Date   

Re: Glycocide statement in Immunall- SAFE ?? New bloodwork

DawnC
 

I purchased Immunall a month ago & started my mare on it >
Thank you for your quick responses. I also just heard from my vet today who said Roma's Leptin, which was drawn on the same day 4/17/12, was above the normal limit at 7.31. I do not know much about Leptin but had it done because of the suggestions here. What does it show? Her ACTH was normal and she previously had a lymes test which was negative. She WAS on the Immunall at the time of the 4/17/12 blood draw but is not now.

I know I have to tighten her diet because she is turned out now in a semi-rocky field with hay (it has been tested) but still some grass and trees. She is being exercised 30+ minutes 6 days a week and will increase now that the weather is better. I tried a muzzle it worked for all of 3 hours until she broke it by pulling out all the stitching holding the muzzle. The breakaway part was still intact. My next plan is to try & make a pasture track. I thought we were doing better but will keep trying. Here is my history link but honestly have not posted much. http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Dawn%20%26%20Roma/

Many, many thanks,

Dawn & Roma
Middletown, DE
August 2011


Balti Hay Analysis

Lee A. Baldwin
 

I've uploaded my hay analysis from EquiAnalytical http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Balti%20Case%20History/ and some recent information on my 26 year old Icelandic Gelding who foundered in March. He is still having trouble. If someone could help me with hay balancing I would really appreciate it. He has had xrays and bloodwork but I don't have copies to upload yet. He has been trimmed and is in SoftRide Boots. He has 5-7% rotation in both front feet--the right is worse than the left. Thank you to whoever can help.

Lee in San Diego member since 2003


Re: Glycocide statement in Immunall- SAFE ?? New bloodwork

shotgunranch <shotgun.ranch@...>
 

Dawn
I totally agree with everything Lavinia & Patti have told you. Breeding a mare with severe/uncontrolled IR is definite recipe for disaster for the mare & foal, assuming she can even conceive.
That being said I took a look at the Immunall

Both the Uncaria Tomentosa (Cat's Claw) & the Viola Tricolor are diuretics...red flag for a horse with severe IR IMO.

Juglans regia is English walnut, a relative to black walnut-danger alert!
"Other species including English walnut, pecan,
shellbark/shagbark/bitternut hickory, produce such small quantities of
juglone that toxic reactions in other plants are rarely observed.
Black walnut is the most toxic but these other plants still pose some
direct risk to horses as well."
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=552361
I wouldn't risk it.

Eleutherococcus senticosus
I tend to stay away from most ginsengs because of the cardiovascular effect....much prefer Canadian or American (Panax quinquefolius). check out Precautions & Possible interactions below
http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/siberian-ginseng-000250.htm

I don't see anything blatantly contraindicated for the IR horse but I see a lot of red flags.
Personally, I would not give it to my IR horse.
Claire in AZ
Aug 2000

--- In EquineCushings@..., "plwoodbury" <DesertHorses@...> wrote:

Hi Dawn ~

I'm not a herbalist so can't tell specifically on the Immunall, but a healthy mare on a well balanced diet shouldn't need this.

And I must agree with Lavinia - it's important to get the IR controlled BEFORE breeding your mare.


Trouble finding your way around the ECIR Group list?

Nancy C
 

Trouble finding your way around the ECIR Group list?

There's so much info here, the links below can help you negotiate the learning curve and find background to questions and issues:

DDT+E - Diagnosis, Diet, Trim plus Exercise - What is it?

<http://www.ecirhorse.com/index.php/ddt-overview>

Once at the above page, click on the black boxes for even more detail.

Table of Contents - searchable document for all the files in three ECIR Group lists

<http://tinyurl.com/6lsvppq>

Archived Messages - How to Search this treasure trove of information and history

<http://tinyurl.com/767cxyy>

Current Case History Filing Cabinet - Where to post your Case History

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/>

Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Teams of the Equine Cushings Lists


Re: ? Psyllium Dosage

Nancy C
 

Hi Kim

From this message

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/57713>

4 to 8 oz (recommendations vary) per day, divided between feedings,
or one week out of each month. If using loose powder, lower end of
the dosage scale should work. If using pellets, which do not always
dissolve well, go with the higher dose.

Eleanor<<

Good for you for working on the histories and getting a lot of ducks in a row. It gets easier. Balancing will help the iron.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...


? Psyllium Dosage

c_searcher@...
 

Hi All,
New to group. In process of getting histories together on laminitic,obese 17 yr old paint mare and 17 yr old laminitic, obese pony. On emergency diet. New ferrier. Labs drawn-ikes- both came back severe IR. Just finished making a dry lot. Previously wore grazing muzzles. Need advice on psyllium dosage. Mare 1190 lbs. Pony is 600lbs. Trying to figure out how to do histories(not an I.T. person). Will take a couple of days to do. Got new hay low s/s; sugar ESC is 6.92 and 1.21. Rinsing and soaking anyway. Iron high at 209 ppm. Using soaked OTBC for carrier.

Thanks,
Kim H


Re: Is feed-through fly control safe for IR horses?

 

Thank you Rose. I'll look them up!

Jennifer & Shahtahr
Clovis, CA
2012


I use Arbico Organics Fly Eliminators with good success. They are fly predators that you spread around your property in the evening and they eat fly larvae.

Rose
Oregon 2012


Re: Glycocide statement in Immunall- SAFE ?? New bloodwork

 

Hi Dawn ~

I'm not a herbalist so can't tell specifically on the Immunall, but a healthy mare on a well balanced diet shouldn't need this.

And I must agree with Lavinia - it's important to get the IR controlled BEFORE breeding your mare. On another group I'm on, a gal was asking how early she could pull the foal because the mare foundered while pregnant and she wants to put her down. I would not want to risk this.

A case history link would be very helpful. It sounds like your mare is overweight - this can also be a factor in making it difficult to conceive. So putting a workable plan in place to control her IR and weight before breeding would be a better goal - she's only eleven and I'm sure keeping her healthy for many more years is more important than a single foal next spring. Twice up a hill on a five acre pasture is not near the five to ten miles a day she would need to consider "free" exercise adequate.

I noticed in another post you mentioned Thorvin Kelp with 1,000ppm iodine - unless you're going to weigh it out with a gram scale (it's a mg per gram), it would be much safer to stick with something like Source.

For anyone wanting to breed their mare, I'd also suggest Dr. Kellon's Management for Pregnancy and Growth course http://www.drkellon.com/coursedescriptions/mgmtforpreggrowth.html
From the description "Survival is not the goal though – optimum health and development is."

Patti K
Vail AZ
EC Support Team 2001

--- In EquineCushings@..., "DawnC" <rgoodearth@...> wrote:

I purchased Immunall a month ago & started my mare on it as she has had some problems with fertility (first thyroid & now IR) and also uterine fluid when examined.


Re: Is feed-through fly control safe for IR horses?

Rose
 


I have fed Simplifly in the past to my horses to keep the fly population down and it works great.
I use Arbico Organics Fly Eliminators with good success. They are fly predators that you spread around your property in the evening and they eat fly larvae.

Rose
Oregon 2012


DISREGARD: Repost: Is feed-through fly control safe for IR horses?

 

Did a search through the archives and found my answer.

Jennifer & Shahtahr
Clovis, CA
2012


Re: Glycocide statement in Immunall- SAFE ?? New bloodwork

Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

I purchased Immunall a month ago & started my mare on it as she has had some problems with fertility (first thyroid & now IR) and also uterine fluid when examined. The regime for breeding mares is 10 ml 3 wks before insemination. This was followed but did not breed on this cycle. I was re-reading some of the papers that came with the product and found this statement "Extra energy will be produced by glycocodes. These stimulate the carbohydrate metabolism in the liver forming ATP and GTP. Glucose levels will rise and be absorbed, influenced by ACTH and a higher level of insulin. More energy, therefore, will be available for physical activity, fighting infection, cell regeneration." Also, "It regulates blood pressure and glucose levels without leading to addiction or exhaustion.
There is a few pages of info I can scan and post if interested. None which is on their website. I did phone the US representative before purchase and she said it was safe for IR horses. http://www.equineimmune.com/about.html IS THIS SAFE ??
Last bloodwork after IR Calculator still Severe IR, high laminitis risk
Glucose: 109 mg/dl
Insulin: 83.64 ulU/ml
G:I ratio: 1.30
RISQI: 0.11
MIRG: 5.83
Roma is currently not taking the Immunall but is scheduled to be bred next cycle. Any help or thoughts would be appreciated.
Hi Dawn,
When were these bloods done? Were these before/after/during the Imunall? Do you have a case history posted for Roma? If so, would you please give us the link to it. If not, would you please fill one out here:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/

Her IR is not currently controlled, as you are aware. Pregnancy induces a degree of IR so when added to her current status this could be a dangeropus situation for both Roma and her perspective foal.
I'm not a vet but if the Imunall DOES raise glucose/insulin levels it is the last thing Roma needs right now. Need to get her diet super tight ASAP. If this has already been addressed, then need to figure out what else is driving those numbers and control it before treying to breed her.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too ansd Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Repost: Is feed-through fly control safe for IR horses?

 

Just in case it was missed....does anybody use feed through fly control with their IR horses? The flies are starting to get bad already so need to start something. Might try predators if the feed through isn't good for IR.

Thanks,
Jennifer & Shahtahr
Clovis, CA
2012

--- In EquineCushings@..., "luvmyapbt" <jlfleet@...> wrote:

Hi all,

I have fed Simplifly in the past to my horses to keep the fly population down and it works great. The active ingredient is Diflubenzuron (Dimilin®). I'm not sure what the inactive ingredients are.

Is it safe to feed it to IR horses? Not sure I should use it now that I know Shahtahr is IR.

Thanks,
Jennifer & Shahtahr
Clovis, CA
2012


Re: REPOST: Thyroid Swellings?

d1fairy
 

thanks I keep forgetting about that feature! thanks for the reminder
Monty nov 2011

--- In EquineCushings@..., "tomtriv" <ThePitchforkPrincess@...> wrote:


Hi Monty
After 10 years of operation, chances are the information members seek is in our files or groups - somewhere. To quickly find if we have the information you seek try the ECIR Files Table of Contents(TOC): http://tinyurl.com/6lsvppq

Without having to wait for replies, or going thru the 80+ folders one by one, members can quickly find the information they are looking for (and info they didn't know they were looking for!) by searching the TOC. The TOC also has the added bonus of "Also See" sections providing links to added information not just in the files but stuff that is squirreled away in other sections like photos, links and even outside websites. :-)

I did a quick search for "thyroid" and found this link to the photos you seek:
http://tinyurl.com/y9a726e

- LeeAnne 03/04
Newmarket, Ont
ECIR Archivist

Are you in the Pergolide Database? http://tinyurl.com/yfahmda
ECIR Files Table of Contents: http://tinyurl.com/6lsvppq

http://TakenForGraniteArt.webs.com


Glycocide statement in Immunall- SAFE ?? New bloodwork

DawnC
 

I purchased Immunall a month ago & started my mare on it as she has had some problems with fertility (first thyroid & now IR) and also uterine fluid when examined. The regime for breeding mares is 10 ml 3 wks before insemination. This was followed but did not breed on this cycle. I was re-reading some of the papers that came with the product and found this statement "Extra energy will be produced by glycocodes. These stimulate the carbohydrate metabolism in the liver forming ATP and GTP. Glucose levels will rise and be absorbed, influenced by ACTH and a higher level of insulin. More energy, therefore, will be available for physical activity, fighting infection, cell regeneration." Also, "It regulates blood pressure and glucose levels without leading to addiction or exhaustion.
There is a few pages of info I can scan and post if interested. None which is on their website. I did phone the US representative before purchase and she said it was safe for IR horses. http://www.equineimmune.com/about.html IS THIS SAFE ??

Last bloodwork after IR Calculator still Severe IR, high laminitis risk

Glucose: 109 mg/dl

Insulin: 83.64 ulU/ml

G:I ratio: 1.30

RISQI: 0.11

MIRG: 5.83

Roma is currently not taking the Immunall but is scheduled to be bred next cycle. Any help or thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you!
Dawn & Roma
Middletown, DE
August 2011


MESSAGE POSTING ETIQUETTE - KEEPING ECIR USER FRIENDLY

tomtriv <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>
 

******************************
This is a high volume list that can be difficult to follow. To help make this easier for everyone, please follow the guidelines below:

1) Sign your posts with your first name, location, the date you joined. When asking for advice, provide a link to your case history or photos. All this information is important. It provides volunteers with the clues needed to get you quality responses, local support, vendors, vets, hoof care, etc. in a timely fashion.

2) Limit your signature to 3 or 4 lines.

3) Delete all but the part of the message you're replying to before posting. Keep who is saying what clear by leaving the chevrons (>) in front of the text you are answering then type your response in a new paragraph below.

4) When threads take off in new directions indicate the topic change in the subject line. For example: NOW: New Subject (was Old Subject).

5) Don't re-post messages if they don't immediately appear on the group or go unanswered. Allow roughly 48 hours before re-posting with the words "2nd Post" in the subject line and simply provide the original message's number. Be patient, it is not personal or a reflection on you in any way. With so many posts some do get missed.

6) Feel free to take off-topic, horse-related discussions to our sister yahoo groups. ECHorsekeeping provides a place for discussion related to non- metabolic horses. Diagnosis, Diet, Trim and Exercise is the focus to allow members a place to discuss nutrition for non- PPID/IR horses. General horse keeping practices, lameness and other equine health issues that are not related to a PPID/IR horse, alternative therapies and equine related philosophical debates are also acceptable on ECHorsekeeping.

THE ECIR GROUPS:

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http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHorsekeeping/

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http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHoof/

For a complete list of our sister groups see the ECIR Files Table of Contents:
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***WARNING***
Solicitation is against list policy. If contacted privately by someone selling a product or service, be suspicious. These mails frequently target new members or those in a crisis. Often the product or service will not hold up to close examination. It could be harmless but also could be unsafe. Any suggested supplement, treatment, hoof care approach, etc, should be posted on the list so that everyone can benefit from list feedback. If you receive an e-mail selling something, either post to the group to ask about it, or forward the mail to

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Owners, Moderators & Primary Response Teams of the Equine Cushings Lists


new cushings dx

wickzcats <wickzcats@...>
 

I have a 22 yr old Morgan gelding who has been IR for about 10 yrs and I have managed very well with diet and supplements. This spring he shed out really well, and then his coat started to grow back in which prompted me to test him for Cushings.

His cortisol is 7.5(1-4.6) and his ACTH is 41(9-35) thank God his feet are in great shape (knock on wood) so my plan is to start Prascend and to help minimize side effects with APF. Does anyone care to comment or refer me to any files that I may find helpful.
thanks
Anita


Re: NUTRENA SPECIAL CARE

Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

I just had a second set of exrays on my horse and he is holding. That is very good news. I am waiting for the results of my hay analysis.
Hi Judy(?),
Always good news when there is no deterioration. Now on to improving. Just let us know when the hay analysis is in and one of the hay gurus can help you from there.
Would you please sign your posts with your name(first is fine), general geographic location and year of joining. With over 10,000 members it can get a bit confusing as to who is who. Also, would you delete most of the post you are replying to, leaving only a line or two if needed for clarity. This makes it easier for everyone to follow the new material without getting lost in the repeated text. Thanks for your help with this.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Holistic treatment for Cushings

Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

My 15 year old pony is having a strange behavioral reaction to Pergolide.  Tried reducing the dose and raising it slowly, not having
much success.  Has anyone successfully controlled Cushings with an herbal remedy?

Hi Kim,
Do you have a case history posted for your pony? If so, would you please give us the link. This helps us to answer your questions much more accurately.
Pergolide is the gold standard for treatment of PPID (Cushings). There are no herbal remedies that are effective in controlling the excess output of ACTH. As Linda mentioned, Chastetree berry is used to help with some of the overt symptoms, esp non-shedding, but does not actually control the disease so even tho it looks like the animal is better, the disease is still running along unchecked.
Would you please add your year of joining to future posts. This helps us to know where you are in your "Cushing's Journey". Thanks.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


ACTH, Insulin & glucose testing-serum vs plasma

millionairess1989
 

Is there any advantage to one compared to the other? Mill's first two samples were serum and the results seemed okay. The latest test was plasma and are the highest yet. My vet tech friend comes out to draw the blood and we spin it down in my kitchen about 2 minutes later. It doesn't get much fresher than that. All three samples were shipped the same way, express mail on ice.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory3/files/Millionairess/

Jennifer & Mill in TN
Jan 2011


Re: NUTRENA SPECIAL CARE

ymemags
 

Thank you.
I just had a second set of exrays on my horse and he is holding. That is very good news. I am waiting for the results of my hay analysis.

"Take Care Of Your Goodness"


________________________________
From: drkellon <drkellon@...>
To: EquineCushings@...
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 9:44 AM
Subject: [EquineCushings] Re: NUTRENA SPECIAL CARE


 
--- In EquineCushings@..., Judy <ymemags@...> wrote:

Dr. Kellon,
       I am new to the group so if I ask questions that have been answered before please forgive me. What do you recommend as a "safe" level of starch/sugar in the feed and /or hay of an IR horse. My vet recommends less than 10% but you are saying even 8% is too much.
I'm comfortable with less than 10% in hay for most horses, but most of that is sugars, not starch. Hay sugar in most types of hay is at least 50% sucrose. Sucrose is half glucose, half fructose. Plain fructose and glucose make up the rest.

Starch on the other hand is digested completely to glucose. It has the potential to produce almost twice as high a glucose spike as hay sugar.

Not all starch is created equal though. Oat starch is highly digestible in horses while the starch in dried peas is high in "resistant starch" that is not digestible (but ferments in the hind gut). Processing also changes the digestibility of various starches.
Pelleting and even size of the pellets can make a difference too.

Because of all these factors, it's difficult to make an across the board statement about feeds. The 8% I referred to applies only to whatever feed was tested in that report.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001




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