Date   

Re: to the experts...your opinion of this digestive product?

Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

Hi Mary,
Which products specifically are you referring to? There is no blanket recommendation to feed pre/probiotics just because you have a founder situation. They can be helpful if there are digestive issues such as loose manure/diarrhea, excessive gas, poor feed utilization.

Lavinia, Datne, George Too and Peanut
jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Heritage L/S Horse Pellets

Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

http://www.bigvfeeds.com/index.cfm?show=10&mid=127
Hi Marylee,
Contains rice bran, soy oil, alfalfa meal, added iron plus ingredients that are high-iron contaminated, starch is a whopping 10%(converts 100% to glucose) plus whatever the sugars are(unknown) and fat is minimum 6% (we look for max of 4%).
Not a good choice for an IR horse.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Heritage L/S Horse Pellets

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Marylee,

Just curious as to why you are considering this feed.....are you looking for a carrier for your supplements? Or, ?

If you type 174114 in the message # box there is a post from early December, 2012 about this product. The poster contacted Big V Feeds and was given an NSC of 16.2-16.5% for Heritage L/S. The product advertises that the max starch content is 10%. I would not feed this product to an IR horse just based on that starch content alone.


Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI 9/12

--- In EquineCushings@..., "maryleegrasso" wrote:

Is this a suitable feed for IR?

http://www.bigvfeeds.com/index.cfm?show=10&mid=127


Re: Magnesium

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Carla" wrote:

Hello,
Is, Magnesium Oxide, the preferred form of magnesium to feed to IR/Cushing horses? If so, what are the benefits over magnesium sulfate, magnesium carbonate, or magnesium L-aspartate?
Magnesium oxide - good bioavailability and price. Iron contamination may be a problem.

Magnesium sulfate - poor palatability. May be more likely to cause diarrhea.

Magnesium carbonate - good bioavailability and low iron. Requires a larger volume than mag oxide.

Magnesium L-aspartate - expensive. Requires a much larger volume.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: to the experts...your opinion of this digestive product?

Mary Horbianski
 

are these pro or pre biotics? and should I give them to a foundered pony 200lb
Mary
6/12
Mich
&#92;


Re: Have Pracend Tablets to sell

Mary Horbianski
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Carol" wrote:

Dear Group,

I recently joined the group with hopes of my mare making a recovery. We battled founder, colic, multiple respiratory infections, sweating, panting, weight loss and so on. I was soaking my hay, using the minerals, low starch pellets, etc...

On Friday, I lost my mare. She was very weak and was down in he stall, and had a temp of 104.6. I got her temp down to 102.3 but her coronet bands were bright pink so I felt like that was also a very bad sign.

We were able to successfully treat her founder in the past using Nitro Bid paste, Easy Ride (soft ride) boots and dealt with all the other symptoms... But we were not able to beat the disease.

We made the decision to put her down because she was so weak and I coudldn't watch her go on like that - she looked like a walking skeleton. My husband who was not out as much as I am couldn't believe I didn't put her down sooner... I saw some may miracles on this forum, I still had hope...

Anyway - now I have a box of pracend and it was fairly expensive for the whole box.

Would anyone be interested in buying what I have left perhaps at a discount? I hope this doesn't seem tacky but I thought if I can't use it maybe someone else can.

Many thanks to you all and I wish you all good luck with your horses.

Carol Maginn
carolmaginn@...
Carol, so sorry to hear about you loss, I also lost my horse 1 wk ago, we do all we can and sometimes it just isn't enough, my thoughts and prayers are with you while you go through this greiving period,


Re: Heritage L/S Horse Pellets

Pat
 

Sugars?

Pat

On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:47 AM, "maryleegrasso" <marylee@...> wrote:

Is this a suitable feed for IR?

http://www.bigvfeeds.com/index.cfm?show=10&mid=127

Thanks,
Marylee
Oct 2012, SE OK


Heritage L/S Horse Pellets

maryleegrasso <marylee@...>
 

Is this a suitable feed for IR?

http://www.bigvfeeds.com/index.cfm?show=10&mid=127

Thanks,
Marylee
Oct 2012, SE OK


Re: Have Pracend Tablets to sell

Carla
 

I am so sorry to hear about your loss.
Carla and Cupcake
WI, Dec 12

On Jan 11, 2013, at 5:30 AM, "Lorna" <briars@...> wrote:


Aww,Carol.
I'm so sorry.

Lorna in Ontario,Canada
ECIR Moderator 2002
*See What Works in Equine Nutrition*
http://www.ecirhorse.com/images/stories/Success_Story_3_-Ollies_Story__updated.pdf


I recently joined the group with hopes of my mare making a recovery. We battled founder, colic, multiple respiratory infections, sweating, panting, weight loss and so on. I was soaking my hay, using the minerals, low starch pellets, etc...

On Friday, I lost my mare.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Bugs are gone? ECIR Table of Contents FIXED

tomtriv <ThePitchforkPrincess@...>
 

Hi Group,
It is my mission to help people quickly find the documents they seek in the files sections of the groups so I came up with a document that has links to folders. Sadly it has been hit and miss with getting it all working properly. Just wanted to let you know FINALLY, the bugs are out of the Table of Contents (TOC). (I hope!)

Please if anyone gets a chance, try it out

http://tinyurl.com/6lsvppq

and see how it works for you. To avoid clogging up the messages, all feedback/suggestions/problems etc can be sent to me privately at ThePitchforkPrincess (at) gmail (dot) com.
Thanks to those of you who have been testing and helping with it.

- LeeAnne 03/04
Newmarket, Ont
ECIR Archivist

Are you in the Pergolide Database? http://tinyurl.com/yfahmda
ECIR Files Table of Contents: http://tinyurl.com/6lsvppq


To breed or not to breed

bzbusser <bzbusser@...>
 

Hi,
We currently have a 13 year old morgan mare who was recently diagnosed with cushings after a slight case of founder at a horse show. She does not have IR in fact her levels where beyond low when tested. My question is that she is a great mare and we bought her for breeding. Should cushing mares be bred? She is currently on prescend and doing wonderful. We just dont want to breed her if it is going to hurt her health. Thank you, Brianna


Re: Sunshine's recheck

merlin5clougher <janieclougher@...>
 

Hey, good news! Thanks for the update. Yes, the pasture thing is a bummer, but while you are recovering from your shoulder surgery (ouch!), you can let your fingers do the walking through some Paddock Paradises.

paddockparadise.wetpaint.com/


Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
EC mod/support

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/

--- In EquineCushings@..., "judyspitzer" wrote:

He went to the university for a recheck. Physical exam showed him to be of proper weight with decreased fatty deposits and decreased crest on neck. So everything is good!


Re: So happy I found you!

Mandy Woods
 

Hi!
Welcome to the group. Please sign your name! We have lots of tips for you to keep your 23 yo mare in good health and sound. You'll find by reading out files that our philosophy is DDT/E. This is DIAGNOSIS, DIET, TRIM and EXERCISE.

DIAGNOSIS is by bloodwork. What tests did your vet use to confirm Cushings aka PPID? What was the value, unit and lab normal? Cushings is a progressive condition treated by pergolide. The DIET we prescribe here also supports Cushings as many Cushings horses become Insulin Resistant. IR is diagnosed by having blood pulled for Insulin/Glucose and Leptin on a NON fasting horse. We want you to feed just soaked/drained grass hay/no grains the night before and the day of the blood pull.

DIET is low sugar/starch/fat with the minerals balanced to your hay's assay. Testing your hay to find out exactly you are feeding then balancing the minerals is critical to an IR horse. Feeding under 10% a day sugar/starch will keep most horses from laminitis. Some horses are super sensitive and need to go lower. Soaking hay for one hour in cold water can reduce sugars up to 30%! If your horse is foot sore, appears to have hock issues, is stiff etc, it could be laminitis. You did not mention any lameness which is good!

In the files you'll find one called Analysis of Various Feeds. This will fascinate you with the difference in each type of feed. I don’t know who makes your Cool and Calm but wouldn’t you like to know what the sugar/starch is in it? NO horse needs over 4% fat!

TRIM is a balanced foot with toes backed and heels lowered. Boots and pads for sore footed horses.

EXERCISE is the best way to reduce IR. Burn off those calories!

Texas has a large group of members that can help you source products you may need. If you look in the DATABASE (blue box on the eft side of your screen on ECIR main page) you find by states members who have signed up to help others. You arent alone!

Please read the files and ask questions as they pop up. Feed her the best hay and feed you can because she has Cushings. I would even start her on Vitamin E, loose iodized table salt, magnesium and freshly ground flax seed. These are the Temporary Minerals in the Emergency Diet but they will stay onboard when you balance her hay. These are good things to feed her.

We'd like you to join the ECH6 group - only takes a minute - and fill out the questionnaire (be sure to save it) so we can see the big picture. Like her breed! Then we can see what more we can do to help you. Start a journal on her now. Take photos and notes. Here's the link to ECH6

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/join

Mandy in VA
EC Primary Response
OCT 2003


Re: So happy I found you!

Maggie
 

I have a 23 y.o. Mare diagnosed with Cushing's shortly after purchase, in 2010. She is doing great, only one illness (Cellulitis) in 2011, responded well. She's in full board, I ride her 3 times a week, maintained on Cool and Calm low starch feed x2 day, unlimited hay, 1 flake alfalfa, blue algae, and Prascend. I am looking into retirement for her and would appreciate any tips. We live in Texas.
Hello and Welcome!  What's you first name, so we can address you by that? What's your mare's name?
So glad that she is doing well.  

The list philosophy is DDT+E. That stands for Diagnosos, Diet, Trim and Exercise.

Diagnosis: How was your mare diagnosed with Cushing's (aka PPID)?  The group recommends an eACTH, preferably sent to Cornell, if you are in the United States.  If you visit here:  http://www.ecirhorse.com/   you'll find lots of information on testing under the DDT overview tab.  Also, some PPID horses can be IR (insulin resistant), so we also recommend that an insulin, glucose and leptin levels are drawn when the ACTH is done.  These labs should be done on a NON-fasting horse.  Details can be found under that DDT overview tab.

Diet: The group recommends a low sugar, starch (under 10% sugar + starch) and under 6% fat diet. That's grass hay with sugar+starch under 10% and minerals balanced to the hay analysis, plus vitamin E, ground flax seed and Iodized salt as outlined in the emergency diet here:  http://www.ecirhorse.com/index.php/ddt-overview/diet . You can send your hay here: http://www.equi-analytical.com/ for analysis.  If it comes back greater than 10% sugar + starch, we recommend soaking the hay in hot water for 30 minutes or cold water for one hour to remove up to about 30% of the sugar content.  Drain the hay where she can't get to the drained water.  IR horses should not receive any grass, grain or treats such as apples, carrots, etc. Until you get your hay analyzed, use the emergency diet This is just to be used until you get your hay analysis back. Also, no red/brown salt/mineral blocks. White salt blocks only. The red/brown salt blocks have iron in them and most IR horses are already iron overloaded. And they also contain minerals, so it would be difficult to balance the minerals in your diet not knowing how much your horse consumes of this and exactly what is in it. Some also contain molasses--a no-no for IR horses. Also, many IR horse do not tolerate alfalfa.  Is that Wellness Calm and Cool that your are feeding?  There are not many "bagged" feeds that are appropriate for IR horses.  I am not familiar with this feed so will let someone else address it. 

Trim: So important, but a proper trim is often the last thing to fall into place. It's heels lowered and toes back, so that the hoof capsule closely hugs the coffin bone. You can join our sister site EChoof and post pictures of your mare's feet and one of the hoof gurus can take a look and tell you if you have a proper trim in place and will make recommendations for you or your farrier/trimmer. There is a file there that explains how to take hoof pictures. And here's another good site that shows how take them: http://www.all-natural-horse-care.com/good-hoof-photos.html

Exercise: The best IR buster there is, so it's great that you are able to ride her 3x/week!  Even after you "retire" her she will still need exercise to stay in shape and not become IR if she isn't already.  You'll know that when you get your labs back.


You'll have lots of questions--just ask.  We're here to help!  There's lots of great info in the files so that should keep you busy reading for awhile!  We ask that you sign your name (first is fine), the date you joined and your general location, like in my signature below whenever you post.

Maggie, Chancey and Spiral in VA
March 2011
EC Primary Response
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory4/files/maggie%20in%20virginia/


Re: Sunshine's recheck

Chanda
 

With 55 acres of pasture, perhaps you can find someone who will cut it for hay for you. [You can pay straight up, but the usual is a split with you keeping part and the hay guy keeping part.] Just let it grow, have it cut (I think there are recommendations on the list as to the best time of day for cutting, or check the safer grass website, they probably have the info) and baled, then test it; if it tests good, use it for your horses, if it doesn't sell it and buy some that does.
And look into the pasture paradise tracks (think that's what they are called, basically a fence corridor around the pasture) for exercise.
Chanda
MT 9/04

--- In EquineCushings@..., "judyspitzer" wrote:

I still have trouble wrapping my head around the fact that there will be no pasture for him in the future forever. We have 55 acres of beautiful pasture and a small muddy "dry" lot.


Sunshine's recheck

judyspitzer <judyspitzer@...>
 

He went to the university for a recheck. Physical exam showed him to be of proper weight with decreased fatty deposits and decreased crest on neck. So everything is good! I am finally getting him and my other horse to eat the customized supplements with peanut butter. (both are on the same diet for convenience). I still have trouble wrapping my head around the fact that there will be no pasture for him in the future forever. We have 55 acres of beautiful pasture and a small muddy "dry" lot. I have been consistently riding him increasing his work which he has taken to fine. But, next week I have a shoulder replacement surgery and will not be able to ride for a minimum of 6 weeks, probably more. I hope he doesn't lose condition during this time as he is not out roaming the fields. We have plans for a big camping/riding season ahead. Thank you to everyone for the wonderful help and moral boosters along the way!


Re: History lesson

Linda <PapBallou@...>
 

I remember watching a movie about it!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0157704/

Linda
EC Primary Response
West Coast
May 2004


Re: History lesson

 

Triple that!!!! Can't wait to finish reading it. Thank you Dr. Kellon.
Kim Lee in NW PA who is 46 and a type 1 diabetic now for 31 years and
counting :-))).
3/2010

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 3:50 PM, merlin5clougher <janieclougher@...>wrote:

**


Hear, hear!!!

Thanks for this, Dr. Kellon.

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
EC mod/support


http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/



There are many out there who would disparage science and medicine but if
you look at the history it's pretty amazing how far we have come in a short
generation.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Magnesium

Carla
 

Hello,
Is, Magnesium Oxide, the preferred form of magnesium to feed to IR/Cushing horses? If so, what are the benefits over magnesium sulfate, magnesium carbonate, or magnesium L-aspartate?
Thanks!
Carla and Cupcake
WI, Dec.12


Re: So happy I found you!

merlin5clougher <janieclougher@...>
 

Hi, and welcome to the list! There will be more messages to follow, but first I would urge you to put together and upload a case history of your mare. This can be done over on EC History 6:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/?yguid=466307243

You have to join, but it only takes a moment. Follow the directions on the homepage to download the case history template; then fill it out and upload it into your own folder.

The more we know about your mare, the better able people are to post relevant information for you.

Sign your posts with your name, general location, and date of joining. Delete most of the post you are responding to.

Ask any and all questions.

And again - welcome!

Jaini (BVSc),Merlin,Maggie,Gypsy
BC09
EC mod/support

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory/files/Jaini%20Clougher%2C%20Smithers%20BC/


..I have a 23 y.o. Mare diagnosed with Cushing's shortly after purchase, in 2010. ....

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