Re: Can a horse OD on salt?

tomtriv <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>

Well done Cynthia! I did similar (not as great as yours) when Dawn was eating extreme amounts of salt:
Date - Salt block size - Water intake (what was left in 5 Gal buckets)
Oct 16, 2009 - 1 inch
Oct 17 - 2 kg
Oct 20 ......- 1 bucket
Oct 30 ......- 1.5 buckets
Oct 31 2 kg - 1.5 buckets
Nov 16 20 kg
Dec 18ish.... - .5 to .25 bucket
Mar 25, 2010 - 7.3 pounds left - .75 bucket
Mar 26 - 7.1 pounds left - .75 bucket
Mar 30 - 6.5 pounds left
Apr 1...........- .25 bucket
Apr 2(?) - 20 kg
Aug 21-ish - 20 kg

Oct 5 2010......- .75 red bucket
Nov 7 removed Red bucket
Nov 8 2010 Removed salt block â€" Dr. M orders
Nov 8, 2010 .25 left in blue
Nov 9, 2010 .5 left

So at least I know that Dawn went thru 64kg (143 pounds!) of salt in about one year.

Now she is getting 3 tablespoons of salt daily. Winter and summer - Salt was increased to get her to drink after an 11 day bought of impaction colic a few years back.

-LeeAnne & Dawn, Newmarket, Ont PPID & IR 03/2004
Case History:
Yahoo Hoof Pics:
Newer Off-Site Hoof Pics:



Hi, I saved a copy of the form to the computer in PDF form but I am unable to fill it out.
Nothing happens. I'm not that computer savvy. Thanks.

Susan in CT

CoCo Pony wont eat his pergolide!

Angela <aprenosil@...>

Well, it's been over a year now since my 20 somethin shetland pony has been takin 1mg dose of pergolide (apple flaovored capsule) with great results physically. Blood tests are good :)
My big problem is he has completely turned his nose up at anything in or around a pergolide capsule...apples, carrots, molasses (yes I know he's not supposed to have these)grapes, in his dish, in another horses dish, on his hay, in peppermints, in my hand, ..HELP!
He won't even eat a carrot without pergolide on his hay pile....what is it about this med?....never had a horse that was so difficult. He;s super shy about anything you do, so I doubt I would be able to syringe it every day!
Thanks for your ideas!
Angela & CoCoPOny

Re: RePost - high insulin from other sources


Still hoping for a response.... thank you.

Re-reading the Cornell lab test info. I'm wondering about high insulin from other sources. Has this group encountered cases of high insulin triggered by a disease process or condition other than IR and PPID?
Thanks in advance.
Paula, MT

Pergolide Prascend Transition


I haven't been paying as much attention to the group lately as Maverick has been doing great on 1.75mg of compounded Pergolide in capsule form for several years.

Now my vet doesn't want to give me prescription anymore and wants to switch to Prascend.

My concern is that I have heard the Prascend can't really be broken up and my choice would be 1mg or 2mg. Is this true?

I have also heard about reducing dosage when going to Prascend, but at this time of year would I dare to reduce to 1mg?

Also no capsule form only tablet? I've been feeding the capsule in a handful of low carb feed for many years with no issues. Have horses been eating the tablet as well?

I did some searching of old posts before writing this but couldn't quite get a grasp on exactly what the advice would be for this.

Not only am I concerned about the changing to Prascend at this time of year but the pricing too. I'm guessing that my cost might double???

Maverick does have a case history but not sure how to find the link anymore -- I haven't changed his dosage in many years and have only slightly changed his diet so I haven't updated it in a long time.

Thanks in advance

Vancouver WA
Maverick -- Joined Group approx Jan 2004


tomtriv <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>

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Powder Pergolide versus Prascend

Saucier Kathy

I hesitated to send this info in because the horse does not have a case
history on this group nor do the owner or the trainer want to join this
group. But thought the info was interesting and just wanted to add it to
info coming in on the comparison of the meds.

The horse is a 6 year old mare diagnosed by another test that I don't know
the name of but is not the eACTH or Dex Sup.

All I know is they said positive.

We had our doubts that the test was accurate especially given her age, but
early this summer she had not shed out. She had foot soreness since last
witner but with the RISQU (hope I got those letters right) test, she was not
IR. I do not know if there were any other symptoms.

She was on 1 mg of powder Pergolide through Smart Pak since early spring.

This summer they switched to 1 mg Prascend.

Immediate turn around. She began to shed out (months after all other
horses) and she became sound and moving well for the first time this year.

I'm sorry this doesn't follow our normal protocol for case histories but I
have no control over it. But wanted to share the info especially for those
who are concerned about Prascend.

Kathy Saucier


Jan 2005 (no longer have a C's or IR horse myself)

Update: Dawn doing not bad at all :-)

tomtriv <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>

Dawn is doing much better! She is now on 13mgs (just started that dosage 2 days ago). Also want to report not really tapering as I need to bring the dosage up fast. Dawn is a little jumpy and wanders away from her "lunch" occasionally but this is all I see of veil. I'm sure she is still having issues with hunger as she trotted (and looked sound to me on soft ground!) up to the barn for her last lunch at this particular boarding stable.

Her feet seem to be fantastic. She was lead about a half mile down a paved road to her new home. I put her boots and pads on but the front ones fell off (my fault as it was raining and I ran out of time to dry her feet before applying the tape so it didn't stick very well). I am thrilled to report she walked out amazingly. No gimping even on stoney driveways. All is not perfect as she is still a little sore on that right hind though. Regardless, I am thrilled to say she is doing very well. In a few more weeks we will get another ACTH Test and see if the ACTH is as controlled as hoped.

FYI: Recently she went from
April 2012 - Dosage of 8mgs of compounded pergo and ACTH of 43.2 pmol/L (Ref 2-10 pmol/L)
July 2012 - Dosage of 11mgs of compounded pergo and ACTH of 35 pmol/L (ref 2-10pmol/L)

So lets see what 13mgs controls in August!
Oh and I have never had her settle in so fast. Dawn never called for her old herd once and seemed to really enjoy the walk over. She went in her new stall and started eating her wet cubes right away. We put the other two horses in the barn too and all was great - the horse she doesn't know was right beside her (there is a a barred window between the stalls) and there was only minor squealing and no kicking that we saw. I'll head to the barn in a few minutes to put them out together but since she already knows one horse from previous boarding stable and spent the night right beside (with window) the new 28 year old mare, this probably will go very well.

-LeeAnne & Dawn, Newmarket, Ont PPID & IR 03/2004
Case History:
All Season Muzzle Photos:
Hoof Pics:

Re: Pergolide dosing

tomtriv <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>

I have a question for those of you who have horses that are on higher doses of Prascend (2 mg and up).

How much do you give and how do you dose it? Do you give all of it once a day or do you split it? If you split, how much in each dose?

Hi Maria,
I have my mare on 13mg (yes thirteen and expect to go higher soon with the pre-winter seasonal ACTH rise). However it is not Prascend but compounded pergolide(and I believe Lorna also is using compounded).

I give full dosage in the mid afternoon to early evening - after a meal. I used to split but that did not work out so well due to difficulty with boarding situation.

You can see my mare's long case history here if you like:

Just because I am one of the "staff" doesn't mean I know everything. I know a little but as you'll see, I don't have total control over ACTH, Despite being highly active in the group since 2004, I have not "heard" all that has been said here. If I'd been smarter about the physical symptoms I would have started the process of getting my mare on higher dosages long ago and not had to suffer "minor" founder this spring.

I guess what I'm trying to say is just because she has a long and full case history and I am "staff", it doesn't mean I have managed my mare as well as could be hoped. Until it happened, I thought Dawn had a 90% chance of never foundering. HA!
- LeeAnne 03/04
Newmarket, Ont
ECIR Archivist

Are you in the Pergolide Database?
ECIR Files Table of Contents:

Re: Can a horse OD on salt?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

--- In, "Cynthia B." <cboriskin@...> wrote:

On the 27th, I provided 1# of plain salt. After 2 1/2 days, it was licked clean. On the 30th, I gave him another pound. On the 31st, it was pretty close to finished off. The 27th, 28th and 29th, the weather has been about 97 degrees. On the 30th it was 105 degrees.
The extra urination alone indicates he is taking in more than he actually needs but frankly that's better than the opposite.

How big is he and how much does he sweat?

Eleanor in PA
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001

Re: FDA pulled Thyro-L ??

Eleanor Kellon, VMD

--- In, "Stacy" <saberger@...> wrote:
- I called to reorder Thyro-L and was told by the pharmacy they no longer can get it as the FDA is no longer approving it. I called my vet who said she also can no longer get it.

Not sure what the problem is, but there are two recalls on their small animal products for potency issues:


There is an alternative:

The flavoring is probably not a problem at the small amounts used.

Eleanor in PA
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001

Re: new hay for analyse

Marianne Herzberger

--- In, "eelmanm" <bommenede72@...> wrote:

Do you use blgg for hay analyse Marianne ??
Yes, I did - they are dependable if you want to know the regular things like dry matter, energy, minerals etc. They also give you a number for 'sugar' but this is all sugars and starch together. In case you need to know exactly what the ESC+ Starch is according to the guidelines of the EC|IR group for Insulin Resistent horses, then they won't be able to differentiate that. In my case I had the hay tested by Forage Plus in the UK - to determine the ESC+Starch I believe they send it on to Equi-analytical in the USA.
So depending on what you are looking for in the hay, you can use BLGG Agri-expert but if you need to know the 'sugar level' you need to go abroad. Samples of the BLGG and Forage Plus analysis are in my case history.

In case you would need more advice, I suggest you contact Sandra Wedman who has followed the courses with Dr Kellon and who can help you out perfectly on the basis of your hay analysis. This is her website:

Marianne | The Netherlands | EC 2011

Re: ACTH results, need help

zanadonnelly <zanadonnelly@...>

Thank you for responding soon.

And I am making the connection that his diet is safe??
Yes, his diet is good and safe.

I will stop J herb as soon as I get the pergolide and I will start him on APF.
I need to know how long he should be on it and when I can put him back on JH. I worry about his laminitis. Is it something he needs to be on for the rest of his life? If it's beneficial and good for his health I will make sure he gets it.
I am sorry to say I am not good at keeping a journal, but I know him well and I know when he is not feeling good and I do not have a problem getting the vet to see him. He's been with the same vet since he was 9 y.o. My best friend is now 26&1/2.
He is also IR since age 24.
If there is anything else I need to do for him, please let me know.
I have learned a lot from all of you and I thank you. I will keep you informed of his progress. I do have one very good news, his superficial flexor tendon tear Lt. hind is healing well, his rehab is 45 min under saddle ( 25 to 30 min walking and 15 to 20 min trotting ) I will keep it at that as long as his feet are ok and re do the ultrasound in 2 months. I am determine to help him heal and stabilize his IR and PPID.

Zana and Mardi Gras,
Bay Area, CA 2/2012
Case History:

Re: Can a horse OD on salt?


Check out the salt intake and at the
same time monitor him for other symptoms, keeping regular notes.<

On the 27th, I provided 1# of plain salt. After 2 1/2 days, it was licked clean. On the 30th, I gave him another pound. On the 31st, it was pretty close to finished off. The 27th, 28th and 29th, the weather has been about 97 degrees. On the 30th it was 105 degrees. I wasn't sure if I should give him more salt or not. Should I be restricting how much I offer?

Other than the amount of salt he's eating and the number of times he's urinating (I'm assuming he's urinating often because he's drinking more due to the salt intake), weight is good, topline is good, feet good, eyes, nose and mouth are good. His overall looks are great and his attitude is as well.

Cynthia in CA
Tucker 10/10

joint supp

congleton <juliecongleton@...>

so had my first chiro assessment today, and she wants me to add a joint supplement. I see that joan at my best horse has ha powder that we mix with water. Um, I have never been told to use a joint supplement....and the horses are is, what should I look at?
I am non-i.r.
thanks, julie in nc. 9/07

Re: ACTH results, need help

Linda <PapBallou@...>

I am going to call a few Pharmacies in the morning and order Pergolide capsules and start him on 0.25mg for 5 days than increase every 5 days .25 mg till I get to 1 mg.

Hi Zana -

Really very typical for this time of the year. And please keep a journal of what you see, do, etc, so that you have an idea as to what to be prepared for next year so you're not playing too much of pergolice catch-up. That can get old and frustrating.

APF would be a better choice for the pergolide veil. It also provides some circulatory support as well, so a few weeks off of J should not be a problem. Plus, you need to get him onto the pergolide since that is the big player in keeping his PPID controlled.

Some horses have no issues at all starting the pergolide. It's just better to be safe than sorry. Actually, it seems that most simply become accustomed to it so when you make increases in the fall, they don't seem to care. Pap was up to 10mg last fall for a few weeks and he kept right on keeping on...

And I am making the connection that his diet is safe??

EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004

ACTH results, need help

zanadonnelly <zanadonnelly@...>

Hi, I just received Mardi Gras's acth results done on 07/30/12, it is up to 37pg/ml. Last one done on 01/19/12 was 26pg/ml ( normal 9-35 ). I am going to call a few Pharmacies in the morning and order Pergolide capsules and start him on 0.25mg for 5 days than increase every 5 days .25 mg till I get to 1 mg. I'll retest him after a month on 1 mg. To help decrease Perg.Vail, it says to use APF. MG is on J herb x2 pr day. Do I need to stop it and give him APF.? I do not know which is better, both are adaptogens. I need one of the experts to tell me, please.
I suspected his acth is probably going up because of his symptoms, lack of energy, eyes drainage and sensitive front feet. I am sooo glad I did not wait till September to test him.
I am having his feet done every 2 weeks since I posted his xrays and pics. They are coming along nicely.

Zana and Mardi Gras,
Bay Area, CA 2/2012
Case History:

Re: FDA pulled Thyro-L ?? <jessicabmorris@...>

Thyro-L is on temporary backorder. It should be available again in the next few weeks.

--- In, "Stacy" <saberger@...> wrote:

So the problem - I called to reorder Thyro-L and was told by the pharmacy they no longer can get it as the FDA is no longer approving it. I called my vet who said she also can no longer get it.

Re: Healthy mouth for horses safe with yucca in it?

Lavinia <dnlf@...>

My equine dentist recommends Healthy Mouth for my miniature horse. She had a pocket in her gums at the base of her teeth.<> The pocket is nearly gone and her breath is better. Her water bucket was extremely smelly before and now is not since using the Healthy Mouth. I would dilute the Healthy Mouth with water and rinse/syringe her mouth.
Hi Jan,
I wouldn't feed it to my horse. It contains cinnamon, riboflavin(vit B2), and vit C along with the yucca. All of these ingredients are contra-indicated in an IR equine. Don't understand WHY it would be of any help taken internally for an oral issue. What was the pocket at the base of her teeth? Did the dentist say?

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

Re: Huge Drop in ACTH

Lavinia <dnlf@...>

My mule was recently diagnosed PPID and put on 1 mg prascend about 5 weeks ago. A week ago I had him retested for ACTH and insulin. His ACTH dropped from 241 to 16 and his insulin dropped from 50 to 12.
I know I should be happy and truly I am... but are these expected results? He is affected by the prascend in terms of depression and lack of interest in food. However, I'm reluctant to back off on the prascend dosage because we're going into or are into the seasonal rise.
Hi Terri,
Nothing wrong with these results. How rapidly and how well an equid reacts to pergolide(Prascend) is individual. I definitely would not be backing off the doseage at this time of year as ACTH levels will be rising now. Can reassess after the rise-season in Dec/Jan.
The "pergolide veil" issues of depression and lack of interest in food are experienced by many equines when first starting pergolide(Prascend). It is temporary. Have you tried adding APF to your mule's daily regimen to help counteract this problem? It is an adaptogen made by Auburn labs.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team

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