Date   

Re: Hello

Don <don@...>
 

The first rinse is to get rid of surface materials, dust and dirt. With
BP we are concerned about iron on the surface. Can't say if this would
be true for soy hulls in pelleted form or not.

Lorna has pointed out that the SHP go immediately to mush when wetted.
Unless one had a finer screen mesh probably a lot of the SH would be lost.

Whole hulls may well be an answer to the problem of ingredients. The
question would be where to go to look for them. The companies that
produce soy bean in food production ready form must sell off many tons
at a time and might not deal with the smaller demand we represent.

Probably would be super cheap though if you could find it.

Let us all know if you do.

I lost track of when you joined and where you are located. Wouldn't be
near me, would you? Ah how I'd like to find more local primary feed
sources. I've got the hay nailed down. Now for the supplementals.

If you are in the PNW my grower has two crops still under cover to sell
and nice quality with our low NSC+starch percent numbers too...and I can
provide any member of EC with the Equi Analytical lab results via
Email. His hay is stored at Odell just up from Hood River.

Don - Pacific Northwest U.S. Temperate Rainforest, 11/2007

On 1/24/2011 7:50 AM, morgansnme wrote:

[...]

Ah, good information. I'm not sure what 'rinsed' means in this case.
Soaking/draining and allowing the binder agents to leach out, like the
hay soak? I may try to find whole soy hulls instead.

Thanks Don.
[...]


Re: Soy hull pellets? / was Hello

Don <don@...>
 

Yes, soy HULL pellets. One of the links would take you to the statement by companies that indeed they use all kinds of binders for this product, including molasses.

Just like with BP pellets we can't count on any one particular company (even if we aren't forced at times to change brands) to remain consistent from one lot or run to another. When they run out of one thing for binders I presume they'll happily switch to another, especially if it's cheaper and the previous binder is in short supply or unavailable.

Part of that is understandable given the seasonal nature of production stocks. But they could at least tell us. Do they? I've never seen any listed on bag tags.

I certainly agree about what they might put in feeds, and also into our own human foods as you say. Gag!

I've become something of a kook on this issue, having wound up twice in hospital, once in intensive care, from reaction to corn derived hidden ingredients (mystery names such as xanthan gum - derived from mold grown on corn) and another time Pain so bad I couldn't breath unassisted, and they thought I was having a heart attack. I guess in a sense I was because my heart was certainly involved in the horrendous inflammation.

That aside, I've become increasingly bold, as has my wife on my behalf (out of fear of another episode like the last) about calling companies and
interrogating them and making clear the dangers I face with their product if they aren't candid with me. That was the premise I followed on the BP investigation I did when I discovered the use of corn as a binder for them, and the 17% sugars (by EquiAnalytical) in "molasses free," brand of BP pellets I feed.

While it's yet another pain in the ..... once again on behalf of our dear companions we probably should call our sources suppliers and do the same, interrogate. "What do you use for binders, do you ever change from one to the other, are those binders represented as a percentage of or whole number by weight or volume on your product bag tags?"

While they might get tired of us and accuse us of beating a dead horse they aren't having to face our sick or dead horses as we are.

If the hull pellets work for our horses then hooray for one less chore out of all that we already do for them.

Pushing for information from suppliers probably has worked well for us in the past and was part of getting better products out of them we now can recommend for ours and others IR horses.

I may move to the soy hull pellets myself one day. I know that if I start seeing things go badly with my horses it will be among the first things I'll withdraw and investigate.

I think just as you are doing we all would benefit by taking that same attitude of careful watchfulness.

Best wishes,

Don - Pacific Northwest U.S. Temperate Rainforest, 11/2007


On 1/24/2011 4:30 AM, Lorna wrote:


My research suggests strongly that if it's pelletized there is risk
in not rinsing.

Are you talking about soy hull pellets,Don?
[...]


Re: What the vet said

 

--- In EquineCushings@..., Mulemagic@... wrote:

Could "a few sticks to hit the vein" cause insulin to spike that much?
Depends on where the baseline is. I wouldn't expect a leap from 10 to 60+ in a non-hyperinsulenmic horse in the few seconds it takes to hit the vein but if the vet had been there for a while and the horse was getting increasingly stressed over time and started with a baseline of say... 50? Then it's anyone's guess.

What about any other co-existing signs of IR?

Kathleen (KFG in KCMO)
ECIR List Moderator
Missouri - Dec 2005


New to all this and needing help!

k.firkins@btinternet.com <k.firkins@...>
 

Hi Ya
My 24 year old gelding has just been diagnosed as EC and IR he also has arthritis and damage to suspensory ligament in off hind (from an accident a few years ago). He is currently having weekly injections of Cartrophen (10mls) for the arthritis and I gave him his first 1mg dose of peroglide three days ago without knowing about the side affects. Within 30 mins his eyes were heavy and dopey, like he was asleep and dioreah follwed the next day. I came home and found this website and learned of the peroglide veil! I havent given him any more as iv been trying to track down Canadian Ginseng, its impossible to get in the UK so i have ordered it on-line from Canada, I thought I would wait for it to come before giving him the peroglide again and start him on it gradually over the 10 days, is this the right thing to do? Also how much ginseng should I give him and does this have to be introduced slowly too? I would also like to put him on the emergency diet but he gets dioreah with sugar beet any other suggestions and how long should he be on the emergency diet? and should the suggested minerals, herbs etc in the diet be introduced slowly?

Sorry for waffling on and I will probably have loads more questions soon. My vet is on holiday and I have found the EC IR website invaluable.

Thankyou so much
Kate


Re: 18 year old Arabian Gelding

millionairess1989
 

Hello Barbara,
Something else to think about would be getting his heart checked. My now 22 year old Arabian mare did that for the first of several times 4 years ago. My vet came right out and diagnosed her with a 3rd degree av cardiac block. Instead of a lub dub sound, it was more like lub lub lub dub. She was literally passing out from lack of blood flow. A permanent pacemaker was implanted 4 years ago and she has been doing well with it, after much trial and error. It is now time for a replacement, right after she was diagnosed with Cushings.
Jennifer
1/11
Millionairess

--- In EquineCushings@..., "vlahac" <vlahac@...> wrote:

Hello,

Several days ago, my Arabian gelding fainted, hit the ground and then bounced up. Just to be sure that everything was okay, I called the vet. I wanted blood work to be taken as I know Arabian's have a predisposition to IR and Cushings. Blood work came back normal with one exception that his glucose was within the highe normal range. I am testing for insulin/glucose as well as getting an ACTH test done within the next several days. Bruq, has a cresty neck and his eye sockets are filled in. He is showing absolutely no signs of Cushing's. He is not drinking more, not depressed, is shedding out well and has a nice shinny coat. The strange thing though, this past week he has a sweat mark, the size of a silver dollar just below his right wither. When I showed the vet the sweat mark, he told me it was muscle damage and that I should keep an eye on it. However, Bruq has never fallen with the exception of the other day, and that was his other side.

Currently, he is on LMF Super Supplement as he is not being worked while my daughter is attending school in the UK. However, I am removing him from Super Supplement and putting him on LMF Stage 1 low carb feed, just to be sure. Bruq is being fed local hay, with orchard grass hay pellets being fed to him in 1 cup intervals every 3 hours during the evening with my automatic grain dispenser.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what the sweat spot may be, and can it be an indicator of IR or Cushings?

Thank you,
Barbara


Re: What the vet said

Katherine
 

Do you know what the horse ate before the blood draw? Insulin is amoving target so when it was drawn would factor in. Are there any othersigns like a cresty neck, obesity, etc.?<<<
This is what my friend says: "He was fed at 6 am and continued to have a Bermuda/orchard mixture up until blood draw, 11:15 am. NO grain. NO exercise. Don’t know if this is worth mentioning, but it took the vet a few “sticks” to hit the vein. Grrrr."

Could "a few sticks to hit the vein" cause insulin to spike that much?



Katie Reid
Ramona, CA
8/08





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Trimming for Founder

mswanm
 

Ooops, my mistake on the timing issue. Sorry, wading through 600 e-
mails. A little defensive about the barefoot trim--I have seen the
wonders on my navicular QH, pancake TB, and foundered pony. Sorry to
be quick on the draw!
Megan Swanson
Buffalo,
NYT
October 2010
On Jan 24, 2011, at 1:44 PM, Megan Swanson wrote:


On Jan 18, 2011, at 5:35 PM, the_unicrn wrote:

, we timed the horse swapping weight bearing every 2 seconds in
boots with pads touching the sole. With out the pads it was 3
seconds swapping feet. By trimming the quarters region shorter than
the heels the foot swapping changed immediately to 30 seconds.
I know this has been moved off here--shame because I believe this does
relate very specifically to founder trim advice given to IR/PPID horse
owners. There is much I would like to question about your conclusions
Darren. But I'll stick with one, what would indicate to you a horses
comfort level is increased when they choose to be weight bearing on it
for a shorter period of time? Snapping the hoof up quicker usually
indicates pain, not comfort.

Megan Swanson
Buffalo, NY
October 2010

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: update on princess with AAKG/ question on weepy eyes

edain_rides <edain@...>
 

I had thought of UVeitis, but hadn't mentioned it to the veterinarian because she hadn't brought it up. I should know better than to assume that because she didn't mention Uveitis does not mean that it isn't so.

And now you mention it, direct sunlight does seem to bother her.

Stupid me! I should send myself to my room, except I need to find out more about UVeitis and how it is treated.

Barbara
Southwest PA
Sept 2007

--- In EquineCushings@..., GeneCec <genecec@...> wrote:

Actually, might she have uveitis?


Re: Trimming for Founder

mswanm
 

On Jan 18, 2011, at 5:35 PM, the_unicrn wrote:

, we timed the horse swapping weight bearing every 2 seconds in
boots with pads touching the sole. With out the pads it was 3
seconds swapping feet. By trimming the quarters region shorter than
the heels the foot swapping changed immediately to 30 seconds.
I know this has been moved off here--shame because I believe this does
relate very specifically to founder trim advice given to IR/PPID horse
owners. There is much I would like to question about your conclusions
Darren. But I'll stick with one, what would indicate to you a horses
comfort level is increased when they choose to be weight bearing on it
for a shorter period of time? Snapping the hoof up quicker usually
indicates pain, not comfort.

Megan Swanson
Buffalo, NY
October 2010


Re: Hello

morgansnme
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "merlin5clougher" <clougher@...> wrote:

Let me know if you need some ideas on sub-zero soaking - been there, done that.

cheers,
Jaini (BVSc) Merlin, Maggie, Gypsy
BC09
EC Support
Hi Jaini...Yes please! Ideas are welcome. So I can pick up the shreded BP today and r/s/r. Thx


Re: organic minerals for sale

roger_and_pam_ward <roger_and_pam_ward@...>
 

Dr. Kellon

I am surprised my the incorrect information in your post. At the time of this message the price of poly zn and cu on the Uckele web site is $8.95 per 1 pound container.

see http://www.uckeleequine.com/buy/polycopper1/

The cost per pound of mineral from Uckele is listed below.
Poly Zn 22% @ $8.95 => $44.68 per pound of zinc
Poly Cu 12.5% @ $8.95 => $71.60 per pound of copper

The cost per pound of mineral from Zinpro that is am selling is below.
Zinpro 180 18% @ $5.40 => $30 per pound of zinc
CuPlex 100 10% @ $5.40 => $54 per pound of copper

The materials that I am offering are at least a 25% savings over what you could purchase materials from Uckele for.

I don't understand why you wrote what you did.

8/2009

Roger Ward
P3 Hoof Trimming
Acampo, CA
209-329-4858

--- In EquineCushings@..., "drkellon" <drkellon@...> wrote:



--- In EquineCushings@..., "roger_and_pam_ward" <roger_and_pam_ward@> wrote:

...

I'm not sure what supplier you are referring to, but Uckele Poly Zn and Cu are less than $5/lb and provide a higher concentration of the minerals.

...

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: update on princess with AAKG/ question on weepy eyes

GeneCec <genecec@...>
 

It's Cec, but uveitis is inflammation of the interior structure of the eye.
It can be relatively benign for years or can cause serious damage in a short
period of time. My gelding wears a flymask all year round except when it's
pouring rain or very overcast. Almost anything can aggravate it - wind and
snow glare are the worst IMO. When he has a flare-up, his whole area will
puff out as if he'd banged his eye, and the white of his eye will be quite
red. It's very sore then. I don't like using steroids, but the best thing
with a flare-up is an eye ointment with a steroid. (I'm completely blanking
on what the H is in BNPH ointment.something cortisol, hydrocortisol? I
*know* this isn't good for IR/Cushings animals but I use it once and it does
the trick.)



I'll look up the pillules I use (from a Quebec company called Boiron) and
see what they put in them.



Duke is just getting hay and beetpulp, plus ground flax, but I board him out
and can't soak his hay.



If her eyes are weeping, maybe try putting a flymask on her and see if it
helps? Snow glare (I don't know where you are) is really bad for irritated
eyes.



Cec







Subject: RE: [EquineCushings] Re: update on princess with AAKG/ question on
weepy eyes





Hi Gene,
I don't want to sound stupid but what is uveitis. also is your gelding IR or
on a IR diet. I have to be careful on what I use, princess is IR.
thanks
Sue & princess
oh 6/10





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Re: Hello

merlin5clougher <clougher@...>
 

Hi, Gay:

Oops! Meant to include a link to "Pergolide 101" in my post about the pergolide.


Taken from "Pergolide 101"


Whether increasing or decreasing dosage or just starting pergolide for the first time, to reduce the chances of your horse experiencing side effects it is recommended to taper to the targeted dosage. The EC&IR Group recommends a tapering rate of .25 mg over for three days. Ordering a supply of 18 0.25 mg capsules makes tapering easier.

If aiming for an increase of 1 mg dose:
Day 1 to 3: increase by one 0.25 mg capsule -total of 3
Day 4 to 6: increase by two 0.25 mg capsules -total of 6
Day 7 to 9: increase by three 0.25 mg -total of 9
Day 10 -start full 1 mg


And here is the link to the full document:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/Drugs%2C%20Pergolide%2C%20Cushings%20Disease%20Treatments/
"
"Pergolide 101 is near the bottom of the list.

Cheers,

Jaini and crew
BC09
EC Support


Re: Hello

merlin5clougher <clougher@...>
 

One problem...it has molasses in it. Can I feed that? They don't have plain shreded BP.

Hi, Gay:

Nope! No molasses, ever. What all of us here do is: rinse the beet pulp to get rid of surface junk, then soak; then rinse, rinse, rinse til the water comes clear. I rinse and soak in hot water, as I find that gets rid of most of the color more quickly. Lots of members have used different methods of r/s/r the beet pulp, including washing machines! I use a big colander, but I am only r/s/r for 3.

Let me know if you need some ideas on sub-zero soaking - been there, done that.

cheers,
Jaini (BVSc) Merlin, Maggie, Gypsy
BC09
EC Support


Re: update on princess with AAKG/ question on weepy eyes

sue wolf <wolffarm4@...>
 

Hi Gene,
I don't want to sound stupid but what is uveitis. also is your gelding IR or on a IR diet. I have to be careful on what I use, princess is IR.
thanks
Sue & princess
oh 6/10

--- On Mon, 1/24/11, GeneCec <genecec@...> wrote:




 






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Hello/Gay

merlin5clougher <clougher@...>
 


Pergolide Paste
0.1% (1mg/ml)
RX# 646911 Date 1-4-11
Doctor
Patient
Give 0.3ml orally once a day
LOT:PG281 Exp 4-27-11 20ml

Aha!!! This means that .3 ml is .3 mg. Okay for a starting dose, way too low to do any good long term. The ideal will be to increase by .2 or even .3 mls every 4 days, until you get to 1 mg, then see how the response is (demeanor, heat in feet, and, ideally, an ACTH draw). You may have to go higher - there are some horses on this list on as high as 8 mg daily. My two are on 3 mg daily.

I know the Cushing's isn't a firm diagnosis at this stage, but if it were my horse, I would sure as heck be using (and increasing) the pergolide until I know Frisco doesn't need it.

FWIW, my two were also lying down and groaning. It is not a death sentence! They are both full of beans now, and happy as can be.

Good for you getting on board and soaking hay etc. It does get easier.

AND (this is important) don't ever beat yourself up because you were in the hospital and didn't realize your horse had a problem. What are you, Superwoman? I didn't know what was causing my horses' problems, and I am a vet, for goodness sake! The important thing is that you are here now, where you can get cutting edge, proven advice and info. Steep learning curve, I know, but you'll be surprised how quickly you catch on, and Frisco and Haiku will be healthier than they have ever been.


HTH

Jaini (BVSc), Merlin, Maggie, Gypsy
BC 09
EC Support


Pergolide in the UK (or on line)?

Jill Allsopp
 

Each time I get the pergolide for Sabria it has gone up hugely in price - from £60 when she was first diagnosed 18 months ago to £110+ a couple of months ago (100 x 1mg tablets)
Does anyone know a source in the UK or on line that is substantially cheaper - I would have to pay the vets £12 for a prescription and if I have to pay postage on top, it needs to be less than £80 for the pack of 100. Local chemists have quoted me around £89. Sabria is 32 and a rescue on the death of her owner so costs are hugely significant when I am relying on donated funding.


Re: Hello

morgansnme
 

You're a peach!! Awesome.
One more question. I can't find soy hulls or soy hull pelets but they have shreded beet pulp. One problem...it has molasses in it. Can I feed that? They don't have plain shreded BP.

--- In EquineCushings@..., "dixie6264" <dixie6264@...> wrote:

sounds good. Just let me know. No worries about money. It is truly more blessed to give then receive. And I have received a lot from this group - so paying it forward.
Pam & Butters
King George, Va
12/10


Re: Hello

Pamela Bramell
 

sounds good. Just let me know. No worries about money. It is truly more blessed to give then receive. And I have received a lot from this group - so paying it forward.
Pam & Butters
King George, Va
12/10

--- In EquineCushings@..., "morgansnme" <morgansnme@...> wrote:


How generous of you Pam. I will need to measure him as I've never u


Re: update on princess with AAKG/ question on weepy eyes

GeneCec <genecec@...>
 

I have had my gelding on Euphrasia offic. Pillules for a couple of years
now.it helps control the excessive tearing/weeping he gets from uveitis.
Actually, might she have uveitis?

My gelding had mild weepiness and puffy eyes for years before he had a
uveitis flare-up; I always thought it was just allergies, but I think it
was low-level uveitis.



I have noticed that since he's on Pergolide, the weeping doesn't seem to be
as bad.



Cec

Nova Scotia

June 2010





My mare has had weepy eyes for over 1.5 years now, since moving her to a new
barn. Her diet is controlled, and she has now been on pergolide for 5
months. She still has discharge, red irritated eyes. The vet has no idea,
but suggested mold in the barn. Antibiotic ointment did nothing. In other
horses on this list, people have reported the eye discharge went away with
diet control and/or pergolide. All this to say that you might still see a
problem even as the IR improves.

Barbara
Southwest PA
Sept 2007



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