Date   

Re: Grade 1 Laminitis?

lauramollrich <lmollrich@...>
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "drkellon" <drkellon@...> wrote:

Hi Dr. Kellon,

From what you are seeing on these x-rays, should I be changing Pabatsa's diet?

I am concerned about the inflammation you say is there. My shoer says to me Pabatsa has laminitis because of the way his feet look at the stretched white line (which looks decayed) and because of the rings on all 4's. I am wondering if I should be expecting an abscess? When I can get him out again (he lives over 1 hr. away) I will take photos.

I was told this can be infectious arthritis? If so could can a farrier cause it by driving in a nail?

Can Pabatsa's LF broken back axis be fixed because it's the low heel part of his low/high conformation?

Also, can you tell me which feet your are describing for the ringbone, widened joint space, lamellar zone, and sinking? Is the zero palmar angle and broken back pastern axis something a shoer can cause in the way they trimmed the foot? If so I am going to keep looking for a qualified person that can shoe him. Can it be fixed?

Just how serious is all of this for Pabatsa? I am having a nervous breakdown over all of this. As Lorna says, "Take a deep breath."

By the way, I posted this on this group when the site was down because I was told this would be answered here. Should I move this over to ECHoof?

Laura Mollrich
Laguna Beach, CA
1/2012


There's no change in the coffin bones. He has active ringbone, widened coffin joint space likely from inflammation and increased joint fluid. There is sinking but it hasn't changed in years. The horn lamellar zone is wider than normal for a thoroughbred but probably not for a warmblood. He has zero palmar angle and on the left his hoof pastern axis is broken back.
Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Jiao Gu Lan etc

danissyo
 

My miniature pony isn't recovering fully from a bout of founder despite correct diet and management.

Carol Layton advised Acetyl Carnitine, AAKG and Jiaojulan and said I should join this group and ask for dosages.

The pony would weigh less than 150kg.

Help please.

Helen


Re: new to this site ,need advice on supplements for my mare with IR

gypsylassie
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "kitty_catlady59" <kitty_catlady59@...> wrote:

I just found this site and am I ever grateful!! my horse is a Missouri Fox Trotter,newly diagnosed with Insulin Resistence.......
can someone share what has been successful with their horse with IR??
Hi Renee, You'll be getting a welcome with alot of details from one of the pros, but in the meantime... The 1st thing I did was pull Chappie off pasture completely and do the drylot. You'll be getting straight grass hay, magnesium, vit E capsules made with oil, Stabilized ground flax seed , (Horse Tech or Omega Fields) and iodized table salt, to start out.
The hay should be analyzed for sugar and starch to see if it's safe and minerals for balancing. You can soak your hay for now to remove sugars - 1 hr cold or 1/2 hr hot. There's alot to it but once you get going with it, it's not bad. I've been doing the protocol with Chappie for over a year now and he's doing well , you and your horse will too. When I joined, I was bad at computers . The way I get to the files from the e-mails, is to click on an e-mail, then scroll down to " short-cut to url" .....messages., and click on that.Then when the messages pop up, along the left side there's a "files" you can click on and just start with "Start Here". You'll have alot to read for a start and can ask questions as they pop up. I'm so glad your girl didn't founder and you caught it in time.
Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL.2011


Re: how to calculate total protein

Nancy C
 

Hi Jean

Your spread sheet shows she's getting adequate crude protein at 767 grams. Maintenance requirements for and average horse of her size would be 573 grams. (See Line 8)

She might benefit from additional amino acids though: lysine, leucine threonine if you are not still using the Tri Amino.

The control of the PPID is critical though and the protein won't over ride uncontrolled Cushing's.

Could also add more BP and or up the Cubes. Check Dr kellon's message just now to Sarah re: older horse muscle issues for chewing. If the ACTH is controlled upping the Cubes could be a huge help for her. At 26 she may be having a hard time getting all she can from the hay

I'd skip the enrich.

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/166280>
<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/165484>
<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/165521>

Let us know about your blood work!

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Jean" <bdzfarm@...> wrote:

Hi, Could someone please tell me how to calculate the total protein in Lady's diet.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory2/files/LadyBey/


Re: Equimins Advance Concentrate Meta Balance Formula 1 or 2?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "shesky1996" <shesky1996@...> wrote:

thank you Lavinia - I want to be prepared as last year he did get quite skinny do I just wanted to make sure I knew what to do of I needed to.

If he drops weight on his new diet and I need to add Oats, which Oats?
Just to make this perfectly clear, weight loss is not a reason to feed oats. Oats are used ONLY to help boost liver and muscle glycogen in IR horses that are in work. Timing of the feeding is very important.

If the horse is not in work, you need safe concentrated fiber sources of calories, like beet pulp or soy hulls. Older horses may also have issues with efficiently utilizing their hay because of changes in the angle of their tooth chewing surface - an issue entirely separately from missing or diseased teeth. Well soaked/wet hay pellets/cubes can make a huge difference for those horses.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Duplicate blood work

Melanie Pewe <melaniepewe67@...>
 

Vet was here at 8am. Pulled duplicate blood work for I/G, acth from MSU and
Cornell. 17 tests from msu since 03, but I question results. Vet skeptical
about comparing lab to lab. Wasn't happy Cornell charged FedEx expense to
ship mailing labels. Vet hasnt used Cornell in 5 yrs. Will post results
next week.

Melanie
In ND w a 26 yr old IR/ppid mare
Member since 1/04


new to this site ,need advice on supplements for my mare with IR

kitty_catlady59
 

Hello,
I just found this site and am I ever grateful!! my horse is a Missouri Fox Trotter,newly diagnosed with Insulin Resistence.......
I have made some dietary changes that her vet reommended,however ,all the researh I`ve done is confusing me as to what supplements she should be on........

her feet do seem tender ,x rays were done ,no sign of laminitis ,but the vet said it is very possible for her to have sore feet anyway with Insulin Resistence............

I heard L Carnitine is good for horses with tender feet ,also biotin supplements ,as well as magnesium supplements........

can someone share what has been successful with their horse with IR??

Most Grateful,

Renee


Re: lost blood samples

Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

Hi Jennifer,
If the samples remain frozen they are fine. Once thawed, they start to degrade. Will depend on what condition they are received in. If they don't arrive today I would be looking for a refund from the shipper for all the costs you incurred, not only the shipping costs. And would redo the bloodwork.

Lavinia, Dante. George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Sonny hay

Nancy C
 

You only need to add copper and zinc if you drop the IH.

Right on the biotin and methionine if you keep the IH.

See? Easy.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...


lost blood samples

millionairess1989
 

How long are plasma blood samples good for? The ACTH & insulin sample was frozen and the glucose sample was refrigerated. Both were shipped with ice packs from KY going to Cornell. They were sent express mail at 2:30pm yesterday, with delivery guaranteed by 3pm today and are missing. If the box turns up is there any value to having the tests done?

Jennifer & Mill in TN
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory3/Millionairess


Re: Gabapentine

Marianne Herzberger
 

Thanks Nancy! But I assume it is not specifically targeted at insuline resistence itself, but possibly at pain resulting from that situation such as laminitis?

Marianne | The Netherlands | EC 2011

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Nancy" <threecatfarm@...> wrote:

Hi Marianne

Not Dr Kellon here but while you are on line.....

Gabapentine has been discussed before - prescribed for neuropathic pain. Recommendation from here is generally Acetyl-L-Carnitine as it works better. You can find background info by doing a message archive search.

** Archived Messages - How to Search this treasure trove of information and history

<http://tinyurl.com/767cxyy>

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...





--- In EquineCushings@..., Jannepauli <jannepauli@> wrote:

Dr Kellon,
 
what are your thoughts on Gabapentin as medication for Insulin Resistant horses?


Re: Equimins Advance Concentrate Meta Balance Formula 1 or 2?

shesky1996 <shesky1996@...>
 

thank you Lavinia - I want to be prepared as last year he did get quite skinny do I just wanted to make sure I knew what to do of I needed to.

Sarah and Shesky, UK

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Lavinia" <dnlf@...> wrote:

If he drops weight on his new diet and I need to add Oats, which Oats? Whole, Rolled, Crushed or doesn't it matter? Shesould they be soaked or not?
I was also advised to only feed these when he had worked hard, but wouldnt that cause colic? Is it better to feed a very small amount each day so that when I do need to feed a 50:50 oat/beet split, he is used to them?
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Shesky1996/
Hi Sarah,
You only need to consider the oats addition if Shesky is not able to maintain proper weight and energy on a correct, mineral-balanced, hay-based diet while working regularly.
The type of oats doesn't matter. No, you don't need to soak them. Just mix it in 50-50 (by dry weight) with the beet pulp and feed within one hour of completeion of exercise. DO NOT use at any other time. The reason to use only at this time is that after exercise the body is able to use the resulting glucose thru a different pathway than the usual insulin-directed one so that the body can absorb the fuel. Normally, the oats will lead to an insulin spike that can set off laminitis in an IR horse. Here is the link to the "Feeding Laminitics Recovered when back to work" file":

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/files/%203%20%20CORE%20DIET%2C%20ANALYSIS%2C%20NUTRITIONAL%20NEEDS/Feeding%20Recovered%20Laminitics/

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Equimins Advance Concentrate Meta Balance Formula 1 or 2?

shesky1996 <shesky1996@...>
 

Thank you do much! I actually made the right decision for a change :)

--- In EquineCushings@..., "drkellon" <drkellon@...> wrote:

--- In EquineCushings@..., "shesky1996" <shesky1996@> wrote:

I went for Formula 2 as it is higher in Magnesium and Copper, was this the right thing to do?

Yes, you want Formula 2, which also has no added iron.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Sonny hay

Deb Barnes
 

You'd be using about one ounce per day of the Equi-Phos. There are 16 ounces in a pound. 20 pounds will last a really long time - my math says almost a year (20x16 = 320). That's 22 cents a day.
I understand that, but this 100 bales will not last a year. I'll be lucky if it lasts until the end of November. Then I'll be getting new hay, new testing, new balances. So it does not pay me to get large amts. I see Horse Tech has Phos-4 in 5 lb packages.

And just an FYI- I have not been able to access Horse Tech ever in Firefox. I had to come over to IE to find them.

You can use any other product as long as it gives the right amount of biotin and methionine. You were giving 20 mg biotin and 4200 mg of methionine in the Integrity Hoof.
So if I cut my IH in half, I need to add 10 mg biotin and 2100 mg of methionine?
Then how much zinc and copper do I need to add? Or do I only add zinc and copper in place of the IH? Do I sound confused??????

Yes, you need to join out sister lists like you joined here.
Joined.:-)
Deb & Sonny
2010, PA
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Deb%20B%20in%20PA/


Re: Wormers

mirald82
 

I have read the document about combination wormers, but not sure what to make of it. Has anyone experienced laminitis after using praziquantel or is this only a hypothetical possibility? Has anyone used Equimax without any problems?

Is there any other worming agent that's effective for both bots and tapes besides those containing praz.?

If not, the alternative to Equimax would be to use three times the amount of wormer; ivermectin and double pyrantel. That feels like a large dose of poisons. Not sure how wise that is either?

/Maria
Sweden
March 2011


Seasonal rise and pergolide?

Chanda
 

Ok, so I understand increasing pergolide to counteract the effects of the seasonal rise, but by the same token, is the pergolide then decreased again after the seasonal rise is over? And, if so, about when does it start to decrease?
Chanda
MT 9/04


how to calculate total protein

Jean
 

Hi, Could someone please tell me how to calculate the total protein in Lady's diet. Her history and nutrient spreadsheet are in the link below. Just had a new vet out to test ACTH after raising Prascend to 1.5mg in July. Crossing our fingers and hoping for good numbers. We agree that the uncontrolled ACTH has led to weight loss. He suggested adding protein to her diet and using a goal of 11.5-12% protein. He thought that enrich 32 would be a good addition to her diet. Any other suggestions?
Thank you,
Jean and Lady
CT 2005

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory2/files/LadyBey/


Re: Mule Foundered 3rd time in 15 yrs

Cindy McGinley
 

"Karen" <ket62@...> wrote:

Not totally sure how to do it.
This might help: http://www.ironfreehoof.com/equine-digital-pulses.html

- Cindy & Alf (with entourage) in NY
EC Support
May 2006


Re: Mule Foundered 3rd time in 15 yrs

Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

My husbands mule we think has foundered again. This will be the 3rd time in 15 yrs. Starting emergency diet but he doesnt like the beet pulp. Any ideas and how much to feed. HE is about 120 lbs. He even grazes with a muzzle!
Also should we have him xrayed to be sure>? Cant think of anything else that is going on. He is standing leaning back and walking gingerly. I put him in a stall with shaving and 2 yr old hay.
Hi Karen
Sorry to hear your boy isn sore. How tall is your mule? Are you sure he is only 120 lbs? You want to feed him 1.5% - 2% of his ideal weight in forage per day. Beet pulp isn't necessary - it is useful for putting supplements into. Where are you located? If you have Triple Crown products available in your area then you can get the Ontario Dehy Balanced Timothy cubes. They could be his total diet as they are formulated to be less than 10% sugar+starch (guaranteed). Just add ground flax, iodized table salt and vit e gelcaps for the complete, safe, balanced diet.
Unless the hay was tested for ESC+Starch, you have no way of knowing if it is safe or not. Need to soak it (60 min in cold water or 30 min in hot), drain water where he can't reach it and feed.No more pasture at all.
Can you post hoof pics for us? This way the hoof gurus can make sure his trim is optimal. Abscessing is a possibility. So is PPID at this time of year. Need to go back to DDT/E to figure this out. Do you have a case history posted for him? If not, would you please put one up here:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/

Xrays will tell you if he is foundered - has he had xrays before to compare to? Laminitis itself won't show up, however.
Would you please remember to add your general location and year of joining to your posts. Helps us to locate resources in your area. Thanks.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Mule Foundered 3rd time in 15 yrs

Karen <ket62@...>
 

Not totally sure how to do it.

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Cindy L. McGinley" <cmcginl1@...> wrote:

Hi Karen,

Do you know how to check pulses? Check to see if both feet have pulses. It could be an abscess if it's only one. Relief from acute laminitis and abscess are exactly opposite, so it's important to get an idea of which it might be. Often equids who have foundered are prone to abscessing, and often the stance is similar.

I'm sure someone else will elaborate more, but I just wanted to put the idea out there.

- Cindy & Alf (with entourage) in NY
EC Support
May 2006



Sent from my iPad

On Aug 28, 2012, at 1:40 PM, "Karen" <ket62@...> wrote:

My husbands mule we think has foundered again. This will be the 3rd time in 15 yrs. Starting emergency diet but he doesnt like the beet pulp. Any ideas and how much to feed. HE is about 120 lbs. He even grazes with a muzzle!

Also should we have him xrayed to be sure>? Cant think of anything else that is going on. He is standing leaning back and walking gingerly. I put him in a stall with shaving and 2 yr old hay.

Thank you!
karen




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