Date   

Re: unhealthy feet and nutrition

tomtriv <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>
 

Thanks Nancy,
I think abscess has been ruled out because she is not reacting to hoof testers? Farrier used them on the 6th and again on the 8th. He's coming back on the 22nd.

-LeeAnne & Dawn, Newmarket, Ont PPID & IR 03/2004
Case History: http://tinyurl.com/yk7mvd6
Photos: http://tinyurl.com/6h64yh
Yahoo Hoof Pics: http://tinyurl.com/6qc79x6
Newer Off-Site Hoof Pics: http://tinyurl.com/6shyrxr
Video: http://tinyurl.com/5u2pdkv


Re: unhealthy feet and nutrition

tomtriv <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>
 

Canker?
Hi Pat
Yikes. Just googled it and I sure hope not. Icky yuck gah. I'd say no as there is no growth but a lack of tissue. Thanks for the idea though. Even though the farrier says it isn't thrush (not sure why but will ask next time I see him) it smells like thrush or "toe jam" which likely is just a mild case of thrush?

Until I looked into thrush treatments, I thought a line of black goo along the frog edge was pretty much "normal". I think it was on Heiki's site that it was said that, though very common, the line of black goo (thrush?) is not "normal" for a healthy hoof.

Now maybe Dawn broke her frog, is sloughing it or did have an abscess (doubtful as she wasn't THAT lame) that ruptured out the back leaving a cavity for thrush to thrive. We're getting that under control but there is still a little pocket that may need further cutting - but she isn't so sore on the foot now. It is now her other front foot that she is limping mostly on.

Today I'm going to go armed to the teeth with lots of time, brushes and soap to really clean those feet foot and try her in all four hoof boots to see if it helps with her limping.

Thrush - thought I knew all about it. I'm not surprised at the truth of the saying "The more I learn about horses, the more I learn how much I don't know" but it is astounding how often I end up thinking it. ;-)
Laminitis, founder and abscess, oh my!

-LeeAnne & Dawn, Newmarket, Ont PPID & IR 03/2004
Case History: http://tinyurl.com/yk7mvd6
Photos: http://tinyurl.com/6h64yh
Yahoo Hoof Pics: http://tinyurl.com/6qc79x6
Newer Off-Site Hoof Pics: http://tinyurl.com/6shyrxr
Video: http://tinyurl.com/5u2pdkv


Re: unhealthy feet and nutrition

Nancy C
 

Hi LeeAnne

Adding in biotin and methionine may be a good idea if she's not growing hoof well. I use 20 mg and 1.5 grams, respectively, for Beau. He's 950 lbs.

Lavinia's right the Farrier's Formula could upset the ODTB balance.

Abscess, canker can be helped by numotizine pack. www.numotizine.com

Slather it on, cover with a bit of gauze or thin sanitary pad, wrap with vet wrap.

Over the years have found the thrush issue can be as much about the trim as well as the diet.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., "tomtriv" <ThePitchforkPrincess@...> wrote:

-LeeAnne & Dawn, Newmarket, Ont PPID & IR 03/2004
Case History: http://tinyurl.com/yk7mvd6
Photos: http://tinyurl.com/6h64yh
Yahoo Hoof Pics: http://tinyurl.com/6qc79x6
Newer Off-Site Hoof Pics: http://tinyurl.com/6shyrxr
Video: http://tinyurl.com/5u2pdkv


Re: Increase Prascend???

Nancy C
 

Hi Karen

Had understood you had planned on retesting. Laid out a road map for you that could help you budget and plan for expenditures here:

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/173109>

Based on what you had told us it was #1 Retest to see if diagnosis portion is covered. #2 Go to the emergency diet as outlined in the message above. #3 Move to testing and balancing your hay as funds allow.

It is true that on average ACTH begins to come down in November. If his melanomas are increasing, I'd go up on the pergolide.

His lack of energy could also be diet related so working through that as suggested is important.

Sorry. I wish it were more simple. For me the hardest part was changing old horse keeping practices. Once I got over that, we made real progress.

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

--- In EquineCushings@..., karen sremac <karenclarinet@...> wrote:

I wish I was THAT GOOD, Karen! He may need only 1 mg. With his crest and
the melanomas, if he were here, I'd increase to 1.5 mg and retest in three


Re: Pookey's 'drinking problem'--need advice!

Lisa S
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Gary & Kathy Saucier" <gksaucier@...> wrote:

Could ulcers cause a horse not to want to drink?
Kathy,

We are considering the possibility of colonic ulcers/right dorsal colitis, though he does not appear to be uncomfortable at all.

My dilemma is this: because he still tests as uncompensated IR, I do not want to give him anything that is going to help his current problem, but trigger laminitis.

So does anyone know how one might manage an IR horse suspected of having colonic ulcers?

Gastric ulcers I 'get'--we have been there before!

Would Succeed be a good option to try, or should I just trickle feed him alfalfa for a bit to see if that helps? He IS eating a bale of nice alfalfa I picked up yesterday.

Nancy and Suzie- we did an oral exam (WNL) but could have missed an imbedded grass awn or foreign body. Will try to x-ray. In his youth, when he was on pasture or bad hay, he would occasionally get sore spots in his mouth--but they always drove him to drink MORE water, not less. And he is chewing quite normally when he does eat the grass or alfalfa.

Thanks for helping me think this through.

Lisa in TX
Pookey Bear
June 2010


Re: unhealthy feet and nutrition

Pat
 

Canker?

Pat
NC, June/12

On Nov 11, 2012, at 7:36 AM, "tomtriv" <ThePitchforkPrincess@...> wrote:

Howdy Group,
Dawn has been having a lot of foot health issues for the past few weeks. She's been foot sore, limping on different feet on different days. The farrier found a nasty pocket of bacterial growth in her left front and had to take off much of her frog. I've been treating all feet for thrush. Then there is that weird V-shaped thing on her right hind. A B.C. farrier (Heather) thinks it is a bacterial infection of the horn and that all these problems (abscess, bacterial and fungal infections) are due to unhealthy hooves. She suggested this might be helped with a hoof supplement.

I don't know if Heather is familiar with ODTB cubes but in message # 149641 Lavinia advised another member using them not to supplement with Farrier's Formula (the one I was considering till someone said it used alfalfa) as it might upset the cubes' balance. However, if Dawn's feet are not doing well (for what ever reason, old age, PPID, etc) would adding more Biotin, Methionine/Zinc, Calcium and possibly Copper be a bad thing?

Or should I just get some biotin and give her 20mg per day to see if it helps?

-LeeAnne & Dawn, Newmarket, Ont PPID & IR 03/2004
Case History: http://tinyurl.com/yk7mvd6
Photos: http://tinyurl.com/6h64yh
Yahoo Hoof Pics: http://tinyurl.com/6qc79x6
Newer Off-Site Hoof Pics: http://tinyurl.com/6shyrxr
Video: http://tinyurl.com/5u2pdkv


unhealthy feet and nutrition

tomtriv <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>
 

Howdy Group,
Dawn has been having a lot of foot health issues for the past few weeks. She's been foot sore, limping on different feet on different days. The farrier found a nasty pocket of bacterial growth in her left front and had to take off much of her frog. I've been treating all feet for thrush. Then there is that weird V-shaped thing on her right hind. A B.C. farrier (Heather) thinks it is a bacterial infection of the horn and that all these problems (abscess, bacterial and fungal infections) are due to unhealthy hooves. She suggested this might be helped with a hoof supplement.

I don't know if Heather is familiar with ODTB cubes but in message # 149641 Lavinia advised another member using them not to supplement with Farrier's Formula (the one I was considering till someone said it used alfalfa) as it might upset the cubes' balance. However, if Dawn's feet are not doing well (for what ever reason, old age, PPID, etc) would adding more Biotin, Methionine/Zinc, Calcium and possibly Copper be a bad thing?

Or should I just get some biotin and give her 20mg per day to see if it helps?

-LeeAnne & Dawn, Newmarket, Ont PPID & IR 03/2004
Case History: http://tinyurl.com/yk7mvd6
Photos: http://tinyurl.com/6h64yh
Yahoo Hoof Pics: http://tinyurl.com/6qc79x6
Newer Off-Site Hoof Pics: http://tinyurl.com/6shyrxr
Video: http://tinyurl.com/5u2pdkv


Re: Increase Prascend???

karen sremac <karenclarinet@...>
 

So, my next question is, based on what you have seen all these years, is
it possible he only needs 1 mg for now? Or highly unlikely?
Should I test now, at 1 mg during seasonal rise?
or raise to 1.5 and wait 3 weeks and test?
Or just test later?
I wish I was THAT GOOD, Karen! He may need only 1 mg. With his crest and
the melanomas, if he were here, I'd increase to 1.5 mg and retest in three
weeks.

If the crest doesn't go down with these continued diet changes, I'd look to
the Cushing's as driving it.


Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

Hi Nancy,
I got overwhelmed and confused and never really got clear signals to go up
on prascend, so I didn't.
Now, however, the weather has cooled down and he still lacks energy and
stamina. No other clear symptoms...
at least not clear to me. So now I am wondering if I should go up on
prascend, or if the seasonal rise is coming
back down, and he will be ok to stay on 1 mg.

Many thanks,

Karen in Calif

Serrano 22 yr Arab G

new Sept 2012

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/files/Karen%20%26%20Serrano%20in%20Calif/


Ontario Dehydrated BALANCED Timothy Cubes

magnificent.pony <magnificent.pony@...>
 

My error. I posted regarding the Ontario cubes using an incomplete (and thus inaccurate) heading. The Product is Ontario Dehydrated BALANCED Timothy Cubes. The "Balanced" matters.

They are made by ontariodehy.com the phone number is 1-877-289-3349 the email is info@...

They are quite responsive to inquirys and will help you find the product in your area. I talked to Eunice and Aurelio about my pony Spike in Olympia WA. They are helping me get the product to Olympia. They will stick with you until you have what you need.

LindaD
Olympia WA


Re: Clarified post Dandy and Rusty re-test results

 

Thank you (again) Linda,

I think you've come up with a great plan. He's on a low dose
(0.5 mg) and that might be cheap protection through the winter as a 'just in case'.

Also, my apologies to the group. I just reread my previous post and there was a slight (ahem) typo...

Jan (time to log off and go to bed!)~ Dandy and Rusty
PNW (WA)
1/09
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Jan%20Monstad/
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Jan%20Monstad/

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Linda" <PapBallou@...> wrote:

You could leave him on it until April, take him off and test and see what his baseline is during the lowest time of the year. Then decide from there as to how to approach next fall.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Ontario Dehydrated Timothy Cubes

magnificent.pony <magnificent.pony@...>
 

I believe what you want is the "Ontario Dehydrated Balanced Timothy Cubes" The "Balanced" matters. You can call the company at 1-877-289-3349 and talk to Eunice or Aurelio. They will help you get what you need. Tell them "Spike the Magnificent" in Olympia WA sent you!

--- In EquineCushings@..., "minihorse12" <thelittlebarnonwhiteoakfarm@...> wrote:

I called around to find these timothy cubes and they said on the phone that they were a Triple Crown product but when they put the bag in my car the label said Ontario Dehy Inc. Premium Timothy Cubes. My question is does it matter that it's not a Triple Crown product?
The guaranteed analysis is: Crude Protein (min) 9%, Crude Fiber (max) 35% and Moisture (Max) 12%. I just want to be sure.

Thanks so much!

Susan in CT
7-2012


Re: Clarified post Dandy and Rusty re-test results

Linda <PapBallou@...>
 

Well, it was certainly warmer when I tested them the first time (Aug). I wasn't aware I needed to factor the weather in, so I paid no attention to the temp that morning. We did have a warmer than usual October though, a *guess* would be around 40* give or take a few degrees.
A couple of previous posts:


<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/135891>

<http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/message/139434>



So, apparently the weather concept plays a factor, is there a formula to use in adjusting for the temp variation?
Not that I know of.


Is it then safe to assume if her ACTH number is good, then her Insulin must be too (in the colder months only)? That is if her diet is tight and I have all her other dicks in a row.
That is how I would approach it. Cold induced laminitis is a potential, but that truly seems to be related to the environment.

I understand your Leptin comment, I'm about as confused as I can get concerning Rusty's results. Any thoughts as to whether to leave him on 0.5 mg of Pergolide all the time or just through Dec?
You could leave him on it until April, take him off and test and see what his baseline is during the lowest time of the year. Then decide from there as to how to approach next fall.


Jan (who's pulling her hair out and kicking herself!Quite a sight to see actually!!) ~ Dandy and Rusty
I am too. It's always something.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Clarified post Dandy and Rusty re-test results

 

Thank you Linda, I appreciate your reply.

Well, it was certainly warmer when I tested them the first time (Aug). I wasn't aware I needed to factor the weather in, so I paid no attention to the temp that morning. We did have a warmer than usual October though, a *guess* would be around 40* give or take a few degrees.

So, apparently the weather concept plays a factor, is there a formula to use in adjusting for the temp variation? Why would I be testing her Insulin during the peak of the rise then, when it's always colder? Egad, that was stupid! LOL!! Her ACTH has improved, but now there's a good probability the Insulin reading isn't any good. So, technically we have no tools to see how were doing for our PPID/IR horses when the weather is cold, outside of assessing them physically. Is it then safe to assume if her ACTH number is good, then her Insulin must be too (in the colder months only)? That is if her diet is tight and I have all her other dicks in a row.

I understand your Leptin comment, I'm about as confused as I can get concerning Rusty's results. Any thoughts as to whether to leave him on 0.5 mg of Pergolide all the time or just through Dec? I could take him off at the end of Dec, but I can't test his G/I in the winter as it wont be accurate anyway (on the off chance he is IR with his current Leptin result). I'm at a loss as to what to do. Physically, he's had no signs of IR. Never had Laminitis, he's not obsessive about food either. No crest or any fat pads either. He's not overweight, nor too thin. He's never cranky and his feet are coming along really nice.

Jan (who's pulling her hair out and kicking herself!Quite a sight to see actually!!) ~ Dandy and Rusty
PNW (WA)
1/09
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/Jan%20Monstad/
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Jan%20Monstad/

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Linda" <PapBallou@...> wrote:

Jan -
But, as far as the elevated insulin with Dandy - what were the ambient temps when the blood was drawn? Temps below 40* are a confounding factor in assessing equine insulin.

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: Pookey's 'drinking problem'--need advice!

Saucier Kathy
 

Could ulcers cause a horse not to want to drink?

Just throwing that out there.

Kathy Saucier

Texas

2005


Re: Giving Glucosamine,...Bad idea?

gypsylassie
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., Jenny <roterhund@...> wrote:

Thanks, Laura - do you (or anyone) know what ingredients are in MovEase?
All the website says is "a proprietary blend" and I'd like to know ....

Hi Jenny, No, I don't know what's in it, but it has Dr. Kellon's "seal of approval" so to speak. It's made by a member here, so she know's what's what for our horses. Hope it helps.
Laura K. Chappie & Beau
N.IL.2011


Re: Giving Glucosamine,...Bad idea?

im_reich_der_tiere
 

Thanks, Laura - do you (or anyone) know what ingredients are in MovEase?
All the website says is "a proprietary blend" and I'd like to know what's
actually in it before I order it....thanks :-)

Jenny
Boise
Member since 2012

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 10:28 AM, gypsylassie <lcknie@...> wrote:

**

You can use plain chondroitin, hyaluronic acid, and MovEase (an
anti-inflammatory herbal blend). ...



Re: Pookey's 'drinking problem'--need advice!

Suzie MacDougall <walking_s_mac@...>
 

Just a thought are you sure he has not had a small choke episode that
has made him sore in the throat?

another thought Years ago I had a mare do similar we checked everything
until I left her with the vet - long story short she had a small piece
of wire that had embedded in her tougue and this was only found by
x-ray - and once excised she recovered very quickly. I mention this
because vet had never seem this before other than 1 refence in a text.
She was one of australias leading equine vets so plenty of experience -
this happened during a period of drought when all the horses where
eating close to the ground and all sorts of odd things where coming to
the surface - the wires was from an old netting fence.
Suzie in Oz 2000ish

On 11/11/2012 8:13 AM, lonestarquarterh wrote:



--- In EquineCushings@...
<mailto:EquineCushings%40yahoogroups.com>, LandWink@... wrote:

Blood panel to check kidney and liver functions?

Pat,

Thanks--kidney and liver are fine, all labs are normal, all vital
signs WNL, when I can get something in him (grass, and tubed water) he
passes normal manure, and urinates normally.



I am at a loss for why a seemingly healthy, happy horse would simply
quit drinking.



Lisa in TX
Pookey Bear
June 2010

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Butte vs. Banamine for Cushings horses

pposey09
 

In the "Avoid These Items" file, butte is noted for PPID horses. Is banamine a more acceptable alternative for PPID horses or should both be avoided equally?

Thank you,
Paula, MT
12/09


Re: When is it too much pergolide?

pposey09
 

Thank you Nancy. I will do so ASAP. A lot on my plate, so it may be a few days.

Again, Thanks.
Paula, MT
12/09

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Nancy" <threecatfarm@...> wrote:

Hi Paula

The best place to start to get things figured out is to update her Case History.


Re: Pookey's 'drinking problem'--need advice!

Nancy C
 

Lisa

Could he have a mouth or tooth problem?

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...

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