Date   

Re: Magnesium

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "jannepauli" wrote:

And what about Magnesium citrate?
Same as magnesium aspartate.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: Heritage L/S Horse Pellets

Saucier Kathy
 

Hi Marylee. Thanks Kathy B. for finding my post from December. Below are
the exact words from the person I contacted at Big V. I'm using it for my
NON IR horse because he is an easy keeper and we don't want to take him down
a road to becoming IR. So I'm doing it as a precaution. But if he was IR,
I wouldn't touch this feed. They list starch on their label but that is not
what makes up the total when sugars are added to it. Also notice they
determine their NSC from what each ingredient averages. It sounds like they
do not test each batch of finished feed.

You might look for a Triple Crown dealer for the TC Lite. Triple Crown
dealers can also get the Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes which have been
formulated for IR and approved by this group. This can be the whole diet
even.

Kathy Saucier

Texas 2005



The NSC for Heritage L/S Feed is 16.20% to 16.50%. There is some variation
in the ingredients; however, it is formulated to a max. 16.50%.

As for the Ethanol Soluble Carbohydrate, I don't have good ingredient data
for it. It has been a little harder to find accurate ESC data on ingredients
because of the lack of request for it. I have not tested for the ESC on the
feed because you are the first person to ask for it. For most people, it is
learning what the NSC is and to understand what it is used for instead of
counting Calories (this is another term that is missed used). I you have any
more questions, I would be glad to try and answer.

Terry Hays

Big V Feeds Inc.


Re: Magnesium

Lorna <briars@...>
 


Re: Magnesium

Marianne Herzberger
 

And what about Magnesium citrate?


Marianne | The Netherlands | EC 2011
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory5/files/Marianne/

--- In EquineCushings@..., "drkellon" wrote:

Magnesium oxide - good bioavailability and price. Iron contamination may be a problem.

Magnesium sulfate - poor palatability. May be more likely to cause diarrhea.

Magnesium carbonate - good bioavailability and low iron. Requires a larger volume than mag oxide.

Magnesium L-aspartate - expensive. Requires a much larger volume.


Re: New Member help please

Nancy C
 

Hi Judy

Re: the mag - What is the Calcium number? We need to make sure the calcium:magnesium ratio is 2:1 or 1.5:1

Your insulin could still be high due to cold weather.

Jiaogulan - The rec when syringing in is to start with a 1/4 tsp 2xs a day per 500 pounds body weight. Your starting routine looks good but you may need to go a higher if you don't see improvement.

Look to also reviewing his trim for help with his foot soreness.

You are doing good work for this cute little guy!

Nancy C in NH
ECIR Moderator 2003

NewEnglandEquineBalance@...


Re: Skin problems

Chanda
 

From your basic description, it sounds like rain rot.
Chanda
MT 9/04

--- In EquineCushings@..., Martha Koehnlein wrote:

My horse has developed bumps over his back and sides. I washed him today with Betadine and after letting the soap soften them, the bumps could be removed with my fingers and all the hair comes out too so now there are several places where there is no hair.
Martha & Baron
Nov. 2012, Florida


Skin problems

Martha Koehnlein <koeh2337@...>
 

My horse has developed bumps over his back and sides. I washed him today
with Betadine and after letting the soap soften them, the bumps could be
removed with my fingers and all the hair comes out too so now there are
several places where there is no hair. Does anyone know what this could
be? He has EPM & Cushings and is being treated for both.
Martha & Baron
Nov. 2012, Florida


Re: To breed or not to breed

Chanda
 

I wouldn't breed her. You already know she is Cushings, so that predisposes her offspring to likely be Cushings as well. Not a guarantee the offspring will be, but a very good chance. I know of a few people that bred mares before Cushings diagnosis, kept the offspring and low and behold those offspring eventually became Cushings as well.
Chanda
MT 9/04

--- In EquineCushings@..., "bzbusser" wrote:

Hi,
We currently have a 13 year old morgan mare who was recently diagnosed with cushings after a slight case of founder at a horse show. She does not have IR in fact her levels where beyond low when tested. My question is that she is a great mare and we bought her for breeding. Should cushing mares be bred? She is currently on prescend and doing wonderful. We just dont want to breed her if it is going to hurt her health. Thank you, Brianna


New Member help please

minipop10 <stbn5108@...>
 

I am trying to update my files and post. Please bear with me. I currently need dosing help with J-herb for my 375lb (large) mini, Poppy. I have read the files and would just like confirmation that I am on the right track for a mini of his size. I am thinking wondering if 1/8 tsp twice daily 20 min prior to breakfast and dinner is appropriate. I have checked his gums (pale) and understand the need to increase the dose in small increments.

I am also concerned that new insulin levels taken on 1/3/13 (129.29) have not changed from his 8/12 result. We started the emergency diet on 12/1/12. He is still very sore.
Hay analysis is back from Equi-Analytical and some of the values are as follows:

ESC 5.5
Starch .2
NFC 15.9
crude protein 13.8
Iron 460 (a concern and being addressed by my mineral balancer)
Mg .29.

I stopped soaking his hay on 1/3/13 after receiving these results. It appears as though Poppy is slightly worse since we've stopped soaking the hay. We will begin soaking again.

Not sure whether I should give Mg supplement. What does this group recommend based on the hay value?

Thank you.
Judy
NH
11/12

/Users/judy2/Documents/Poppy.doc

(hope you can open this)


Re: to the experts...your opinion of this digestive product?

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., Mary Horbianski wrote:

are these pro or pre biotics? and should I give them to a foundered pony 200lb
If you are talking about Ration Plus and Forco, they are prebiotics. There's no reason to give them unless the horse has a digestive problem.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: To breed or not to breed

Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

We currently have a 13 year old morgan mare who was recently diagnosed with cushings after a slight case of founder at a horse show. She does not have IR in fact her levels where beyond low when tested. My question is that she is a great mare and we bought her for breeding. Should cushing mares be bred? She is currently on prescend and doing wonderful.
Hi Brianna,
Welcome to the list. We need a bit more info from you so we ask that you join our sister list ECHistory6 and put up a case history for your mare.

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHistory6/

Breeding a PPID mare is not recommended as you will need to stop the Prascend/pergolide at some point to allow proper milk production to occur and this means the PPID will be uncontrolled during this period.
Also, there is no such thing as a "slight" case of founder. Founder is a serious issue as it means that the coffin bone has detached from its laminar connections and the hoof capsule has changed position relative to the bony column. It takes 6-9 months for the new connections to regrow properly IF the trim has been correctly addressed and there is no additional damage occuring during that time period.

We follow a protocol called DDT/E. This is shorthand for Diagnosis, Diet, Trim, Exercise. It is like the legs of a stool - if all are the same length and securely attached, the stool is stable. If not, it wobbles.

DIAGNOSIS: Thru bloodwork. How was the PPID(Cushings) diagnosed? How was the IR tested for? Sounds like the test results may be questionable as values that are that low suggest the samples were degraded or not drawn properly. PPID is treated thru meds while IR is managed with diet. Pregnancy will induce a degree of IR so that is also a consideration, esp if there is uncontrolled PPID for a time due to stopping the meds.
You say she is doing wonderful - this is great. Has there been follow-up testing to assess whether her bloodwork is also wonderful?

DIET: Low sugar/starch/fat forage-based with minerals balanced to the forage analysis. This is a sensible diet for any horse and is especially important for IR/PPID horses to keep them healthy. Morgans are a poster-child breed for IR so keeping her diet tightly controlled will have benefits even if she is not currently IR.

TRIM: A balanced foot with the toes backed and heels low. In the case of founder, it is extremely important to make suer the trim realigns the hoof capsule with the new position of the bony colum within. Please post pics in the ECHistory6 photos section and the hoof gurus can help determine if your mare's trim is optimal to help her grow out the founder or not. Here is the link to taking good pics:

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ECHoof/files/%202How%20to%20take%20hoof%20photos.htm/

EXERCISE: Best IR buster there is but never force a foundered/laminitic/sore horse to move. Be esp careful if there are any NSAID's being used as these will mask pain and allow a horse to do too much too soon, thereby tearing the already fragile laminar connections even more.

We ask that you sign your posts with your name, general location and date of joining. This helps us to point you to resources in your area. Ask any questions as they come up - we're here to help.

Lavinia, Dante, Georgwe Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: To breed or not to breed

martha williams
 

Sorry - forgot to sign
M. Williams NYC/Hudson Valley, NY '08

On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 11:51 AM, martha williams <mjwd444@...> wrote:

I don't know if this is OT or not - and I certainly don't wish
to be critical. But - with 150,000+ "unwanted" horses who
desperately need care and don't have it - why not consider
taking one of them, and enjoying the horse you already have,
without breeding yet another?


Re: To breed or not to breed

martha williams
 

I don't know if this is OT or not - and I certainly don't wish
to be critical. But - with 150,000+ "unwanted" horses who
desperately need care and don't have it - why not consider
taking one of them, and enjoying the horse you already have,
without breeding yet another?


Re: to the experts...your opinion of this digestive product?

Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

Hi Mary,
Which products specifically are you referring to? There is no blanket recommendation to feed pre/probiotics just because you have a founder situation. They can be helpful if there are digestive issues such as loose manure/diarrhea, excessive gas, poor feed utilization.

Lavinia, Datne, George Too and Peanut
jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Heritage L/S Horse Pellets

Lavinia <dnlf@...>
 

http://www.bigvfeeds.com/index.cfm?show=10&mid=127
Hi Marylee,
Contains rice bran, soy oil, alfalfa meal, added iron plus ingredients that are high-iron contaminated, starch is a whopping 10%(converts 100% to glucose) plus whatever the sugars are(unknown) and fat is minimum 6% (we look for max of 4%).
Not a good choice for an IR horse.

Lavinia, Dante, George Too and Peanut
Jan 05, RI
EC Support Team


Re: Heritage L/S Horse Pellets

Kathy Brinkerhoff
 

Hi Marylee,

Just curious as to why you are considering this feed.....are you looking for a carrier for your supplements? Or, ?

If you type 174114 in the message # box there is a post from early December, 2012 about this product. The poster contacted Big V Feeds and was given an NSC of 16.2-16.5% for Heritage L/S. The product advertises that the max starch content is 10%. I would not feed this product to an IR horse just based on that starch content alone.


Kathy Brinkerhoff

SE/WI 9/12

--- In EquineCushings@..., "maryleegrasso" wrote:

Is this a suitable feed for IR?

http://www.bigvfeeds.com/index.cfm?show=10&mid=127


Re: Magnesium

Eleanor Kellon, VMD
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Carla" wrote:

Hello,
Is, Magnesium Oxide, the preferred form of magnesium to feed to IR/Cushing horses? If so, what are the benefits over magnesium sulfate, magnesium carbonate, or magnesium L-aspartate?
Magnesium oxide - good bioavailability and price. Iron contamination may be a problem.

Magnesium sulfate - poor palatability. May be more likely to cause diarrhea.

Magnesium carbonate - good bioavailability and low iron. Requires a larger volume than mag oxide.

Magnesium L-aspartate - expensive. Requires a much larger volume.

Eleanor in PA
www.drkellon.com
EC Co-owner
Feb 2001


Re: to the experts...your opinion of this digestive product?

Mary Horbianski
 

are these pro or pre biotics? and should I give them to a foundered pony 200lb
Mary
6/12
Mich
&#92;


Re: Have Pracend Tablets to sell

Mary Horbianski
 

--- In EquineCushings@..., "Carol" wrote:

Dear Group,

I recently joined the group with hopes of my mare making a recovery. We battled founder, colic, multiple respiratory infections, sweating, panting, weight loss and so on. I was soaking my hay, using the minerals, low starch pellets, etc...

On Friday, I lost my mare. She was very weak and was down in he stall, and had a temp of 104.6. I got her temp down to 102.3 but her coronet bands were bright pink so I felt like that was also a very bad sign.

We were able to successfully treat her founder in the past using Nitro Bid paste, Easy Ride (soft ride) boots and dealt with all the other symptoms... But we were not able to beat the disease.

We made the decision to put her down because she was so weak and I coudldn't watch her go on like that - she looked like a walking skeleton. My husband who was not out as much as I am couldn't believe I didn't put her down sooner... I saw some may miracles on this forum, I still had hope...

Anyway - now I have a box of pracend and it was fairly expensive for the whole box.

Would anyone be interested in buying what I have left perhaps at a discount? I hope this doesn't seem tacky but I thought if I can't use it maybe someone else can.

Many thanks to you all and I wish you all good luck with your horses.

Carol Maginn
carolmaginn@...
Carol, so sorry to hear about you loss, I also lost my horse 1 wk ago, we do all we can and sometimes it just isn't enough, my thoughts and prayers are with you while you go through this greiving period,


Re: Heritage L/S Horse Pellets

Pat
 

Sugars?

Pat

On Jan 12, 2013, at 9:47 AM, "maryleegrasso" <marylee@...> wrote:

Is this a suitable feed for IR?

http://www.bigvfeeds.com/index.cfm?show=10&mid=127

Thanks,
Marylee
Oct 2012, SE OK

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