bute, I'm not sure he'll survive the taper. So I caved, and put him back on 1g am and pm, and he's getting comfortable again. I know bute inhibits healing, but what about quality of life? I could sure use some advice from Dr.K or moderators on this....should I make the bute taper even more gradual than suggested?

To review: We have his diet right on, balanced..and soak all his hay. He gets flax added, gtf chromium, msm. We don't force him to walk...it's his choice during the day. He wears softride boots w/pads during the day...and off at night.

He's being trimmed every 3 weeks, and three weeks ago was re-xrayed after trim, and vet was thrilled that his rotation had decreased quite significantly to 4Left, 7 right. He's been trimmed again since then, but not xrayed again.

Please...somebody advise me on this....

Leanne & Charlie
Camano Island, WA
June 2010


Re: Now, Kingi update was Dazzle's new test results

Joan and Dazzle
 

Hey Jenni,

Great to hear from you. How's Kingi doing?

For those of you who are new, or haven't followed along, Kingi is this beautiful, majestic horse in New Zealand. Jenni has just had obstacle after obstacle to get him the right care. New Zealand doesn't have the wealth of testing laboratories that we do, nor the protocols in place.

But Jenni has determination and tenacity. The last I heard, Kingi was doing well on his pergolide and was a different horse. Instead of worrying about if he could walk, Jenni was worrying about if he'd break his leg screaming around the paddock in his Soft Ride boots.

I do hope that he's doing well. You've done a great job of getting the job done when it seemed impossible!

Give us an update when you get the chance.

Joan and Dazzle

--- In EquineCushings@..., "jenalfriston" <jennimac@...> wrote:

That is sensational Joan! Very, very happy for you.


Re: STARCH!!

JMF <jane@...>
 

Sorry, I got the math wrong on the hay bales...I could buy 26 bales....at $3.00 a piece.

The test WAS the 601....
jane and Miss kitty
ne ms
10/09

Jane - It may be in old messages and if so, sorry. Can you confirm you used wet chemistry (ie Trainer 603) for these tests and not NIR?


Re: Chaste Tree Berry

muff747
 

I tried for nearly one year to get my gelding's ACTH within normal levels after it was high at each re-test, despite increasing the Pergolide dose each time. So I decided to try CTB alongside Pergolide and re-tested after feeding it for a month - and the levels were within normal range for the first time. Was it the CTB that made the difference? I will re-test again in October whilst still feeding CTB and if ACTH is still within normal, I'd like to think it was.
I have to be careful not to feed more than a tablespoon/day as someone reported their gelding becoming "studdy" when they fed it, and my gelding is studdy enough already!
I get mine already in powder form from a UK supplier.
Chris/Matty UK 07/09

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Gary & Kathy" <gksaucier@...> wrote:

Mary,
When we first got our diagnosis for EC, I tried the Chasteberry powder.
One source said 2 tsps/day & another source said it needed to be 2 ounces/day to be effective. That was 5 years ago so I can't remember details but seems like that was 1/2 a cup a day. A lot. We split it across the 2 meals and still couldn't get him to eat it. Very bitter. I tried various things to mask it and we had gotten up to a whole box of sugar free Jello each meal to mask it enough for him to eat. A sprinkling did nothing. At that price, it was cheaper to go with Pergolide, especially after I found the good sources recommended on this group (Thriving Pets & another pharmacy). I made that switch, he responded better, ate it without a problem, etc. No battles with the capsules of Pergolide.
Kathy S.
Texas
Jan 2005

Chaste Tree Berry
Posted by: "dogs2cats1horse" dogs2cats1horse@...
HI........... I've been reading about chaste tree berry for cushing horses. Tried it but he won't eat it( and this horse eats anything). I read that the chaste tree berry can be helpful...who has tried it and how did you feed it?
Thanks, Mary





Re: Wild oats in hay

Louise
 

Hi Susan,
Thanks for your response. I intended to have it tested but I did some more research today and found the below informantion. This was about issues in hay in California and I am in Maryland. Don't know if it would be the same here but it sure makes me worry enough to think maybe I should just pass on it now. I hate having to find a new source though when his hay has always been so good.

Plants that Cause Mechanical Injury

Numerous species of grasses produce barbed seed heads (commonly call foxtails) that penetrate and can become imbedded in skin and mucus membranes. Ulceration and infection, and abscess can result. Ulcerations in the oral cavity may cause pain with eating and weight loss. Wild barley, wild oats, and yellow bristle grass are examples of barbed grasses that may be found in pasture or first cutting hay

Louise in MD
Jan 2007

--- In EquineCushings@..., "palomino.1982" <sbaumgardner@...> wrote:


Hi Louise,

Unfortunately you won't know for sure unless it is tested. You can send a sample to Equi-Analytical ( Dairy One ) and test for ESC/Starch and if it comes in at 10% or lower- you are good to run the the full analysis.
Susan
EC Support/Primary Response
San Diego 1.07
I have purchased my timothy hay from the same farmer every year. I have had it tested every year and it always comes in at under 10% so it's great for my IR horse. This year he tells me that some wild oats got mixed in with


Re: Chaste Tree Berry

JamesH <jameshart500@...>
 

Another way is to use a liquid extract and then just syringe it into the mouth. Just make sure you buy one which declares its strength so you can work out a proper dose. Most do not!

James
Cambridge NZ
2007


Chaste Tree Berry
Posted by: "dogs2cats1horse" dogs2cats1horse@...
HI........... I've been reading about chaste tree berry for cushing horses. Tried it but he won't eat it( and this horse eats anything). I read that the chaste tree berry can be helpful...who has tried it and how did you feed it?
Thanks, Mary



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Dazzle's new test results

jenalfriston <jennimac@...>
 

That is sensational Joan! Very, very happy for you. Realise this new protocol would have be tailor made for Dazzle but are you able to share the details with us all?

Best wishes
Jenni, New Zealand
June 2008


With Dr. Kellon's guidance, we tried a new protocol several months ago. I couldn't believe the difference. I've subsequently run the tests 2 more times (because I couldn't believe it), each time, the numbers were excellent.
Joan and Dazzle
EC Primary Response Team
Anaheim, CA 2006


Re: Now: Treating previous hoof damage + founder (Was: Another one needing help)

 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "drkellon" <drkellon@...> wrote:
When a realigning trim is possible, as it is with Rafiq, anything substituted for that is destructive IMO.
Hello Shannon,

I believe Rafiq is being trimmed this week? As a reminder, below I've copied and pasted Linda A's comments after the last trim.

In the last year, Rafiq has grown a new hoof. It should be a fairly decent serviceable hoof. Instead he has little to no well connected hoof wall. There's no reason for that.

If you do the right thing now, in less than a year Rafiq will have a pretty decent hoof. If you continue the current path, he'll be right where he is now or worse. Your choice.

You're the only one who can get this done for Rafiq. It's time for you to buck up and take action to get the right thing done for Rafiq. No words, no reasons why not- just do it.

Barb in western CO
(with Sierra, Libby, Josie the donkey and Lola)
2005
EC List Support Team

www.ecirhorse.com



--- In EquineCushings@..., "Linda" <PapBallou@...> wrote:

I've put some markups of Rafiq's latest x-rays in two folder in the Rafiq files:

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory3/files/Rafiq%20and%20Majik/>

I really don't understand what the farrier is trying to do. He has lowered the heels some, and even put a bevel in the toe/wedge area, that is rather close to the toe target. Toe target is the yellow line, determined by the growth under the coronet band and parallel to the CB.

Then he set a shoe where the breakover of the shoe is way in front of the bevel, negating any good in relieving breakover that bevel could have done. The top orange line is where the farrier has made the bevel. The breakover of the shoe (bottom orange line) is putting the breakover Rafiq is dealing with, right back out on that extremely long toe. Breakover needs to be under the CB.

The shoe seems to be too big...there is extension of the shoe out past the heel...I would bet it's almost acting as a trailer. Then Rafiq has the double breakover - the physiologic breakover of the CB, and then the breakover of the long toe/shoe.

The trim, whether bare or shod needs to support the inner structures of the feet, allowing for a tight hug of the wall around the CB, and where deficient, making corrections to allow the hoof to grow in as *normal* a manner as is possible. That means derotating the CB, and putting breakover where is should be in relation to the CB.

It can certainly happen, but not until the mechanics of the foot make the hoof capsule (walls/frog/heels/sole/bars) and the coffin bone a single unit. Rafiq has bones, and he has hoof capsule...neither really complementing each other.

Pix definitely need to be posted. He has sunk, and until he gets the support he needs from his walls in correct alignment with the bones, it is doubtful that will resolve.

There appears to be some radiolucencies around the tip of the CB. Might be abscess tracts or collections forming...even if not, be prepared for abscesses as this foot has a lot of damage to clean up, and ill form to overcome.

If this is the way your team feels Rafiq needs to be rehabbed, then I would seriously seek out other advise/skill in your area. This is not going to be easy, and as long as he stays with the status quo, he will be the same in a year as he has been in the past year.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: You heard it here first...

5 Pine Ranch
 

Whoops - missed it in the back, they don't know yet!

Amberlee
www.fivepineranch.com
www.vpgraphix.com


Re: You heard it here first...

5 Pine Ranch
 

Joan - any thoughts on how this might apply to the early PPID cases?

Amberlee 11/04
www.fivepineranch.com
www.vpgraphix.com


Chaste Tree Berry

oakridge@gorge.net <oakridge@...>
 

I have been feeding Chaste Tree Berry since about 2001. I feed two ounces per day which is about
six tablespoons. I buy the whole berries from herbalcom.com and grind them with either a good
coffee grinder or a bullet blender (which works quite well). I grind them every morning, just
before I feed. I feed it all at one time first thing in the morning. I either take two quarts of
beet pulp or alfalfa pellets (alfalfa is your horse can tolerate it), and add twice as much water to
beet pulp or a little less to alfalfa pellets, in the evening. Let it sit over night. In the
morning I grind the chaste tree berries. Add it to the soaked pellets. Stir it well. You can add
any other minerals or medicine to it. My horse sees it as a treat. For years I fed it to her in
beet pulp and for some reason she stopped eatting it. I then switched to the alfalfa pellets and we
are back on track.


Chaste Tree Berry

Posted by: "dogs2cats1horse" dogs2cats1horse@...

HI........... I've been reading about chaste tree berry for cushing horses. Tried it but he won't
eat it( and this horse eats anything). I read that the chaste tree berry can be helpful...who has
tried it and how did you feed it?

Thanks, Mary



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: You heard it here first...

Joan and Dazzle
 

I just put a copy in our files under Blood testing, ACTH.

This would be handy to give to a vet who doesn't want to do this test.

Joan and Dazzle
EC Primary Response Team
Anaheim, CA 2006

--- In EquineCushings@..., "5 Pine Ranch" <fivepineranch@...> wrote:

Joan, this is a great study to be released - do we have a full copy available anywhere?


New file uploaded to EquineCushings

EquineCushings@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the EquineCushings
group.

File : /Blood Testing for IR & Cushings Disease/ACTH TESTING & INFORMATION/Lee The Use of ACTH.pdf
Uploaded by : horsies4luv <horsies4luv@...>
Description : This research article confirms the use of ACTH as a valid biomarker for PPID. This may be useful to give to a vet who doesn't want to do an ACTH test.

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/Blood%20Testing%20for%20IR%20%26%20Cushings%20Disease/ACTH%20TESTING%20%26%20INFORMATION/Lee%20The%20Use%20of%20ACTH.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles

Regards,

horsies4luv <horsies4luv@...>


Re: Chaste Tree Berry

Saucier Kathy
 

Mary,
When we first got our diagnosis for EC, I tried the Chasteberry powder.
One source said 2 tsps/day & another source said it needed to be 2 ounces/day to be effective. That was 5 years ago so I can't remember details but seems like that was 1/2 a cup a day. A lot. We split it across the 2 meals and still couldn't get him to eat it. Very bitter. I tried various things to mask it and we had gotten up to a whole box of sugar free Jello each meal to mask it enough for him to eat. A sprinkling did nothing. At that price, it was cheaper to go with Pergolide, especially after I found the good sources recommended on this group (Thriving Pets & another pharmacy). I made that switch, he responded better, ate it without a problem, etc. No battles with the capsules of Pergolide.
Kathy S.
Texas
Jan 2005

Chaste Tree Berry
Posted by: "dogs2cats1horse" dogs2cats1horse@...
HI........... I've been reading about chaste tree berry for cushing horses. Tried it but he won't eat it( and this horse eats anything). I read that the chaste tree berry can be helpful...who has tried it and how did you feed it?
Thanks, Mary


Re: You heard it here first...

5 Pine Ranch
 

Joan, this is a great study to be released - do we have a full copy available anywhere?

Amberlee 11/04
www.fivepineranch.com
www.vpgraphix.com



*********************************************
The use of adrenocorticotrophic hormone as a potential biomarker of pituitary pars intermedia dysfunction in horses

Author(s): Lee ZY (Lee, Zuo-Yen)1, Zylstra R (Zylstra, Robert)1, Haritou SJA (Haritou, Susan J. A.)1

Source: VETERINARY JOURNAL Volume: 185 Issue: 1 Special Issue: Sp. Iss. SI Pages: 58-61 Published: JUL 2010

Abstract: Elevated concentrations of plasma adrenocorticotrophic hormone (ACTH) in horses with pituitary disturbances are often associated with dysfunction of the pituitary's pars intermedia. The majority of such animals exhibit an increased susceptibility to laminitis, particularly during the autumn. The 24 h plasma ACTH profiles of horses with pituitary pars intermedia dysfunction (PPID), and those of matched controls, were determined in March, June, September and December. Differences in ACTH concentrations between the groups were significant (P < 0.0001), regardless of photoperiod, and persisted throughout the 24 h cycle in all seasons. ACTH concentrations were significantly higher in September and December than in March and June in both groups of animals. Cosinor analysis of the data indicated that the amplitude of changes was season-independent but higher (P = 0.0441) in PPID horses and that a significant interaction (P = 0.0096) existed between body condition (control versus PPID) and season of peak ACTH response. There were significant, but opposite, phase-shift differences in June and September. These results suggest that ACTH has a role as a biomarker of equine PPID providing that appropriate cut-off values are used at different times of the year. (C) 2010 Published by Elsevier Ltd.

****************************************


Re: Dazzle's new test results

Nancy C
 

Great news Joan! Congrats to you, Dazzle and Dr Kellon.

Nancy C in NH
February 2003
Moderator

Visit our new site:
http://www.ecirhorse.com/

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Joan and Dazzle" <horsies4luv@...> wrote:
Her crest is gone. Her udders are flat.

Another horse has recently gone on this protocol with similar results.

If you have the diet in place, but still have bad numbers, and would like more information, please contact Dr. Kellon privately at
drkellon <at> gmail.com


Re: Success Story #9 - Jen, Teddy Bear and Hero

Susie Faver <favers4@...>
 

Wonderful success story. Thank you for sharing.



Wishing you happiness, wellness and success always,

Susie

Ontario 12/09





To: EquineCushings@...
From: threecatfarm@...
Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2010 15:14:40 +0000
Subject: [EquineCushings] Success Story #9 - Jen, Teddy Bear and Hero






Dear ECIR Group Members

Jen, Teddy Bear and Hero of PA are our ninth success story, celebrated with photos, text and links to more data here:

<http://tinyurl.com/34sbudy>

It is the very first folder in the files section of the group home page and will also be on the ECIRhorse web site later today.

<www.ecirhorse.com>

ECIR Group is rapidly approaching and amazing 9000 members with three discussion groups and four filing cabinets filled with some 1700 Case Histories. Each fall always brings new folks on board. Many struggle to negotiate the learning curve and changes in horse keeping.

Jen's story is particularly timely.

Robin Siskel founded EC with the goal of keeping information firmly based in
science. Thanks to so many dedicated members, EC has become the largest field
trial database for PPID and IR in the world.

More of the history of the group may be read here

<http://tinyurl.com/23gssol>

We continue to compile and highlight as many member success stories as we can in order to celebrate the many achievements of this unique all-volunteer, member-driven group. Each story tells a tale of dedicated owners and their horses leading more healthful, productive lives. Each provides a point of departure for member discussion of PPID and IR as relates to diagnosis, nutrition, hoof form and exercise.

We continue to seek photos of horses who have been helped by the list to
compile a photographic essay to honor owners.

We wish to share your story.

Send your pictures and/or any questions about contributing a success story to

Nancy C in NH (EC Support Team and ECHoof Moderator)
threecatfarm@...
on behalf of Robin, Dr Kellon, and the ECIR Group support Team

PS - I checked all the above links and they should work for you!






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

138161 - 138180 of 280084